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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


VirtualKitten
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Yes I saw that Quarrel and thanks for the nice clear screen shot . I have been trying different vertex groups other than shoulder . The problem at moment is with elbows . Now this automatic weights had this figured out until we got the teeth head and eyes working . The options I added from it didn't help , but one of them was not there in 2.92  the one about vertex nodes. controlling whether it paints the node or not like a U. I think its been moved to the main window which is much nicer position for it .
69690980d814da9de07d6ab998ea73f5.png

 

I may have the wrong understanding here let me explain . The model sits at rest no sharps or strange forms .I move the elbow and bazingo they appear out of hands . Aquila gave me some tools and ideas to select each node which was working and press N to see what vertex group it was grouped with . Now  I checked these many times and don't have elbow on them  and cant understand the effect  of the elbow on these sharps from fingers.

Surely I should be able to click on them in weight paint mode and they disappear? Is it something I don't understand?

 

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Posted (edited)

1: Rotate both rig and model so that it was better aligned along the X axis: Done.

2: Position both rig and model central to Blender global X axis: Done.

3: Reposition bones so the the left side match better the bones on the right side: Done.

4: Reposition all the bones in the head to better fit the model: Done.

5: Transplant tail from earlier mesh to complete model: Done

6: One by one select all bones from mHead down to mTail6, including "wings" (arms and hand bones) bones and re-assign weights using Assign Automatic From Bones. Rotate each to check deformation and weight paint where necessary: Done.

7: Check weights of head bones and paint if necessary. Check deformations when rotating:  FAIL !

 

 OMG ! That head ...........I started correcting weights then noticed among other things that almost all of the head is weighted heavily to mFaceRoot. Checked with the Avatar head weights and this just seemed wrong. see images below.

Vertices weighted to the mFaceRoot  vertex group of the Dragon :mFaceRoot_Dragon-min.thumb.png.1e7262060a23bbf86422893b1a602ed6.png

Notice that some of the teath are incorrectly weighted but that is a minor issue.

Compared to vertices weighted to mFaceRoot of an Avatar :mFaceRoot_Avatar-min.thumb.png.f3f4bed78cec947edd1ff95d140dbac9.png

 

I tried removing the MFace Root vertex group from the head vertices intending to re-paint........ but that caused lots of other issues..............

My lack of understanding of rigging is becoming very frustrating at the moment.

The only thing I can think of is to select all the vertices of the head and Remove them from all groups. Then start weighting the bones one by one again.......... but that will have to wait untill tomorrow.

 

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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8 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

I tried removing the MFace Root vertex group from the head vertices intending to re-paint........ but that caused lots of other issues..............

mFaceRoot seems to be getting used in place of mHead in the LL-supplied sample rig. As odd a practice as that seems, you're going to have to use some bone as the basis for head movement when something isn't 100% an ear or an eyebrow. Anything you take off mFaceRoot will have to go onto mHead (or mSkull, which even LL doesn't weight to AFAIK).

FYI: There is no official LL Bento head in-world. The weighting in the LL-supplied Bento-rigged example avatar is just that: an example (and it doesn't take Fitted Mesh bones into account, either!). The system avatar is still the old, pre-Bento mesh.

 

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21 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

The model sits at rest no sharps or strange forms .I move the elbow and bazingo they appear out of hands . Aquila gave me some tools and ideas to select each node which was working and press N to see what vertex group it was grouped with . Now  I checked these many times and don't have elbow on them  and cant understand the effect  of the elbow on these sharps from fingers.

The spikes "appear" because some vertices are weighted wrong. So the correctly-weighted vertices around them move properly, but the vertices with errors stay motionless and get left behind. Aquila told you one way to see how the weighs are wrong -- which is kind of useful -- but that way doesn't tell you what the weights should be and it doesn't let you fix them.

The fact that moving an elbow made the errors show up does not mean you need to add more elbow weight to the error points. You need to figure out what the weights should have been in the first place, and that's often hard because it's usually a combination of two or three and it will be different for every bad vertex. Fortunately, you can often simply copy all the weights from the nearest correct vertex and that will work fine. If you have done no manual painting or editing, you may also be able to fix it by recalculating automatic weights for single bones (though again I'd warn you to SAVE FIRST in case you accidentally recalculate EVERY bone and erase all your weight fixes).

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Posted (edited)

@Quarrel Kukulcan LOL I HAVE BEEN MOVING PARTS ABOUT TO CHECK FOR THESE SHARPS AND THINK HAS REMOVED ALL . 

I am pretty much ready to animate . all parts seem to move with out sharpies however some movements  are not clean and gradual  curves  saying that neither is an elbow ,but that may be to much movement and the models cant cope with it under current software provision.

NOT THAT SIMULATOR WILL ALLOW AN UPLOAD OF THIS THROWING EVER TYPE OF VERBOSE TECHNICAL ERROR MESSAGE IT CAN COME UP WITH WHICH AS YET KNOW ONE CAN INFORM ME WHAT THEY MEAN IN THE MANY EXCELANT LSL GROUPS ?

I have to wonder why the upload of this to SL is being thwarted ? I have had every unreasonable error message the uploader could fire at me involving MAV_PASSING_ERROR and LLFloaterModelPreview::setModelPhysicsFeeErrorStatus(13107200 : ) 

I have already had a discussion in DM with @Aquila Kytori I explained clearly. This has also been explained to secondlife Support email address. Would you like me to explain it in public with all the information i have in email? Perhaps it might help to get real? 

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

YAY! No more Spikes

514062735_Dragonpose2.0-min.thumb.png.baf7c304d52b85b1558160141cf73b0b.png

 

1: After watching one of Medue's videos I again repositioned and shortened by quite alot many of the head bones.

2: I Isolated the head and removed all vertex groups from this part of the mesh.

3: Isolated teeth and tongue for weighting separately later on.

4:  Isolated the lower part or the head which is suppose to move with the mFaceJaw bone. (see first image below)

5: With only the relevant bones selected and in the vertex select, (masking mode) I assigned Automatic Weights from Bones to the the lower part of the head.

6: Repeated step 5 for the upper part of the head,  and for the tongue.

7: The Upper and lower teeth were each selected separately and assigned weights of 1.00 to the relevant vertex group.

8: Checked for main bone rotations and smoothed out where necessary by hand painting the weights.

Eyes, skin between wing bones and more smoothing to do..........

 

Notes on weighting,

Assigning Automatic Weight from Bones to the lower jaw area, with the rest of the model masked out and only the relevant bones visible :

Masking.thumb.png.aeb4acd254a2f3d8ef7a1bf7570b6d97.png

Result is no "leaking of weights to other parts of the head :

Masking2.thumb.png.798759ac834f3b21c4e9f94ae73910ce.png

 

The result of not Isolating (masking out) the rest of the head and bones is shown below. With MfaceLipLowercenter selected note how the front part of the gums and teeth are also weighted.

Screenshot_3.thumb.png.c0be0f9fa53be629a29c26f81140afa8.png

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

Yes its good Aquila apart from the X mirroring not working .

Check which dragon you are using for animating.

The dragon facing along the Y axis is for animation. This is the dragon that was rotated so that it is using Z forwards and Y up. The rotations were applied and then the dragon was rotated again to be facing along the Y axis but this time the rotations were not applied.

In the .gif below notice that the dragon is looking along the Y axis :

2093608069_DragonX_mirror-min.gif.42c67b0d475941b4962e395ce70e5078.gif

 

When using this "Y facing" dragon the X_Mirror works fine.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

how do i insert all bone positions into key frame. When I select all using 'A' it selects everything and when I press I i get another box that asks which groups after saying yes to all it inserts only mNeck not all the bones . Thanks for info about Auto IK mirroring I had not seen that.

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

Also @Aquila Kytor , when  when i scan with Avastar it says rig is not complete mTorso has undefined parent mSpine2 . Avastar In World Support have told me that the hold rig needs to be rebuilt despite it importing into Second Life perfectly.

Edited by VirtualKitten
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