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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


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I am frustratd with Blender 2.912 its pretty cool except for rigging . The main problem is edits to bones in edit mode dont  reflect to the same change in Pose mode and visa versa . This is really frustrating and you have to know secret commands  to reset this pose as a default pose and all this stupid stuff that it was really not meant for this use in blender . Why cant the edits you do in either before adding weights  move accross TO THE OTHER MODE ITS EXTREEMLY SILLY  . This becmes a problem when your moving bone tails in edit and require a thin bone for teath you cant prioperly scale he bone in edit mode like you can in pose mode . I have not found out why not. You then end up with two completely differant bone positions to wahats in POSE and EDIT mode cant the blender team fix this?

 

DISCUSS :)

Edited by VirtualKitten
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mFaceRoot seems to be getting used in place of mHead in the LL-supplied sample rig. As odd a practice as that seems, you're going to have to use some bone as the basis for head movement when something

When in Weight paint mode if you enable  Vertex selection and then hold down the Shift key and select a vertex you can see which vertex groups and weights it is assigned to. Hold down the Shft key to

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1. This is a Blender issue, not a Second Life issue.

2. An armature is a foundation. It's much less of a headache to set it all correctly in place before you start using it, just like you need to get your mesh right before you UV unwrap and (to a lesser extent) get your UV right before you texture.

3. Changes in edit mode do carry over to pose mode. Changes in pose mode do not carry back to edit mode because if they did, you wouldn't be able to pose anything.

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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Posted (edited)

Yes @Quarrel Kukulcan I am aware its a blender issue. The  armature is so frustratng is is really rubbish the WSWIG designs call for replication in each window for consistansy Edit Window does not reflect POSE they are both stupidly different editing on one does not change the other on the same model in the same open document this is crazy who is designing this stuff . Its the same model same bone how can it be differant orientation and size  . SL groups suggest using rest position but this is no proper answer as they do not map over with a lot f editing and is really not what this was implemented for  . They do not map in any direction in 2.912 on my model and is dis-jointed and un joined up approach . Its causing a real headache positioning teath and smaller bones . If I slim bones in pose mode they are the same thick bones as they was in edit mode . The edit mode ones cannot be flattented on y axis the same as in POSE mode it just doesnt affect them at all. If they mapped the POSE would be same as EDIT you would be able to pose as you now can . But currently the two veiws are not conected in a intelegent manner.

 

DISCUSS :)  

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

@Quarrel Kukulcan i have to disagree with you see below in 2.912

1) Pressed S+ Y in Edit: https://gyazo.com/ed7f1bcf69d5c57538c8205dccb6b6ac.mp4

825eac701985fea2c556702c7185cc78.png

Just wobbles see link above.

2) Pressed S + Y in Pose Mode https://i.gyazo.com/6a7277a1788392019bf8484911464920.mp4
 
db353395cfecd98c9bb2f82d95b475e6.png

 

Thins down see link above in POSE and OBJECT.

3) Switch between Edit and Pose editor: https://gyazo.com/26e4e56d4d50c1c9b97415deead0a8de.mp4

Does not change edit mode bone from Pose mode

I know how to reset a pose to  edit POSE

a)  Alt +R reset all rotations

b)  Alt + G reset all translations

c)  Alt + S reset all scales.

Its a mystery or secret how to  reset a  edit  to a POSE?

 

Now both of these seem a cludge

DISCUSS :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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7 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

Its a mystery or secret how to  reset a  edit  to a POSE?

Edit Mode is for setting where bones start.

Pose Mode is for setting an alternate, temporary position where you want to move bones to so you can take a nicely-arranged snapshot.

It makes no sense to want the second kind of change to affect the first kind. That's like saying you want your personal mailing address to change to the supermarket every time you go shopping.

 

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4 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I still cant save pose back to Edit @Quarrel Kukulcan@Q LindenThere doesnt seem a way I can find to do this I really dont know why. Pose an Object are updated and Edit is left completely wrong is this a bug  in blender , if so are they adressing it ?

Blender have there own forums, you're not going to get any traction declaring this a bug here.

 

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8 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I still cant save pose back to Edit @Quarrel Kukulcan@Q LindenThere doesnt seem a way I can find to do this I really dont know why. Pose an Object are updated and Edit is left completely wrong is this a bug  in blender , if so are they adressing it ?

I don't know how many more ways I can say this. It's not a bug. It's how it's supposed to work. You're trying to use the tool wrong.

Edit Mode sets where the bones really are. Where they start, before any animation happens. The "rest pose".

Pose Mode is for making animations that get added to the rest pose for display purposes but don't alter it.

(That said, I have no problem when I use "Pose -> Apply -> Apply Pose as Rest Pose" except for bone octagons no longer looking like scaling squashes & stretches them, but that's because bones are never scaled in the rest pose.

EDIT: Wait. Did you try Apply as Rest Pose? I thought you said you did but I don't see it in your posts now.)

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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Yes but this does not answer how to get the pose back into edit mode you can go the other way why not back as you cant edit bones flat in edit mode only in pose mode as they interface with mesh they need to be correct size to match the mesh they are influencing . When there is more than one piece of mesh in area it needs to be  accurate. If i make these changes how can i get them into edit mode? 

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Posted (edited)

i tried but cant squish them flat like i do in pose mode. I can use S+ Y to squish flat in pose mode not in edit mode in 2.92 what do i change?

 

f52b66ce09062ed95cd99c856eee64a9.png

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

its just a mess of bones with out names can anyone help please? download it and add them if you can or find a link with them already on please ? There must be a diagram with them all printed on it .

Edited by VirtualKitten
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25 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Wait, are you telling us that your problem was the bone representation mode?

Ye i need the bones name as i need to know how they look to orient to my dragon head. But cant find a picture of the bones named even on a human head or dragon can anyone help? Am just leaning rigging so really need you all here  kisses

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44 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

Ye i need the bones name as i need to know how they look to orient to my dragon head. But cant find a picture of the bones named even on a human head or dragon can anyone help? Am just leaning rigging so really need you all here  kisses

Rotate them around a bit and find out which parts move. Then you'll have their functions fired out in no time.

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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

Ye i need the bones name as i need to know how they look to orient to my dragon head. But cant find a picture of the bones named even on a human head or dragon can anyone help?

I may be misunderstanding what you are asking for but if it is how to see the names of all the bones at once  :

Bone_names-min.thumb.png.099f09396ab78216e6e1c2c5574517c4.png

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Bento Head bones :

Bento_head_Bones-min.thumb.png.58f59b0d6276e8a8c798ea5d1d41c234.png

Note: The layer the relevant head bones is on is outlined in red in the screenshot above.

 

You can get the full Bento model from the Machinimatrix webpage :

https://blog.machinimatrix.org/avatar-workbench/

 

or download the file used in the screenshot from :

https://pasteall.org/blend/5f8bda67a3d4473bad1d55d3874d3aaf

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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There are also text descriptions at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Skeleton_Guide#Face. It's a good way to see what does and doesn't exist so you can make a checklist of what you want to use.

Another important list is later on the same page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Skeleton_Guide#Sliders_that_affect_Bones. Why is it important? Because face shape sliders will also move Bento bones. In fact, a few bones only exist to ensure that all the face shape sliders work as expected on human faces, and generally aren't ever animated (like mFaceTeethLower and mFaceTeethUpper). If you don't care about letting people have full customization control over the face you're rigging, you can leave a few of those bones out. However, most of the bones that are used for face animation are also affected by head & face shape sliders, so there will almost certainly be some distortion or misalignment between what your model looks like in Blender and what it looks like in SL unless you Edit Shape in-world and set all your face shape sliders to their neutral values from that second list. (If your eyeballs bug out, this is why.)

You may also need to use the "Lock scale if joint position defined" checkbox during upload. This stops some shape sliders from affecting bones you've slid to different positions from the Bento default.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. Rigging a face in SL is hard.

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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35 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

would it be possible for you to zoom the areas into four pictures to the images are clear

????

Download one of the two files I linked you to and then you can take the exact screenshots that you need.

The second file will open exactly as you see in the screenshot above. 🙂

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