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28 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

It can be a thin line between creating a fantasy to entertain, and breaking someone's heart.

ย  ย No.

ย  ย If you've gone as far as to reach for someone's heart through dishonesty, you're not crossing a 'thin line'; that's being a deceptive jerk. To most people past the age of 7 that's generally considered common sense.ย 

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1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

You can't have it both ways nor can you insist others see SL the same way you do.

True, everyone has a different approach and everyone needs to respect this. Also there is a saying, "hindsight is 20/20" We aught not to blame others for not seeing in the moment what has become obvious in hindsight.

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1 hour ago, Orwar said:

ย  ย No.

ย  ย If you've gone as far as to reach for someone's heart through dishonesty, you're not crossing a 'thin line'; that's being a deceptive jerk. To most people past the age of 7 that's generally considered common sense.ย 

I think he may have been referring to situations where one person is not roleplaying and the other is without the first person's knowledge of any "roleplay". It's not an uncommon occurrence and it isn't always easy to tell when someone is "just roleplaying".

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23 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

it isn't always easy to tell

Also two people can be roleplaying, then one starts to take it more serious, and they other might not realize a change is taking place right away. It is all trickier than some want to admit.

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/27/2021 at 1:54 PM, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This came up in another thread and instead of piggybacking off it I thought I'd start a new thread.ย ย 

SL is a place where you can be who you want to be right?ย  You can be a female and have a male avatar and vice versa or a dog or furry or a robot.ย  A couple people mentioned that as long as you don't get into a relationship with someone or lie to them about who you are in RL it's fine to play whomever you like.ย  My question is:

If you subscribe to the SL is SL and RL is RL and you don't voice, cam or send pics of yourself in RL or reveal anything about your RLย then what does it matter what your online persona is?ย  Would it be morally wrong to make up a career, an age and description of who you are?ย  At what point does it become lying and not just "being someone else" Is there a disclaimer that you should be putting out or not?ย 

ย 

ย 

ย 

^^^ this

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This whole question revolves around another Unanswered one;

โ€What Is Second Life?โ€

(A)..Is it just another Social site where your digital & physical selves are expected to be congruent so that people can locate RL mates?

(B)..Is it a Roleplay experience?

(C)..Is it Something Else?

ย 

Most of the drama revolves around people with differing POVs getting involved and THEN finding out that they have fundamentally incompatible (in their minds at least) situations.

Ex: Resident (1) is bisexual female in RL but uses an attractive Male avatar in SL and uses SL as therapy for what she suspects is her own Gender Misalignment. Resident (2) is heterosexual Female in both SL & RL and generally suspects that people she associates with in SL are all โ€œlike herโ€. They get along famously, teeter on the edge of a romantic relationship and fall victim to angst when Resident โ€œ(1)โ€ either slips or tells Resident (2) her RL status. Hurt feelings abound.

ย 

Maybe its best to FIRST ask people; โ€œIs Sl a social Network or a Roleplay to you?โ€

-People who want a โ€œcongruentโ€ relationship can then start off as โ€œjust friendsโ€ with Roleplayers and vice-verse

-People who answer โ€œI donโ€™t careโ€ can revel in their Unicorndom and the others can decide to take a chance on them or not

ย 

The nice thing about this is that nobody need ask for any other details, butthurt can be largely avoided

ย 

Option #2: Keep smashing into this particular wall.

giphy.gif?cid=5e2148865b975d52c46e5da0e1

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6 hours ago, Amanda Crisp said:

This whole question revolves around another Unanswered one;

โ€What Is Second Life?โ€

Let me google that..

85AyoJm.png

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Love....ย 

I fell 'in love' with a male avatar. We clicked.
Naive as I was I paid clothing, rent, gave money so he could tip dj's but most of all invested my time in us.ย 
I gave him money so that he could pay the rent and the landlord would see his name on the payment and not mine. ย We did not voice. I was okay with that. I've had a previous relationship where we not voiced for a super long time but eventually did... so I did not look into this not being available in this relationship at first.
We rented land in a community and both were part of the group that lead that community.ย 
We exchanged RL stuff. He would send me pictures of him (PG) and of activities he went to with the family.

He also told me he has been stalked and that his ex can be everywhere.. very paranoia about that. Double checking all profiles that enter the land.ย 


After 5.5 months he said he needed to tell me something. "I'm a woman in real life."ย 
I was in shock. She kept begging to not leave her... I did not leave her initially.
She then wanted to voice so we did.. numerous times. we even made two new accounts to escape the busy life we had on our mains. It didn't last long.ย I thought let's give it a go. But this was impossible.
I couldn't get over the fact that she lied to me while getting my resources and time...let alone using her husbands pictures to convince she's a man.ย And I'm not even 100% gay. But as a human I felt mislead, betrayed, used and lied to.

Everything that had happened with her and me.. was, in retrospect, ย not the same anymore. It became a lie.. no matter how 'real' it was.

On top of that... when I mentioned the issues in private to the community leaders I was not believed and asked to move away. Despite me paying for the rent of the land.ย 
Since it's not allowed to mention names or reveal personal stuff I felt double trapped. I had not taken screen shots and logs can be altered though hold no solid proof.ย 

I was psychologically incredibly challenged by this event and it took me quite some time to overcome and process all the emotions that I experienced after this. I could not trust anyone anymore. I was not only mislead, used and lied to by one person. No I was then also shunned and send away by a whole community who thought I lied or felt uncomfortable standing up against her/him.
I'm good now. But the scars are real.
I find myself a bit more aware and careful now with whom I share what and when. And rightfully.ย 

What she did is not legal. But who's to blame..? That is a good question.

I still not have the answer.ย 
I feel if I have been too forgiving, too patient and too naive. As in retrospective there were red flags and I did think some things were a bit fishy... but dissed them as I was in love.. (love makes blind).ย 

I might have been an 'easy' victim.ย 

That being said her actions and those of the community did not only cause me harm..the harm it caused affected also my relationships with others in SL (big time).
I"m no longer the bubbly person I once was... I'm more withdrawn.. less talkative and not eager to make new friends..ย 
The impact it has is real and I'm unfortunately not the only that has to go through these events.ย 

How it can be addressed I don't know.. but I felt like sharing my story...ย 

Regards,

*Edit: the truth did come out eventually...

Edited by Bold Burner
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5 hours ago, Bold Burner said:

I might have been an 'easy' victim.ย 

Yes you were but you need to move on , i 've heard many stories about women with male avis doing such things and even worse in SL but thats the way it is with random strangers online. Play safe.

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On 9/14/2021 at 10:47 AM, Orwar said:

ย  ย No.

ย  ย If you've gone as far as to reach for someone's heart through dishonesty, you're not crossing a 'thin line'; that's being a deceptive jerk. To most people past the age of 7 that's generally considered common sense.ย 

You are talking about intentional deception, I am talking about doing SL thinking it's all roleplay, while someone else thinks it is more than that.

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12 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

You are talking about intentional deception, I am talking about doing SL thinking it's all roleplay, while someone else thinks it is more than that.

ย  ย So your avatar is roleplaying that it is being driven by someone different than they are in reality? Get off it. You have the right not to share any RL details if you don't want to - lying about them is intentional deception, no matter what way you twist it.

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20 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

You are talking about intentional deception, I am talking about doing SL thinking it's all roleplay, while someone else thinks it is more than that.

So unless you state in your profile that everything you do and who you are IS roleplay, you are intentionally deceiving people.ย  Day to day interaction, who cares.ย  Anything more intimate than that and not being honest about your gender is deceitful.ย ย 

The color of your hair, how tall you are, where you live...those things you can lie about all you'd like.ย  It doesn't matter.ย  They aren't relevant to anything in SL, roleplay or not.ย  Gender is to many people and it's my guess, why people hide it.ย  They know it matters.

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7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So unless you state in your profile that everything you do and who you are IS roleplay..

Some of us do have such a notice in profile, yet still a few people will feel hurt or whatever.

It really depends on the person and how much they want to connect with others, according to my personal experience.

Screenshot_2021-12-02_16-50-22.png.e4719a1d26328f183b28b70026555e25.png

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1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

Some of us do have such a notice in profile, yet still a few people will feel hurt or whatever.

It really depends on the person and how much they want to connect with others, according to my personal experience.

Screenshot_2021-12-02_16-50-22.png.e4719a1d26328f183b28b70026555e25.png

Which is exactly my point.ย  If you're given the info and choose to continue with a relationship, you're at the least given that choice to make an informed decision.ย  Do I like this person enough to take a chance?ย ย 

Of course, with any relationship there is that possibility of being hurt.ย  It's the chance you take.ย  Finding out you've been deceived from the start is a whole other issue.ย  If someone sees SL as only RP,ย  that's fine but a major point if you get involved with someone.

Not everyone sees SL the same way.ย  If you don't want to state pertinent facts in your profile, you should at least have the decency to inform those who you get close to, IMO.ย  Let them choose.

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5 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you don't want to state pertinent facts in your profile, you should at least have the decency to inform those who you get close to, IMO.ย  Let them choose.

I manage to do both. It's in my 1st Life Tab. And then I dedicate a whole Pick to informing about running as a cis-female in SL, even though the reality is a late 50s male.

I also then make sure, when people first interact with me and it's veering towards even slightly flirty (I hang at some formal dance places and often get asked to dance), to be right up front and tell a potential friend the deal.

I get responses ranging from downright homophobic, through to rude "chasers" who are hoping I am a transgendered MtF or CD and will be sporting a male part, curious "But why?" (not really anyone's business), through to "Sure, all good! Still up for a dance?"

Those last ones are some genuinely cool people. I pretty much accept however you wish to visually present in SL, just be honest in our interactions. It's too easy to lie/deceive in SL.

Edited by Katherine Heartsong
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7 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Yes you were but you need to move on , i 've heard many stories about women with male avis doing such things and even worse in SL but thats the way it is with random strangers online. Play safe.

This is true and something I learned the hard way.ย  The same thing but different happened to me.ย 

There was a woman avatar who hosted at a club that I used to frequent almost daily.ย  We struck up a friendship and bonded over things women bond over. Pregnancy, periods, pms.etc. We did things together that I would have only done with another woman avatar as 2 girlfriends on an outing. We discussed real life things I would have only told a woman of an experience I had when I was very young.ย  Something I would have only told a trusted girlfriend.ย  One day she suggested we go to a nude club and dance and flirt with guys. Fun right..if that had been a girl. We became bestie girlfriends over a 3-4 month period of time hanging out daily.

One day they said the dreaded "I have something to confess to you" I knew right away what it was even though I had not suspected at all before.ย  He said he was telling me now because he developed romantic feelings for me and wanted to pursue that with me AND that he wanted to start DJing again and start using his male avatar. I should have registered that last part in my mind better.ย  I was totally shocked *I know that I shouldn't have been* but I typically don't expect people to lie to me. I've since changed this mindset and now expect anything anyone tells me is a lie.

We tried "dating" but since I wouldn't have sex with him he dumped me.ย  Now he is a beloved DJ with his own club, partnered and everyone can't say nice enough things about him not knowing what a complete liar and jack$ss he truly is.ย  I remember telling someone this story and they looked at me and said I must be mistaking him for someone else because they couldn't believe that *insert name* would ever do such a thing. I went in the club one night and he doesn't even remember who I am. LOL or said he didn't until I reminded him.

@Bold BurnerYou will get over it but expect that your experience has changed SL for you forever.ย 

I'm over it and have been for a long time but it has changed SL for me.ย  I have become suspicious of people I meet and unless I speak to them first It is always in the back of my mind that this person is an alt of someone.ย  I no longer voice with people or share my RL picture.ย  I tend to do things in SL by myself because it's safer that way.

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8 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This is true and something I learned the hard way.ย  The same thing but different happened to me.ย 

There was a woman avatar who hosted at a club that I used to frequent almost daily.ย  We struck up a friendship and bonded over things women bond over. Pregnancy, periods, pms.etc. We did things together that I would have only done with another woman avatar as 2 girlfriends on an outing. We discussed real life things I would have only told a woman of an experience I had when I was very young.ย  Something I would have only told a trusted girlfriend.ย  One day she suggested we go to a nude club and dance and flirt with guys. Fun right..if that had been a girl. We became bestie girlfriends over a 3-4 month period of time hanging out daily.

One day they said the dreaded "I have something to confess to you" I knew right away what it was even though I had not suspected at all before.ย  He said he was telling me now because he developed romantic feelings for me and wanted to pursue that with me AND that he wanted to start DJing again and start using his male avatar. I should have registered that last part in my mind better.ย  I was totally shocked *I know that I shouldn't have been* but I typically don't expect people to lie to me. I've since changed this mindset and now expect anything anyone tells me is a lie.

We tried "dating" but since I wouldn't have sex with him he dumped me.ย  Now he is a beloved DJ with his own club, partnered and everyone can't say nice enough things about him not knowing what a complete liar and jack$ss he truly is.ย  I remember telling someone this story and they looked at me and said I must be mistaking him for someone else because they couldn't believe that *insert name* would ever do such a thing. I went in the club one night and he doesn't even remember who I am. LOL or said he didn't until I reminded him.

@Bold BurnerYou will get over it but expect that your experience has changed SL for you forever.ย 

I'm over it and have been for a long time but it has changed SL for me.ย  I have become suspicious of people I meet and unless I speak to them first It is always in the back of my mind that this person is an alt of someone.ย  I no longer voice with people or share my RL picture.ย  I tend to do things in SL by myself because it's safer that way.

As I mentioned in the thread..why do people lie in SL?...

On 9/7/2021 at 4:23 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I assume everyone lies about everything in SL.ย ย 

ย 

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7 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This is true and something I learned the hard way.ย  The same thing but different happened to me.... etc

Forget about it and play your SL, if it becomes too boring or annoying press the log out button, put some clothes on and go out enjoy some warm coffee at a cafe or wherever. There's a whole world outside with real people that you can talk to and at least you get to see who/how/what they are.

---------

p.s Sammie I always thought you were a dude.

Ffs for a year i thought thatย Ceka was african american... now you also tell me you are a woman.. My whole world collapsed within a few days..

AjarWeightyChickadee-small.gif

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16 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Forget about it and play your SL, if it becomes too boring or annoying press the log out button, put some clothes on and go out enjoy some warm coffee at a cafe or wherever. There's a whole world outside with real people that you can talk to and at least you get to see who/how/what they are.

---------

ย 

I know you said this as in being as nice as possible but it does kind of insinuate that I'm making too much out of an experience that had a real effect on me.ย  If we all could just "log out" and go outside then all of this wouldn't matter except that it does....

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11 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Hmmm...I guess I better spruce up my avatar picture on the forum if you think that's a dude!

... nah its ok i am teasing you cause i saw the "dude" peeve on the other thread, always knew that you are a woman from the way you write/express yourself on specific matters regardless of avatar photos and such.

Edited by Nick0678
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8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

So unless you state in your profile that everything you do and who you are IS roleplay, you are intentionally deceiving people.ย  Day to day interaction, who cares.

So you have to put it in your profile for everyone to see ,even though for most people it doesn't matter.In the case of casual interaction with others, it is no ones business.ย 

Granted if one is going to pursue a romantic relationship, RL gender needs to be disclosed. However if one enters into a relationship that is not romantic, and the other party then starts to have romantic feelings, this does not obligate a person to disclose anything. The party trying to take the relationship to the next level needs to be told that they cannot, and it may be appropriate to end the relationship altogether. But you do not have to explain why. Only the individual who wants to take the relationship to another level is obligated to disclose personal information.

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34 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

So you have to put it in your profile for everyone to see ,even though for most people it doesn't matter.In the case of casual interaction with others, it is no ones business.ย 

Granted if one is going to pursue a romantic relationship, RL gender needs to be disclosed. However if one enters into a relationship that is not romantic, and the other party then starts to have romantic feelings, this does not obligate a person to disclose anything. The party trying to take the relationship to the next level needs to be told that they cannot, and it may be appropriate to end the relationship altogether. But you do not have to explain why. Only the individual who wants to take the relationship to another level is obligated to disclose personal information.

Why would it matter if everyone knows.that to you, SL is one big RP?ย  It would give.them a heads up that you may or may not be what you seem.ย  A lot of.people into RP only, don't care who is behind the avatar.ย  But I also think.people use 'it's only RP' as a coverall for being an asshat.ย  I don't assume everyone I meet is strictly some RP character.ย  I'm not.ย  Most everyone I know isn't.ย  It's an important distinction.

Edited by Rowan Amore
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