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On 4/20/2021 at 5:09 AM, Sid Nagy said:


Then we slowly grew apart, I stopped logging in for a while and now she never logs in any more as far as I know.

But to me it proves that you can keep RL in RL, with sharing a lot of it in SL.

 

I have been taking my first break in sl (other than vacations in rl) in over 10 years of being in here.  I have several reasons why I'm taking the break, some rl and some sl.  The other day I went to check my flickr and there were three messages from sl friends, concerned about my disappearance.  I had never announced it or put a 'taking a break' sign up on my profile.  One thing that I had forgotten about is that people would assume that my cancer had returned, which it hasn't.  It was an aggressive cancer with a 30-40% rate of re-occurring so I get tested every 3 months.  Since then, I have been sending messages to my important friends through gmail, flickrmail, etc to re-assure them that I'm fine and that I just needed a break.  

I have had good friends, friends who I had known for ages simply 'disappear' and I had no way to communicate to ask if they were okay.  It's an awful feeling.  Now with COVID, we could 'disappear' because of it, and no one would know what has happened to you unless you have some sort of system to alert or inform sl friends.  I needed this reminder that taking a break is fine, but that I had to remember to let my close friends know what is going on and how I am doing.  

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I have some “feels” about this.

#1 - I am of the “your world/your imagination” people. Express yourself avatar-wise based on what both makes you happy and won’t get you banned.

#2 - I am also of the “don’t be a butthead” school of thought. Be respectful of others and their personal mores. If you are presenting yourself in SL across gender/race (or even species *smile*) lines - and you are about to be SL-intimate - then have a discussion with the other person. They have no inherent “right to know” about your RL, but if you might cause them emotional distress based on RL status - the considerate thing to do is talk to them about it. Saying “I was just roleplaying” is NO excuse for triggering someone when there were other options. Frankly, my idea of roleplay involves ALL players knowing its a roleplay. We all prefer to be treated with consideration by others, so it needs to work both ways.

#3 - I personally don’t care about anyone’s RL status. My policy is to accept people within Sl  *as they choose to present themselves* and I have a hard rule about never taking SL to RL. Personally, I find this liberating. I’m interested in the product of their brain; their humor, their creativity and the brilliance of the soul that people carry with them regardless of the medium. I won’t be the one asking “hey, are you a girl in RL…because I’m only into girls” and that means less potential for drama.

#4 - Counting time on our Original avatars, I have been partnered to the same Person for over 15 years now in SL. I’m sure if pressed, LL could verify that 🙂 I present that as proof that - for me - this “I don’t ask about RL” works….even if just for me.

Having said that, I do realize that some human beings have an emotional *need* to know. I don’t consider them bad people; I’m just glad that I am not similarly burdened.

Being *slightly* disabled in RL, I appreciate the chance to appear “normal”. Here in SL, I never worry that someone figures out my small neurological Problem and is only being nice because they feel sorry for me. Here, I am the idealized version of myself and that provides a wonderful emotional break from the stresses of Real Life.

So this might be worth considering; before asking “what are you like in RL?”. You might be asking someone to lift the veil that provides them with the only emotional stability they have and that RL denies them.

So I don’t ask 🙂

Love all y’all. There ARE no bad questions, but sometime the answers sting a bit ……

 

image.gif

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Oh boy. This dang topic. lol. 

As a RL and SL Trans girl, this is a really fraught topic. I have had exactly the experience that Sid mentioned earlier. Several times.

When I first started out in SL, I presented 100% female. Never put myself out there much romantically. Just hung out and built stuff mostly. But guys I met seemed to just assume that I was female. Nevermind I was a 6ft tall Drow/Demon with Faun legs. That coochie MUST be legit!

And I did somehow end up hurting some of those guys when they found out. But I take zero responsibility for that. Presumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups, as they say. 

Though I would say about 60% took it in their stride and were cool. We remained friends and I even had some nice dates/fun with a few. But the ones that take it badly, take it BADLY. Wounded male pride is a volatile little beast.

So nowadays I clearly mention I am trans in both my 2nd and 1st life tabs. Its just easier. It shouldnt be relevant but hey. It saves me from having to justify myself to a deluded person at a later point.

And the funny thing (I dont know if this is skewed by the "type of guy" who talks to trans girls) but nearly every guy I know has a female alt. 

But generally speaking, besides that, my timezone and approx age, I dont give out anything further unless I really feel comfortable. Though I agree, once you get talking to someone, the lines can blur when you start talking about interests and stuff. SL me has never read a book, been travelling, etc. Thats all RL me. So sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

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17 minutes ago, AnnabelleApocalypse said:

And I did somehow end up hurting some of those guys when they found out. But I take zero responsibility for that. Presumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups, as they say. 
 It saves me from having to justify myself to a deluded person at a later point.

funny, because it is your responibility ... YOU f*d up...
And yes, because you presented yourself as someting else, it is on you to justify why you didn't tell while contacts didn't take you as you are, but presented differently. If you sound like a duck, you'r most likely a duck, and if you tell you'r a raven in disguise... yes people will take you different.

You would be OK when you presented yourself as you really are, you'r the one to blame others got hurt. 
Not going to discuess this further, but the always funny thing: you have to take "me" as i am, but" i "can call you as i want"   .. that works two sides.. but as so often with the modern "differences""  .. it's one way traffic.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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7 hours ago, AnnabelleApocalypse said:

I did somehow end up hurting some of those guys when they found out. But I take zero responsibility for that.

How did they find out?  If you were the one to tell them, then it certainly was your responsibility to say so from the beginning.  If you choose to present as a female then stay in character.  Waiting to tell someone after they've become involved is just wrong.  If you have no intention of stating your RL gender, ever then there IS no problem.  

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I think people have misconstrued me slightly. I didnt get "involved" with anyone prior to telling them I was trans beyond you know, just being friendly. Im talking about just hanging out, in clubs, sandboxes and such. Sex/romance is/was not really what I am looking for here, so anything beyond never really crossed my mind.

And then at some point, when a conversation about gender has arisen naturally (the "what % of SL females are actually dudes?" conversation has always been a hot topic), fireworks sometimes flew. I have no idea if the people in question had developed feelings for me or were just generally transphobic. Though from the way some of the conversations went down, I strongly suspect some did. 

What I am saying is, somewhere along the line they presumed or inferred information about me incorrectly. I had not stated anything either way in my profile. Its a long time ago but I think it was something fairly generic like "here to build explore and have fun". 

Alwin - Im not entirely sure what point your trying to make. So everybody's avatar has to look exactly like them or its an act of deception? Because thats how I read your (somewhat garbled) comment. I wasnt going out of my way to talk girly or be flirty. It was just my avatar. I was a noob. I didnt think people gave a crap. I came at SL in a very "oh its a video game where you build stuff" attitude to begin with.


Incidentally, stuff like this happens IRL too. Its happened to me and MANY other "girls" I know. Example: A guy comes on strong in a bar or club, you immediately say "Im Trans" or words to that effect and suddenly, its YOUR fault that hes now having a crisis of masculinity because hes been mentally masturbating over you for the last 30 mins in a dark corner. F*ck that. Should I walk around holding a fricking sign or something?

And its that exact moment that gets a lot of trans girls verbally assaulted, beaten or worse. Extreme example, but IMHO its the same basic attitude at play. "I'm angry/hurt because I imagined something about you that turned out to be incorrect".

 

Edited by AnnabelleApocalypse
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Sometimes, even people who roleplay take the roleplaying from second life and real life. I've seen it happen in a lot of roleplaying sims. Especially when it involved long term roleplay and ERP.  It's best to tell that person upfront that you are only here for the roleplay and nothing more. But to not tell them your intentions and lead them astray can be a problem. Even if you may not take it serious. There are people on second life who take it quite serious.  And they tend to catch RL feelings even if it was a completely platonic conversation , roleplay ,etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/30/2021 at 10:34 AM, Coffee Pancake said:

No one needs justify their gender presentation or how that may differ from what's in their knickers to anyone. Ever.

 

If you are offering RL then yes, you do have to justify your gender presentation. I agree that If I have a male avatar and I present as a male and NEVER take it to RL or voice/cam then no you don't but don't present as a male and then 5 months later catch RL feelings and disclose your real gender.  

Going back to the female host that befriended me and we became close and then after three months revealed she was really a he and wanted to date me with their male avatar.  I would have preferred to have never known that she was a male in RL. Now our conversations were not how they were because I now know now that I'm talking to a male and not someone I saw as my "bestie girlfriend".  Now matter how our relationship was before it is now changed forever.  So yes, present how you want but don't expect understanding when you reveal that you aren't really who you present as. 

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On 3/27/2021 at 8:54 AM, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This came up in another thread and instead of piggybacking off it I thought I'd start a new thread.  

SL is a place where you can be who you want to be right?  You can be a female and have a male avatar and vice versa or a dog or furry or a robot.  A couple people mentioned that as long as you don't get into a relationship with someone or lie to them about who you are in RL it's fine to play whomever you like.  My question is:

If you subscribe to the SL is SL and RL is RL and you don't voice, cam or send pics of yourself in RL or reveal anything about your RL then what does it matter what your online persona is?  Would it be morally wrong to make up a career, an age and description of who you are?  At what point does it become lying and not just "being someone else" Is there a disclaimer that you should be putting out or not? 

 

 

 

The short answer is if people are clear where their line is drawn in SL then it really should not matter one way or the other. The basic disclaimer I see most people put in their profiles is I don't voice and I don't cam so don't ask. SL is SL and I come here to escape RL so don't ask me anything about my RL. That in itself should be sufficient enough info. to tell people none of their bloody business. Now if people go past that then ya some honesty to me is required. That's just basic human respect the more you get to personally know someone. Especially where feelings are concerned. If people are on here to type only and play pretend then their RL should be off limits entirely and that boundary should be respected. Right or wrong that's how I personally feel about it mate. Hope this helps some.😎

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7 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I would have preferred to have never known that she was a male in RL. Now our conversations were not how they were because I now know now that I'm talking to a male and not someone I saw as my "bestie girlfriend".

This is so true.

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Had a stalker for years and years in RL that attached himself to me in an online game when I was much younger and dumber. I'll tell people my gender and my age, beyond that there is less than a handful people in SL I will talk about RL with. 90% of the time I don't mix my lives and I prefer it that way. I don't lie but I very much tell people my RL is none of their business if they can't deal they can just not befriend me. In the end can you believe what most people tell you online? No not really. Unless you actually meet in RL and sped time together you will not know how authentic someone is. That's ok, just go into meeting people keeping that in mind and you won't be terribly disappointed later.

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21 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Going back to the female host that befriended me and we became close and then after three months revealed she was really a he and wanted to date me with their male avatar.  I would have preferred to have never known that she was a male in RL. Now our conversations were not how they were because I now know now that I'm talking to a male and not someone I saw as my "bestie girlfriend".  Now matter how our relationship was before it is now changed forever.  So yes, present how you want but don't expect understanding when you reveal that you aren't really who you present as. 

I think this kind of thing is especially sad. But only because they brought dating into it. That (to me) would be what makes the situation truly uncomfortable. If they kept it in the friend zone, I see much less of a problem. its the same fundamental person underneath. I understand it can be a bit shocking/surprising. But it shouldn't really make much of a difference to a good friendship.

But they didn't just drop a gender reveal on you, they wanted to also change the fundamental dynamic of your relationship.

I think unwanted advances from someone you only considered a friend are always WTF moments and can irreparably damage things. Because now you know that they see you in a way you don't reciprocate. So a tension exists where there was none before. 
 

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  • 3 months later...

In a brief, I can support Takeda. Our SL, our rules. I personally don't come to SL in search for anything related directly to RL. I come to SL to get me away from RL stress. I found out I have main passion for simple prims building, and decorating indoor and outdoor in SL, almost like a treatment to my RL. And apparently doing rental business in SL is something I can enjoy too. Things I enjoy in SL don't require me to reveal my RL. 

But I personally think moral values in RL still should apply in SL, like respecting others, although I believe I have always been learning to be a better and maybe productive person, RL and SL. Nothing's fixed. 

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On 9/13/2021 at 6:44 AM, millenakera said:

respecting others

This I think is where disagreement arises, not on whether we should respect others but just what it looks like. A big part of respect is honesty, but in SL where we create a character, does respect require that the people behind the characters be honest with each other, or just that the characters be honest with each other. Just how much does respect require that we share about our real lives?

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2 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

Just how much does respect require that we share about our real lives?

   That's really simple. Not a darned bit.

   Would this lie have the potential to needlessly hurt someone, or would it become a burden for me? If yes, find another solution.

   At no point are you required to share anything about your real life if you don't want to. If someone asks a question which you are uncomfortable or unwilling to answer, simply say that - then it's on them to be respectful of your wishes.

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20 minutes ago, Orwar said:

Would this lie have the potential to needlessly hurt someone, or would it become a burden for me? If yes, find another solution.

It can be a thin line between creating a fantasy to entertain, and breaking someone's heart.

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8 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

It can be a thin line between creating a fantasy to entertain, and breaking someone's heart.

I think this is where our own logic and  wisdom should play the role, are we going to pursue RL related approaches to someone who has clearly stated not going to involve RL in SL. No one's to blame for our own decisions. 

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37 minutes ago, Orwar said:

At no point are you required to share anything about your real life if you don't want to. If someone asks a question which you are uncomfortable or unwilling to answer, simply say that - then it's on them to be respectful of your wishes.

Can't agree more. 

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