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Afternoon Linden labs, & wonderful SL community. 

 

I have noticed that Linden has changed the size dimentions of the window frames to add photos in the "Picks" section of a personal profile. 

Can you tell me please what the new dimentions are . 

Much obliged. 

 

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no, it depends on what viewer people use. The norm of viewer isn't relevant.

I have no idea Shnucks. I don't use the LL viewer myself. I use Alchemy - purely for speed It would be easy to find out though, by downloading the LL viewer and logging in with it.

Firestorm can display different formats when you click on the picture of the pick and the profile window is resizeable to any aspect ratio you want, which it will remember: So it's pretty mo

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Hi Shnucks (lovely name),

I'd assume that the majority of SL residents uses the Firestorm (FS) viewer, and that most profile picks are viewed in that type of viewer in-world. FS uses the profile old style (version 1.x). So the answer would be 16:9.

I always make my Picks images 16:9 in Photoshop and then resize them to 512 x 256 for adding to my Picks through in-world upload.

So it really depends whom you want to cater: the default (4:3), or the majority of SL users (16:9).

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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18 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

So it really depends whom you want to cater: the default (4:3), or the majority of SL users (16:9).

Always cater for the norm, and the norm in this case is the LL viewer, regardless of how many people use an alternative.

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5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Always cater for the norm, and the norm in this case is the LL viewer, regardless of how many people use an alternative.

no, it depends on what viewer people use. The norm of viewer isn't relevant.

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I understand what you mean but, imo, the norm is the LL viewer. It's the one that all the other full viewers make modifications to. No full 3rd party viewer is its own creation. They are merely modified LL viewers. Unless I'm mistaken, which is certainly possible, I don't think the other viewers are allowed to totally replace parts of the original viewer so, if Firestorm can't handle the LL viewer's ratio, then I believe it is doing wrong.

Someone 'assumed' that most people use Firestorm, but I can't accept that. I'd like to see LL's figures on it. I could accept that more people use 3rd party viewers than the LL viewer but that's different.

So my opinion is, cater for the standard viewer - the LL viewer - because all modified LL viewers should be able to do what the standard viewer does.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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I have no idea Shnucks. I don't use the LL viewer myself. I use Alchemy - purely for speed :)

It would be easy to find out though, by downloading the LL viewer and logging in with it.

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4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

cater for the standard viewer - the LL viewer - because all modified LL viewers should be able to do what the standard viewer does.

Should they? (That's another point for debate.) But they don't.

You have to come up with a better argument than (because they should) for arguing against 'more users vs. default'.

The reality now is: more people are looking at 16:9 than 4:3. If you opt for 4:3, more people are seeing your Picks in a distorted way.

Now, you could start a revolution into telling everyone to fight for 4:3. But will they comply? I think they have better ways to spend their time.

But by all means, go advertise your pick images in 4:3. I'll use 16:9 and in the end we'll see (if it even serves a purpose at all) who is 'better off'.

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Firestorm can display different formats when you click on the picture of the pick and the profile window is resizeable to any aspect ratio you want, which it will remember:

image.png.32cd956459d013341126601b4da9501e.png

So it's pretty moot as far as Firestorm is concerned.

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18 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Should they? (That's another point for debate.) But they don't.

I said, unless I am mistaken. I also said that it's quite possible that I am mistaken. But I do think that 3rd party viewers are not allowed to totally replace parts of the standard viewer, whether they abide by it or not.

Don't forget that there are a fair number of 3rd party viewers, and they don't all make the same modifications, so it can't be assumed that they all now only do a 16:9 ratio. Example: only this morning I was having a discussion with someone concerning the About Land floater. We were both using 3rd party viewers but not the same as each other. In her viewer, she had an extra tab called Sounds (I think it was Sounds), in which she could add several URLs for the music stream to the parcel. My 3rd party viewer doesn't have that, and only one URL can be added. Mine kept the standard floater, hers added to it.

So, to go along with one viewer's modification does not mean that you are reaching the majority of users. Better, imo, to cater for the standard viewer, because all viewers should be able to handle it.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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48 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Better, imo, to cater for the standard viewer, because all viewers should be able to handle it.

Go ahead. Be my guest. And when/if ever your crusade causes the user base to embrace 4:3 and become the majority, I'll update my Picks pics.

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I understand what you mean but, imo, the norm is the LL viewer. It's the one that all the other full viewers make modifications to. No full 3rd party viewer is its own creation. They are merely modified LL viewers. Unless I'm mistaken, which is certainly possible, I don't think the other viewers are allowed to totally replace parts of the original viewer so, if Firestorm can't handle the LL viewer's ratio, then I believe it is doing wrong.

Someone 'assumed' that most people use Firestorm, but I can't accept that. I'd like to see LL's figures on it. I could accept that more people use 3rd party viewers than the LL viewer but that's different.

So my opinion is, cater for the standard viewer - the LL viewer - because all modified LL viewers should be able to do what the standard viewer does.

They do and the TPVs have many more features the LL viewer doesn't have. 

The majority of residents do use FS as their "normal" viewer. I've seen the figures in the past. At one point, the figure was close to 70% as I recall. FS has increased in popularity over the years.

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4 hours ago, Shnucks Swashbuckler said:

Thanks for the comment Phil. 

So what are the standard LL picks dimentions for photos ? and I shall try this on Firestorm . 

Cheers 

 

 

The links have already been posted. Second post in the thread I think. Not scrolling up to look.

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23 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Go ahead. Be my guest.

Be your guest? LMAO. Who are you? Did I ask for your permission? Do I need your permission? Be your guest? LOL.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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19 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

They do and the TPVs have many more features the LL viewer doesn't have. 

The majority of residents do use FS as their "normal" viewer. I've seen the figures in the past. At one point, the figure was close to 70% as I recall. FS has increased in popularity over the years.

Yes, 3rd party viewers do add things to the LL viewer, and re-arrange things too. We know that. As for the percentages, I'd still like to see LL's figures. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that I don't accept your figure.

But that's beside the point. The way for the OP to cover as many users as possible with the pic dimensions is to use the standard viewer's dimensions - that's the LL viewer. 3rd party viewers should handle the ratio ok, but I don't think the standard viewer will handle non-standard ratios, and a lot of people use the standard viewer. That's my opinion, anyway.

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What is normal?
For me that's what most ppl use and that's FS atm.

The LL viewer is the reference.

If I would care what other people see I would use the format of the most used viewer.
Since I don't care - I stick with my viewers format. (ok that makes it easy - FS in both cases 😁)

So LL should do something and adapt their viewer to the norm. 😎
Or force the TPV's to adapt to LL's reference.
And since they are on it - maybe weed out the 100 different formats for any type of uploaded picture.

Edited by Nova Convair
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1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yes, 3rd party viewers do add things to the LL viewer, and re-arrange things too. We know that. As for the percentages, I'd still like to see LL's figures. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that I don't accept your figure.

But that's beside the point. The way for the OP to cover as many users as possible with the pic dimensions is to use the standard viewer's dimensions - that's the LL viewer. 3rd party viewers should handle the ratio ok, but I don't think the standard viewer will handle non-standard ratios, and a lot of people use the standard viewer. That's my opinion, anyway.

1) The aspect ratio originally was 16:9 until the Linden Lab viewer changed it to 4:3 with Viewer 2. The reason that Firestorm, et al use 16:9 is they're using the original aspect ratio, which was also used with Viewer 1.23, Phoenix and Singularity after the introduction of Viewer 2.

2) Linden Lab is working on a project to switch back to the "legacy" in-viewer profiles instead of continuing to use the web profiles it currently uses. That viewer currently uses the 16:9 aspect ratio. https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.4.11.550519.html

(Theresa Tennyson has memories of how Mr. Deakins used to insist that the fact that Internet Explorer shipped with Windows made it the "standard" long after most people stopped using it and it began to throw hissy fits with many websites designed for more common viewers)

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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   I use FS, so for pick pics I go with 16:9. Were I using a viewer with a different format, I'd probably go with that - most picks I see tend to be formatted 'wrong' anyway (some using pictures that seem to have been shot in 2:1, they look atrocious!), and since there's no proper standard I figure I'll just go with what looks best on my end. I do occasionally put a note of the aspect ratio of a texture in its description though.

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

(Theresa Tennyson has memories of how Mr. Deakins used to insist that the fact that Internet Explorer shipped with Windows made it the "standard" long after most people stopped using it and it began to throw hissy fits with many websites designed for more common viewers)

   Browsers! 

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yes, 3rd party viewers do add things to the LL viewer, and re-arrange things too. We know that. As for the percentages, I'd still like to see LL's figures. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that I don't accept your figure.

But that's beside the point. The way for the OP to cover as many users as possible with the pic dimensions is to use the standard viewer's dimensions - that's the LL viewer. 3rd party viewers should handle the ratio ok, but I don't think the standard viewer will handle non-standard ratios, and a lot of people use the standard viewer. That's my opinion, anyway.

*thwaps you on the  nose with two fingers* Behave!

The figures we used to get came directly from LL. As for what that figure might be now you'd need to ask Jessi since LL isn't going to provide those figures to anyone else (that isn't on a TPV dev team, not the support team). You might find the most recent figures somewhere on the FS blog. Jess does post that kind of info usually.

All SL photogs should use LL's standard ratios for profile pics. There's good reason for it if they'd just do the research.

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No idea how accurate: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits#Textures

[EDIT: I realize now that this is just a different part of the same page @Silent Mistwalker posted above.]

[EDIT2: Since I screwed that up, hey, how 'bout that Zack Snyder director's cut of Justice League? Specifically, the crazy IMAX-based, almost square aspect ratio that makes you wonder if somehow you selected a non-HD version, but then makes you so happy to be watching on an OLED screen where the black bars are really, really black!]

Edited by Qie Niangao
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4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

(Theresa Tennyson has memories of how Mr. Deakins used to insist that the fact that Internet Explorer shipped with Windows made it the "standard" long after most people stopped using it and it began to throw hissy fits with many websites designed for more common viewers)

Your memory is good :) - except that IE was the most used browser at the time ;)

I do have a preference for the originals as standards, and I am very down on the idea that 'my <whatever it is> is used by a lot of people that I know, therefore it is the most used one in the world. I have yet to be presented with evidence that Firestorm is used by more people than all the others put together. I see (biased) statements, but I don't see evidence.

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1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

I have yet to be presented with evidence that Firestorm is used by more people than all the others put together. I see (biased) statements, but I don't see evidence.

Not sure LL would put out that info even if they have it.  The only people I've met who use the official viewer are generally new people.  If you went to a dozen busy places and did your own survey, I bet you'd find very few people on the official viewer.  The derender feature alone is worth the change.  Oh and Command line shortcuts.

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Hey, meet Sid Nagy. Always on the LL browser.
I tried about 15 minutes the FS one, but no, nope.

Why would I trust my login and password to a third party.
Wasn't there that emerald thingy in the past?

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