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40 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

No the debt from my delayed product payments is not being financed by anyone (there is no loan behind it). The debt is not legaly enforcable because there is no loan or credit contract that would be legaly binding the customer to any terms of re-payment. For those reasons I think that the customer protection laws that are being created to protect customers from getting into debt they can't handle don't apply here. 

Easy way to tell if it is or isn't is to ask Linden Lab and post the result here in this thread of what they say. Something tells me though you wont otherwise you already would have.

Dont forget to tell Linden Lab when you do ask them if it is legal that you intend to set up a credit rating system other content creators can use to lock out potential customers as well. I am sure they will be overjoyed at that...

But even if they were to come back and say it is fine, I certainly wont be recommending any new people to try it out as it all seems very FISHY to me (pun intended).

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43 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've also googled you and the couple things I found were not complimentary and seem to reinforce my impression of you.

Like I have already explained in one of my other post. I was being extorted for money by 2 to 3 individuals. I received an email being told I that if I don't pay them specified large sum of money they will post my name on high google indexed forums and social media together tagged with words fraud, scam, thief and such. They knew I am successful creator and that by defaming and hurting my public image online will do me damage.

I did not let myself be extorted. I am here in the public eye. And the people who scam other people usually disappear from public life. I never did anything wrong and things written about me if you actually read them and for everyone who does a little research will see are lies written with purpose to destroy my reputation.

And for those who write that I am just some shady character who wants to get rich. I already have a comfortable life. I don't spend much money and don'tvneed much. I am an entrepreneur and some day I hope to become an investor.

My products are loved by those who use them and people who come in touch with me on a daily basis as I offer support know I am ok and that is why they support me. Through last 10 years I was an attack target many times. It is usually at the times of business growth. Should I just keep a low profile just because some people who are invested in copy games or other systems that they think are less used because mine is more become mean and are sometimes motivated to try to hurt the original system / product and hurt creators reputation.

I have learned that such is a business environment in SL and I am used of that.

I am not a politician I am not campaigning to be elected as a "mayor of SL forum". 

Rowan I don't need you to buy my product. Its up to you if you make your consumer decision based on rumors. You are not hurting my feelings by believing false rumors and spreading them.

For me it is important that my products / systems work and when due to the way SL works some product stops working I give a replacement (sometimes things break). I daily ensure that all my systems are functional and I have tons of friends in within largest and growing community that grew around my products / systems.

I never trust what other people say about other people. Especially about high profile people who are under public scrunity.

For example Bill Gates was accused of being involved in creating virus creating COVID. If it is easy for some people to believe such things if they read on forums that doesn't make it a reality. Rowan you seem to belong to that group of people who take in information from public forums as a reality or are you doing that with somekind of agenda or you simply don't like me.. 🙂

A lot of fake information is on internet. I say don't believe everything you read and check your sources.  

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1 minute ago, Wili Clip said:

Like I have already explained in one of my other post. I was being extorted for money by 2 to 3 individuals. I received an email being told I that if I don't pay them specified large sum of money they will post my name on high google indexed forums and social media together tagged with words fraud, scam, thief and such. They knew I am successful creator and that by defaming and hurting my public image online will do me damage.

I did not let myself be extorted. I am here, I never did anything wrong and things wrote about me if you actually read them and for everyone who does a little research will see are lies written with purpose to destroy my reputation.

And for those who write that I am just some shady character who wants to get rich. I already have a comfortable life. I don't spend much money and don'tvneed much. I am an entrepreneur and some day I hope to become an investor.

My products are loved by those who use them and people who come in touch with me on a daily basis as I offer support know I am ok and that is why they support me. Through last 10 years I was an attack target many times. It is usually at the times of business growth. Should I just keep a low profile just because some people who are invested in copy games or other systems that they think are less used because mine is more become mean and are sometimes motivated to try to hurt the original system / product and hurt creators reputation.

I have learned that such is a business environment in SL and I am used of that.

I am not a politician I am not campaigning to be elected as a "mayor of SL forum". 

Rowan I don't need you to buy my product. Its up to you if you make your consumer decision based on rumors. You are not hurting my feelings by believing false rumors and spreading them.

For me it is important that my products / systems work and when due to the way SL works some product stops working I give a replacement (sometimes things break). I daily ensure that all my systems are functional and I have tons of friends in within largest and growing community that grew around my products / systems.

I never trust what other people say about other people. Especially high profile people under public scrunity.

For example Bill Gates was accused of being involved in creating virus creating COVID. If it is easy for some people to believe such things if they read on forums that doesn't make it a reality. Rowan you seem to belong to that group of people who take in information from public forums as a reality or are you doing that with somekind of agenda or you simply don't like me.. 🙂

A lot of fake information is on internet. I say don't believe everything you read and check your sources.  

Mostly my impressions came from you and the things you've said in these forums.  

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13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Mostly my impressions came from you and the things you've said in these forums

I have a neutral impression of you. I don't have anything against you.

All I do on forum posts is to share my ideas. For me posting on this forum is not a matter of popularity contest. Sometimes I find it intelectually stimulating.

Sometimes some people post something constructive and well intended. I filter out all negativity and read and focus on those constructive post.

If you have a problem with me then that is your problem. I have nothing with you and don't even know you.

\O.. O/

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Easy way to tell if it is or isn't is to ask Linden Lab and post the result here in this thread of what they say. Something tells me though you wont otherwise you already would have.

I am still waiting for reply from LL product managers regarding my silver mines game project. Lots of people asked me about it and we are all still waiting.

The way I learned that LL works is that if something is not ok with them they let you know but only when it grows big enough to get on their radar.

But with silver mine game system I don't want risking investing into it and then they would prohibit it. That happened once already.

So I asked for permission and am still waiting.

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8 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

I have a neutral impression of you. I don't have anything against you.

All I do on forum posts is to share my ideas. For me posting on this forum is not a matter of popularity contest. Sometimes I find it intelectually stimulating.

Sometimes some people post something constructive and well intended. I filter out all negativity and read and focus on those constructive post.

If you have a problem with me then that is your problem. I have nothing with you and don't know you.

 

 

 

The difference being, your impression or anyone's impression of me makes no difference to my SL.  I have no business or product to sell.  I'm not trying to steer anyone to my investment opportunity.  My point being that with all your posts, the impression some people get is not good nor good for your many schemes.

Maybe it would do you good to actually listen to the negative as that seems to be what the majority of the comments are and for good reason.

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7 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

I was being extorted for money by 2 to 3 individuals.

20 Years After Its Release, a Brady Bunch Movie Meme Emerges

1 hour ago, Wili Clip said:

I am an innovator and I look to create fringe products and services that noone has thought of before. My most successful systems are being copied by many. I don't copy from others I have my own ideas and I pride myself on inventing.

This is what I do and I am thankful for Second Life being an environment that is supportive of innovations. Its known that innovating is not considered safe because you are creating something that was not yet regulated by law or rules.

I wish Second Life was on overall even more innovative. There are so many different laws created about everything that we are even becoming afraid to breath.

This is not innovation. This is looking for edge cases that go against the spirit of the original rule or evade it on a technicality.

This behavior is why we have so many rules.

I for one would appreciate more rules, especially on anything connected to financial operations inside SL.

These scams and schemes expressly targeted at the very poorest residents needs to end. Wili isn't the only one, he's just the only one dumb enough to post about it on the official forums.

1 minute ago, Wili Clip said:

I am still waiting for reply from LL product managers regarding my silver mines game project.

As a sometime TPV developer, there are many occasions where we find ourselves with an idea for a viewer feature and have to consider how it fits in the rules set by Linden Lab. Getting them to sign off on anything is impossible.

As Oz would put it, If you have to ask...

(no, the answer is no, always no)

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7 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Lots of people asked me about it 

So? People should be asking you hard questions. Your answers are what give people the information they need for an informed decision.

 

7 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

and we are all still waiting.

Doesn't mean the others are waiting with you. Many of them are just waiting to see LL say no.

One of the first rules of entrepreneurship is know your audience. When are you going to start studying yours?

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1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

As a sometime TPV developer, there are many occasions where we find ourselves with an idea for a viewer feature and have to consider how it fits in the rules set by Linden Lab. Getting them to sign off on anything is impossible.

As Oz would put it, If you have to ask...

(no, the answer is no, always no)

I'll back Coffee on this. Every word of it. Except the developer part. I didn't do that. But yes, I saw this happen so many times over the years. Barely managed to get them to accept the media filter, of all things.

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2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The difference being, your impression or anyone's impression of me makes no difference to my SL.  I have no business or product to sell.  I'm not trying to steer anyone to my investment opportunity.  My point being that with all your posts, the impression some people get is not good nor good for your many schemes.

Maybe it would do you good to actually listen to the negative as that seems to be what the majority of the comments are and for good reason.

I am doing well in my life and mostly that is because I took my own route in life. I am easily hated or missunderstood by some because I do things in different way than most. Well there is about bigger amount of people who like me and smaller amount of haters. Just that haters are the loudest. 

But I ask you. Who are you as a personality if you do everything as everyone expects of you?

Do you even exist as an individual? Do you form your own opinions about the world or you just follow the majority and what is expected of you?

Who are you living your life for?

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18 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Sometimes some people post something constructive and well intended. I filter out all negativity and read and focus on those constructive post.

Negative feedback can be both well intentioned and, as any electrical engineer knows, constructive...

image.jpeg.c1204319ccefa65ee44d70d3935bc19c.jpeg

Positive feedback scares the hell out of me.

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20 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

I am still waiting for reply from LL product managers regarding my silver mines game project. Lots of people asked me about it and we are all still waiting.

The way I learned that LL works is that if something is not ok with them they let you know but only when it grows big enough to get on their radar.

But with silver mine gamr I don't want risking investing into it and then they would prohibit it.

So I asked for permission and am still waiting.

Business 101. If at first you dont succeed try, try again. Have you tried phoning LL to discuss this?

For such an important and potentially disastrous business move you are proposing it is necessary to hold off on something you are not sure on. This 'idea' you are trying isn't a simple 'if you are wrong, you can just stop doing it and LL will be a-ok'.

This goes beyond LL and impacts directly into State and country laws with potential damaging effects on you personally should credit laws apply and those governing bodies find out you did it behind their back or a SL user is someway impacted and sues you.

As a business owner, I would never put myself in the position you have placed yourself into by simply 'researching on the internet' that you have claimed to do. Such business decisions like this ALWAYS require legal discussions even if it is just in a virtual world.

Very silly move if you ask me without finding out first what LL opinion on the matter is. Not to mention the even thought of it being a very bad move publicity wise considering you are basically describing a near scam like system that can effect every user in SL.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I for one would appreciate more rules, especially on anything connected to financial operations inside SL.

Hey I agree on that with you.

But the way LL set their policy mostly is like:

"You can do whatever you want in SL until we tell you that something that you do you can not".

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4 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

But the way LL set their policy mostly is like:

"You can do whatever you want in SL until we tell you that something that you do you can not".

Hmm.. I must have missed that clause in the ToS. Can you please provide it to me so I can use it to hide a system from LL that counters the ToS and abuses consumer protections within second life as well?

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10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Wili isn't the only one, he's just the only one dumb enough to post about it on the official forums.

Coffee behave pls O.. O

I don't think you are dumb even if you do or say something dumb. 

I don't think you need to resort to name calling or call someone dumb.

 

Maybe the reason I am posting on public LL forum is to get it to attention of LL faster so that they let me know its ok or not ok with them faster. That is in my books opposite from dumb.

I don't want to do anything in SL that would be against the rules and the vision / spirit of the LL owners and their managers. 

At the same time I want to do everything and anything possible to make SL more successful with largest growing community.

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Just now, Wili Clip said:

Maybe the reason I am posting on public LL forum is to get it to attention of LL faster so that they let me know its ok or not ok with them faster. That is in my books opposite from dumb.

I don't want to do anything in SL that would be against the rules and the vision / spirit of the LL owners and their managers. 

Um... So let me get this straight you want to find out whether you can do such a thing legally within Second Life but have implemented it already per your OP...

LIKE WHAT? 😄

 

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7 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:
13 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

But the way LL set their policy mostly is like:

"You can do whatever you want in SL until we tell you that something that you do you can not".

Hmm.. I must have missed that clause in the ToS. Can you please provide it to me so I can use it to hide a system from LL that counters the ToS and abuses consumer protections within second life as well?

Correction:

Everything that you want in case if its not already prohibited by LL terms of service and known policies. 

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12 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Um... So let me get this straight you want to find out whether you can do such a thing legally within Second Life but have implemented it already per your OP...

LIKE WHAT? 😄

I don't think it illegal.

If it is illegal or if I am breaking any law I guess one of the customers will file a lawsuit? Maybe you for violating consumer rights?

Or I am going to be contacted by any of government with new laws about it and be asked to cease such activity or will be informed that for it I need such and such license and where to apply.

Edited by Wili Clip
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