virtual goods Selling virtual goods on CREDIT (interest free)

[Lindal Kidd]

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Positive feedback scares the hell out of me.

Fun example: Try raising X to the Xth power to the Xth power to the Xth power... n times. If X is larger than sqrt 2, it will balloon very fast to a number that is too large to express.  I mean, larger than all the atoms in the universe.

[Qie Niangao]

Maybe a couple weeks ago I was investigating one of these threads and stumbled around Marketplace a bit. I'll confirm that there's some pretty obvious copying going on; compare these store searches:

• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/77098/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"
• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/119922/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"

That said, DMCA has always had pretty strict requirements, as @Charlotte Bartlett points out, and I won't hazard a guess as to why these two stores still share so much IP. It is very unusual.

Also, I can see that these pay-for-traffic products are distinctly different from the pure fishing community products that came before (e.g., 7Seas), enough to be clearly different from a DMCA legal* standpoint. Some of us might quibble with calling them meaningfully "innovative" in that they basically combine the longstanding SL fishing pastime with the longstanding SL "camping" hobby (with a little third party margin-skimming on the side), but "innovation" is a subtly culture-specific concept.

________________
*I am not a lawyer (as far as you need to know)

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Wili Clip said:

We sent DMCA many years ago LL lawyers responded they received it initially but then they just ignored.

That's definitely a lie. LL complies with the DMCA...they have to, or face really awful penalties. They must remove the alleged infringing content.

[Finite]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Maybe a couple weeks ago I was investigating one of these threads and stumbled around Marketplace a bit. I'll confirm that there's some pretty obvious copying going on; compare these store searches:

• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/77098/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"
• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/119922/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"

That said, DMCA has always had pretty strict requirements, as @Charlotte Bartlett points out, and I won't hazard a guess as to why these two stores still share so much IP. It is very unusual.

Also, I can see that these pay-for-traffic products are distinctly different from the pure fishing community products that came before (e.g., 7Seas), enough to be clearly different from a DMCA legal* standpoint. Some of us might quibble with calling them meaningfully "innovative" in that they basically combine the longstanding SL fishing pastime with the longstanding SL "camping" hobby (with a little third party margin-skimming on the side), but "innovation" is a subtly culture-specific concept.

________________
*I am not a lawyer (as far as you need to know)

I honestly don't get the traffic generating concept at all. The cost of some of these items which may or may not generate traffic or may or may not generate the target audience you are looking for. I feel like that cost could be far better used paying a group that actually promotes things.

And to be honest, these types of gimmicks and ad banners are part of the reason I avoid going to mainland at all.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Finite

[Wili Clip]

16 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Maybe a couple weeks ago I was investigating one of these threads and stumbled around Marketplace a bit. I'll confirm that there's some pretty obvious copying going on; compare these store searches:

• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/77098/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"
• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/119922/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"

That said, DMCA has always had pretty strict requirements, as @Charlotte Bartlett points out, and I won't hazard a guess as to why these two stores still share so much IP. It is very unusual.

Also, I can see that these pay-for-traffic products are distinctly different from the pure fishing community products that came before (e.g., 7Seas), enough to be clearly different from a DMCA legal* standpoint. Some of us might quibble with calling them meaningfully "innovative" in that they basically combine the longstanding SL fishing pastime with the longstanding SL "camping" hobby (with a little third party margin-skimming on the side), but "innovation" is a subtly culture-specific concept.

________________
*I am not a lawyer (as far as you need to know)

Oh Qie Niangao you found my shadow. The 1st link is my original game and the 2nd link you found is the copy guy who copies my every product I make in SL  and Linden Lab ignored my DMCA many years ago and I haven't attempt to make new ones + I don't want to risk LL doing a mistake and in a possibility of a counter claim remove my original products.

It is just not worth it. Beside I think the copy is actually in some way promoting my original as most players who start playing the copy end up playing the original as they figure out original has bigger community.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Wili Clip

[Rowan Amore]

55 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Maybe a couple weeks ago I was investigating one of these threads and stumbled around Marketplace a bit. I'll confirm that there's some pretty obvious copying going on; compare these store searches:

• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/77098/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"
• https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/119922/search?search[keywords]="fish+hunt"

That said, DMCA has always had pretty strict requirements, as @Charlotte Bartlett points out, and I won't hazard a guess as to why these two stores still share so much IP. It is very unusual.

Also, I can see that these pay-for-traffic products are distinctly different from the pure fishing community products that came before (e.g., 7Seas), enough to be clearly different from a DMCA legal* standpoint. Some of us might quibble with calling them meaningfully "innovative" in that they basically combine the longstanding SL fishing pastime with the longstanding SL "camping" hobby (with a little third party margin-skimming on the side), but "innovation" is a subtly culture-specific concept.

________________
*I am not a lawyer (as far as you need to know)

If you look at the profile for the person who owns the stores you've linked, it says

For failed deliveries or issues with products please send an IM or a notecard to Wili Clip

[Rowan Amore]

Funny, the second account was made almost exactly one year after the first.

[Dragon Mommy]

The longer these threads go on the more shady all of this looks. 

[RunawayBunny]

What exactly he copied? I cant see any texture or rod model copied from your product? Scripts perhaps but how LL had some trouble with script protection but It is fixed long time ago.

If your assets not copied or stolen DMCA can't do anything. In SL I have seen 2 DMCA take downs both related with a texture copy claim.

Take example first battle royale game (PUBG) have many copies (Apex, Fortnite etc..)

You can still make same game model and sell it. Those games have exact game play (with added extra features) and exact same market but they don't have any copied assets (graphic, animation, code).

Edited March 26, 2021 by RunawayBunny

[Solar Legion]

No, Linden Lab did not ignore your DMCA - period. The process has - since they began allowing it - remained fairly consistent (all one has to do to verify this is go looking through this forum - perhaps a few others): You file, Linden Lab removes the offending item (or items if more than one are named), the accused then has the option to counter your claim at which point Linden Lab reinstates the items and you must take the issue to court to settle it.

There are and have never been any exceptions to this.

No, this is not up for debate/discussion. The above is how it has been.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Solar Legion
Missing "are"

[Rowan Amore]

[Charlotte Bartlett]

 

I have NEVER since 2006 seen them NOT follow the requirements under the Digital Millennium CopyrightAct.   They have always done so, it may take some time historically e.g.  it's not instant but if you PROPERLY file a takedown notice it's absolutely done and within 2 business days now. 

I note there was no response to my asking for the details on this alleged claim against Linden Lab Wil made.   I am sure this is doing wonders for his relationship with them on his faux credit product proposal.

Walking a very thin line.
ps it's The IP Team at Linden Lab who write the responses.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Charlotte Bartlett

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

That's definitely a lie. LL complies with the DMCA...they have to, or face really awful penalties. They must remove the alleged infringing content.

 

3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

No, Linden Lab did not ignore your DMCA - period. The process has - since they began allowing it - remained fairly consistent (all one has to do to verify this is go looking through this forum - perhaps a few others): You file, Linden Lab removes the offending item (or items if more than one are named), the accused then has the option to counter your claim at which point Linden Lab reinstates the items and you must take the issue to court to settle it.

There are and have never been any exceptions to this.

No, this is not up for debate/discussion. The above is how it has been.

 

51 minutes ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

 

I have NEVER since 2006 seen them NOT follow the requirements under the Digital Millennium CopyrightAct.   They have always done so, it may take some time historically e.g.  it's not instant but if you PROPERLY file a takedown notice it's absolutely done and within 2 business days now. 

I note there was no response to my asking for the details on this alleged claim against Linden Lab Wil made.   I am sure this is doing wonders for his relationship with them on his faux credit product proposal.

Walking a very thin line.
ps it's The IP Team at Linden Lab who write the responses.

I'll add to these. Say what you want about the Lab, the one thing they will always do is the bare minimum the law requires, for good or bad. 

[Dragon Mommy]

30 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

 

I'll add to these. Say what you want about the Lab, the one thing they will always do is the bare minimum the law requires, for good or bad. 

100%

Though the only other reason that LL might ignore a DMCA is that it was improperly filed. If you do not properly fill it out, they cannot do anything. 

But I have a feeling what happened here is the other party submitted their counter claim which means Wili, you would need to take them to court... And given the information shared here it might not be a good idea to go through with the Discovery process. 

And to be fair I can't see the case being all that worthwhile anyway for slices of virtual market. 

[Wili Clip]

Back then there was no form to fill out... so we sent our own document according to instructions written by LL regarding DMCA. The response by LL ip team was that they will process the claim and then after that there were no further responses from LL.

At least they could reply and let us know in case if it was not properly filled like some assume. There was no further reply and I have left it with that.

ok went to my mail history to get you the response from LL. It was in year 2013. After that email there were no further emails sent by the ipteam...

Quote

 

Intellectual Property Team <ipteam@lindenlab.com>

Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 1:39 AM

to me

 

Linden Lab has received your notification of copyright infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), 17 U.S.C. § 512.

We are currently processing your claim(s) and will notify you when your claim(s) has been resolved.

Sincerely,

The IP Team at Linden Lab

[c:7720]

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Wili Clip

[SiennaKeti]

I don't see the point in these traffic games. He makes new games tells LL halted them because he violated LL Tos or tells people some one hacked him and the lindens in your account are gone. He moves on to new games as if nothing happened or won't give refunds for Loss. Land Owners pay into buoys and players have to buy expensive stuff to earn so only 1 person is benifitting. If something happens he won't refund anything

It is better Linden Labs make Games to earn lindens than shady people or Bigger brands in Sl make traffic games

[Solar Legion]

That's nice. Meanwhile, they have not changed much of anything whatsoever regarding how the DMCA procedure is handled.

Which means that either your DMCA was improperly filed in some way or the person you filed against, counter-filed.

Beginning and end of.

You've shown your hand and colors. Good day.

[wesleytron]

17 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

My fishing game is not a copy of any of above and is very different.

Is it different in the way that Google+ was like, totally different to Facebook? Google+ had "circles" while Facebook has "friends"

Or in the way McDowell's is nothing like McDonald's? McDonald’s has the golden arches, McDowell’s has the golden arcs. McDonald’s has the Big Mac, but McDowell’s has the Big Mick. Totally different.

[Wili Clip]

9 hours ago, SiennaKeti said:

He makes new games tells LL halted them because he violated LL Tos...

The 1 game you are mentioning that I was asked to stop and then in talks with LL we agreed to change some core element of it.

It was not because it violated TOS. But because of concern that some players could abuse the game for money laundering and they cited other possible legal complications.

Yes it was a very successful new game and it was launched in alpha stage. All players were told that its in alpha experimental stage and what that means. But despite that interest was very big.

The plan to continue that game is set and it was publicly released. The reason why I am not investing time, money and work for releasing it again is because I want to have re-confirmation of LL that that under new redesign they don't see a problem with it.

I sent the technical description of the game to LL product management and awaiting for correspondence.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Wili Clip

[Wili Clip]

9 hours ago, SiennaKeti said:

It is better Linden Labs make Games to earn lindens than shady people or Bigger brands in Sl make traffic games

I am not a shady person. And we actually own the biggest brands of games that let people earn lindens. We have been successfully running them now for 10 years and have valuable knowledge and experience in doing so that even LL doesn't have.

We own biggest and fastest growing SL gaming group (over 44000 members in the group). Over 500 000 registered accounts and 10s of thousands monthly active players.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, wesleytron said:

Is it different in the way that Google+ was like, totally different to Facebook? Google+ had "circles" while Facebook has "friends"

Or in the way McDowell's is nothing like McDonald's? McDonald’s has the golden arches, McDowell’s has the golden arcs. McDonald’s has the Big Mac, but McDowell’s has the Big Mick. Totally different.

 

 

Aren't they still in court over the names? I think it was Mickey D's that filed suit against McDowell's.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Selene Gregoire

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

The 1 game you are mentioning that I was asked to stop and then in talks with LL we agreed to change some core element of it.

It was not because it violated TOS. But because of concern that some players could abuse the game for money laundering and they cited other possible legal complications.

 

This is exactly the wild-west-srs-bizness that casts a shadow over anyone even considering bring legitimate business to SL.

Jail cell innovative finance at it's finest. 👨‍🍳💋

 

2 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

I sent the technical description of the game to LL product management and awaiting for correspondence.