FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Orwar said: The burden of evidence is on the one who makes the claim. God does not exist, because there's no proof; none has been produced in millennia. Other than the love that Jesus spoke about, I have no need of religious practices. But, it is interesting how ancient Christianity spoke of the eternal and how they believed we were in a world without end as well as God is eternal. The universe consists of atoms. Atoms are eternal and can neither be created (by us) nor destroyed. Edited March 11, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just now, Luna Bliss said: lol, well not talking about levitating and transcending space and time necessarily. I'm more meaning to learn to have more love in one's life, which is one of the biggest miracles in my book given all the difficulties we must face in this life. So you're tellin me, You won't be needing my Horseman archery and Bo staff skills in this thread? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I may look out at a tree in my RL or SL garden one moment and it is a mere combination of green stuff called 'leaves' along with a brown scaly blob of something called 'bark' intermixed, not signifying much of anything really, having no meaning or beauty. Yet another day I may apprehend this tree and it is the most amazing object I've ever witnessed and I am elated by its beauty. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, Orwar said: God is a man-made theory, nature isn't. Or man is God-made theory. That is more plausable since we are not capable of self creation whether the abiogenesis event postulated by science or the creative one postulated by creationists? The burden of proof lies on you for that event as you are making the claim the abiogenesis one happened without any creator being. Even this "nature" that you speak of is a set of laws upon which this universe operates but being that it is possible that there are other universes that operate unnaturally, the question is, How did these natural laws come to be operative in this one? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I may look out at a tree in my RL or SL garden one moment and it is a mere combination of green stuff called 'leaves' along with a brown scaly blob of something called 'bark' intermixed, not signifying much of anything really, having no meaning or beauty. Yet another day I may apprehend this tree and it is the most amazing object I've ever witnessed and I am elated by its beauty. Wanna know something really neat about trees? OKAY!! I'll tell ya! Juus calm down.. hehehe Seriously.. I may have already told you this before or you heard me menti9on it another time or something.. Annyways, Take a look at the base of a tree, any tree, then go up the the first branch point in the tree.. You'll notice that branch point pattern is consistent throughout the whole tree.. Follow out any branch and branches, even to the leaves. you'll see the same pattern as the first branch point. It's not only consistent with that tree, but forests work the same way with patterns of trees.. it's so consistent that they can take CO2 measurements from one tree to tell how well a whole certain area of forest is doing.. Fractals in nature.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: Atoms are eternal and can neither be created (by us) nor destroyed. Atoms can be split (nuclear fission) and merged (nuclear fusion) to create other elements (and, more importantly for our practical purposes, energy), and we can change the elemental properties of atoms (like, turning platinum into gold in an extremely cost-inefficient nuclear reaction: https://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2014/05/02/can-gold-be-created-from-other-elements/). What we can't do is subtract from the mass of the universe; we can never truly delete anything from existence, nor create anything out of nothing. At least not through any means known to us today. ... Side-eyes those wily Dutch suspiciously. 29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: Other than the love that Jesus spoke about, I have no need of religious practices. One can love without Jesus, too. Love is older than Christianity, and the concept of love is pretty much universally included in all of the world's religions and cultures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Even this "nature" that you speak of is a set of laws upon which this universe operates but being that it is possible that there are other universes that operate unnaturally, the question is, How did these natural laws come to be operative in this one? "Unnaturally?" That would be pretty tricky for something as complicated as a "universe." What might be possible is their operating with a different natural system. But, if they exist the same way our "universe" exists, why would you separate them at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Orwar said: Atoms can be split Atoms can split or be fragmented but they cannot be destroyed. Atoms can still exist or consider to be still alive even at a very low level. Edited March 11, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Orwar said: One can love without Jesus, too. Love is older than Christianity, and the concept of love is pretty much universally included in all of the world's religions and cultures. I'm not saying one cannot love, but the love Jesus was speaking about was different. Love is the fulfillment of the law, love does no harm to it's neighbor. Plus, many philosophers say that brotherly love is the most difficult to obtain. If one looks throughout history, I'd have to say that is true. The love does no harm to it's neighbor hardly exists if one looks through the vast majority of history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: Love is the fulfillment of the law, love does no harm to it's neighbor. Plus, many philosophers say that brotherly love is the most difficult to obtain. If one looks throughout history, I'd have to say that is true. The love does no harm to it's neighbor hardly exists if one looks through the vast majority of history. Frequently because of ... Oh, right. Not that the history wouldn't be stuffed to the brim with conflict without it, but it's been a frequent casus belli, and if not the direct cause, it has been one of the primary authorities to accommodate it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Orwar said: The burden of evidence is on the one who makes the claim. God does not exist, because there's no proof; none has been produced in millennia. What proof has been produced in that time is that having an imaginary friend after whom you can create a cult with the express purpose of accumulating wealth and power through prosecution is profitable. You're the one who's making the claim that God doesn't exist. This means, according to your rules, you need to provide the evidence. You still haven't told us what the God that doesn't exist would be either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 16 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said: If life is too complicated to evolve without a creator, how did the creator, which logically would be more complicated, come into being? Ha! You know the answer, Theresa. It's turtles, all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, Orwar said: Frequently because of ... Oh, right. Not that the history wouldn't be stuffed to the brim with conflict without it, but it's been a frequent casus belli, and if not the direct cause, it has been one of the primary authorities to accommodate it. Yes, I agree with that but on a deeper level where it enters into hypocrisy - the you're the sinner, I'm not. I think religions are arguing and defending their own beliefs. Cave men nor people before organized religion were any better at brotherly/sisterly love of whom they considered foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Ha! You know the answer, Theresa. It's turtles, all the way down. Welcome to Turtle Island!! \o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Welcome to Turtle Island!! \o/ I love turtles but not for soup at all. My parents had a giant turtle when I was kid that I could ride on. He was a wonderful creature and seemed to like us. We kept him in our back yard. Edited March 11, 2021 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: I love turtles but not for soup at all. My parents had a giant turtle when I was kid that I could ride on. He was a wonderful creature and seemed to like us. We kept him in our back yard. Turtle Island is the North America continent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Turtle Island is the North America continent... Because the earth was created on a turtle's back? Yes, that's probably true. For some Indigenous peoples, Turtle Island refers to the continent of North America. The name comes from various Indigenous oral histories that tell stories of a turtle that holds the world on its back. Artistic interpretation of an island growing atop a turtle's back. ... Edited March 11, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: Because the earth was created on a turtle's back? Yes, that's probably true. For some Indigenous peoples, Turtle Island refers to the continent of North America. The name comes from various Indigenous oral histories that tell stories of a turtle that holds the world on its back. Artistic interpretation of an island growing atop a turtle's back. ... The reason I said it at all was to play with Maddy.. Then felt I had to show i wasn't really referring to turtle turtles.. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 18 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said: If life is too complicated to evolve without a creator, how did the creator, which logically would be more complicated, come into being? This is always an odd question to me. It leads to infinite regression, who created that creator... and so on. At some point there has to be an created creator stop the regression. Everyone wants to call that uncreated creator god. Which may be a reasonable supposition. But then, which god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said: Wanna know something really neat about trees? OKAY!! I'll tell ya! Juus calm down.. hehehe Seriously.. I may have already told you this before or you heard me menti9on it another time or something.. Annyways, Take a look at the base of a tree, any tree, then go up the the first branch point in the tree.. You'll notice that branch point pattern is consistent throughout the whole tree.. Follow out any branch and branches, even to the leaves. you'll see the same pattern as the first branch point. It's not only consistent with that tree, but forests work the same way with patterns of trees.. it's so consistent that they can take CO2 measurements from one tree to tell how well a whole certain area of forest is doing.. Fractals in nature.. Interesting...I didn't know that about trees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 @Arielle Popstar I've been intrigued by some of your stories in the past relating to people in some of the groups you've led and participated in personally (those addicted to substances and harmful behaviors). In order to overcome the harmful conditions an appeal to a greater reality is made, a new way of being beyond their current experience. It requires a leap of faith to become something else, a trust that one can indeed become a new person, a trust that this more expansive and healthy way exists and is safe though unfamiliar. It requires trust in a higher power (or I like to say trust in a deeper power ) -- the name we give the process really doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Interesting...I didn't know that about trees... If I can find this one documentary, I'll link it for you.. It's really amazing. ETA: Well ,that didn't take me long to find.. hehehehe Edited March 11, 2021 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: The reason I said it at all was to play with Maddy.. Then felt I had to show i wasn't really referring to turtle turtles.. hehehe What is interesting about an ancient, possibly North American and Central American belief in this north land being created on the back of a turtle is believed (?) may come from the story of Noah. So, one can conclude that either a) vistors visted the Northern peoples here but knew the Old Testament only, or b) they traveled here from some land that knew the story of Noah and the "great flood", or c) simply knew of a "great flood". As far as atoms, I simply brought them up at how interesting it is how our ancients believed the universe had eternal elements in it, but mostly eternal from God. Edited March 11, 2021 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 20 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said: 18 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said: If life is too complicated to evolve without a creator, how did the creator, which logically would be more complicated, come into being? This is always an odd question to me. It leads to infinite regression, who created that creator... and so on. At some point there has to be an created creator stop the regression. Everyone wants to call that uncreated creator god. Which may be a reasonable supposition. But then, which god? It's difficult for the human mind to conceive of infinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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