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1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't in any way personally buy that Christ was divine, or that there is a bearded gentleman in the clouds overseeing us all

Luckily, no one in here seems to be personally selling those, either!

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Hiya folks. Science is not about truth. Scientists do not claim to hold the truth. Science is merely the art of not BS-sing yourself or others, while trying to understand things and make predictions b

The term "genocide" was coined in 1944. Historians researching wars prior to then will never find the word "genocide" in accounts of those times, so it takes more careful analysis of the historical re

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51 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I am reminded of this...

Substitute "inspired texts" for "flying saucers".

You were the one that got me hooked on him..  I just really enjoy listening to him explain things..

He could have me glued just talking about an empty shoe box and how it's really not empty..

Wasn't he the one that found out what happened to the challenger space shuttle also?

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2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:
20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, I'm sure you know the answer to that....what is 'inspired' is relative to the person or culture.

So this leads us to define clearly just what 'inspired' actually means..

I don't think you're going to get a clear definition of "inspired".

My "every third letter" example isn't as absurd as it might seem. How many people have been inspired by hidden messages in albums played backwards, or first words taken from lines of poems?

I can know what enhances my life, what literature or experiences in life takes me to a better place, more life-affirming. When I choose to focus on love this indeed occurs.

If I was getting messages from albums played backwards I would seek psychiatric care...

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well what about thinking that perhaps parts of the Bible were inspired?

Why would this be true. If God exists, and He wanted to comunicate with mankind by inspireing men to write what He wanted to say, is He then so powerless that He could not prevent the inspired parts from being mixed up with uninspired parts and thus clowding the issue? isn't much more likely that if God inspires His word, that he is then able to preserve it, and keep it separate from non-inspired writings?

Edited by Talligurl
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25 minutes ago, Talligurl said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well what about thinking that perhaps parts of the Bible were inspired?

Why would this be true. If God exists, and He wanted to comunicate with mankind by inspireing men to write what He wanted to say, is He then so powerless that He could not prevent the inspired parts from being mixed up with uninspired parts and thus clowding the issue? isn't much more likely that if God inspires His word, that he is then able to preserve it, and keep it separate from non-inspired writings?

I believe that God is Love, a big heartfelt YES evident in all of creation. I don't believe God has the type of agency you are pointing to, but instead believe that when we choose to know the characteristics of God, in varying degrees, then greatness (love) can manifest in humans.  It's like we 'tune in to' the more expansive parts of the Universe that always exists.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I am reminded of this...

Substitute "inspired texts" for "flying saucers".

I believe in extraterrestrials more than the bible being the words of a god written down by men.  That's not to say I don't believe in a higher power/being having created us.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I believe that God is Love, a big heartfelt YES evident in all of creation. I don't believe God has the type of agency you are pointing to, but instead believe that when we choose to know the characteristics of God, in varying degrees, then greatness (love) can manifest in humans.  It's like we 'tune in to' the more expansive parts of the Universe that always exist.

So your God doesn't inspire any writings at all, which is fine if that is what you believe. I was merely pointing out that the idea that He inspires some, but not all. is a problamatic notion, it is all of it or none of it.

 

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27 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

You were the one that got me hooked on him..  I just really enjoy listening to him explain things..

He could have me glued just talking about an empty shoe box and how it's really not empty..

Wasn't he the one that found out what happened to the challenger space shuttle also?

Feynman didn't figure it out. He was the willing conduit from unnamed sources to Congress. He knew, as you and I do, that he's a superb and widely respected communicator. So, he did what he does best... communicate.

Here are the unsung heroes...
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/07/974534021/remembering-allan-mcdonald-he-refused-to-approve-challenger-launch-exposed-cover

https://emptysqua.re/blog/who-broke-the-challenger-investigation/

ETA: Added "and widely respected"

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Ooooouuuw… Right to an Alinsky attack. The nails come out. That sort of signals you lost out trying to deal with the merit of my arguments or to provide yours. The shift to opinions of me certainly signals that.

 

In the OP I didn’t set out to disprove evolution. You seemed to have missed the nuance that I was backing up my claim in an earlier thread the Royal Society of London was giving up on Darwin’s hypothesis. Thus, the included quotes taken from that thread. I never said they gave up on ALL hypotheses of evolution.

 

If reputable scientists talk about their observations and then come to conclusions about them, why do you think I am not doing that? Consider.

 

I pointed out I saw the RSoL talking about the problems they were having with the hypothesis and two scientists called 16 experts in evolutionary theory together to come up with a better idea. That is not putting down evolution. It is facing the fact the hypothesis has problems and the RSoL is having problems working through them. This is the scientific method at work.

 

I continued on to point out the facts and the magnitude of the problems they face. I also point out what some of the pro-macro-evolution people have said. They do NOT want to allow god a toe in the door. (Ref) So, they have to find a workable solution that eliminates any supernatural factor. That’s OK. I just have serious doubts they can do it.

 

All the Bible, creationism, intelligent design… that was all brought in by others and you mis-attribute it to me. I have responded to those. That is a nuance…

 

And you have inferred my world view. I have yet to say what I believe or what my world view is beyond it including the idea the RS has problems with Darwin’s hypothesis and coming up with a better hypothesis is going to be hard. One can observe I include a lot of hard facts, scientific and historical, from solid sources. So, concluding I am a skeptic and require good profs in a Euclidian style of thought is also part of my world view is reasonable. You are far off the mark you are funny.

 

Your last couple of sentences pretty much fall off the end of the pier. I think you totally trigger yourself from inferences that aren’t implied.

 

Alt-right… I think you are just trying to be insulting.

 

Creationism is a definite possibility. But you assume/infer I must believe it. I haven’t told you what I think of it.

 

Where did I talk about my view of biblical literalism? Oh yeah, I pointed out that first century people took the beliefs literally. Ah, missing those nuances keeps you triggering yourself. Maybe some good anti-anxiety drugs…

 

Where did you come up with what my concept of god is? I have answered questions that whatever created space-time and matter could not be space-time or matter. But where did I use gender pronouns, describe personality – other than conscious, talk about personality, rules a god might have made… 

 

I have secret knowledge? Neat! What is it? I seem to have forgotten were I talked about those secrets… can you point me back to them?

 

And which points did I write about that ‘supersede science’? I’ve mostly been quoting science and history.

 

Where did you get the idea the idea that 525,000 deaths were caused by my views? Can you really place all those numbers on me when Cuomo’s health order placing people known to have tested positive for covid in nursing homes killed thousands unnecessarily?  And where do you get any idea of which policies killed how many?

 

The NYT is writing about how Cuomo is being investigated for his covering up the real numbers. People hide things when they know they screwed up. (additional references)

 

And that last sentence of yours reveals the bigotry, intolerance, anti-diversity attitude, and suppression philosophy you are promoting. Free speech is obviously not a thing for you.

 

Seems you are trying to bully me into silence and call for violence against me and any who think like me (tamp me down – that is a call to violent action?). I suppose you have to go that way since you can’t argue the merits of these subjects.  And surprisingly you write all that while seemingly trying to virtue signal… remarkable.

 

======= On Another Note =======

 

Earlier in the thread Arduenn Schwartzman (Ref – 3rd paragraph) rejected the idea there is any effort to cancel scientists that reject the idea of evolution. Then Luna provides an example (click ‘expand’ or follow the forum quote-link back to see it) of the societal mindset that demands anyone questioning the establishment’s orthodoxy or departing from it be silenced. I think Luna shows it is present here and how triggering these people brings out a vile response. I contend it is present in even greater strength in the Royal Society and other scientific and academic circles.

 

That this goes on academic circles in all areas is shown by Medical Journal Forces Out Doctor For Questioning ‘Structural Racism’

 

So, it isn’t surprising to me that the RSoL locks it doors and refuses to print meeting minutes when trying to develop a new theory on evolution. The culture of silencing people is obviously chilling scientific and philosophical investigation.

 

@Arduenn Schwartzmanin another post claims my references to cancel culture in the scientific fields are “…those sources of yours are all BS, lies and misinformation.” He uses the appeal to authority tactic. He is in the field for decades so he ‘knows’. He knows so well he doesn’t need to look at the link I provided. So, without noticing the COURT CASES listed as sources in the results he classes them “all BS, lies and misinformation”. He is unaware major news organizations carry the stories… but he may have a point, they often lie…

 

Try this search. Just read the headlines in the results to see how right Arduenn isn't.

 

Not much there beside articles from Christian based websites so yeah, no.  Do you even read anything from your searches?

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2 minutes ago, Talligurl said:
7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I believe that God is Love, a big heartfelt YES evident in all of creation. I don't believe God has the type of agency you are pointing to, but instead believe that when we choose to know the characteristics of God, in varying degrees, then greatness (love) can manifest in humans.  It's like we 'tune in to' the more expansive parts of the Universe that always exist.

So your God doesn't inspire any writings at all, which is fine if that is what you believe. I was merely pointing out that the idea that He inspires some, but not all. is a problamatic notion, it is all of it or none of it.

God is Love, so yes God inspires. The problem I think is that the writers of the Bible tuned into this love some of the time, but not all of the time, because 'man' is not perfect.

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On 3/12/2021 at 8:56 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

We have First Century historians that wrote about people dying for their belief plus Roman records relate their actions regarding the Christians.

A great way to..inspire more new members!

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2 hours ago, Talligurl said:

This fact in no way proves that it was not divinely inspired. the deity very well could have used that oral tradition to bring the Bible to mankind. People are always trying to point to the history of the text to somehow prove it is just another human writing, but nothing in the history actually proves this. It only tells us the mechanism that the deity used to bring it into being if in fact it is inspired.

 

17 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

Why would this be true. If God exists, and He wanted to comunicate with mankind by inspireing men to write what He wanted to say, is He then so powerless that He could not prevent the inspired parts from being mixed up with uninspired parts and thus clowding the issue? isn't much more likely that if God inspires His word, that he is then able to preserve it, and keep it separate from non-inspired writings?

Where do the Bible books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees (the books that are part of the Catholic but not the Protestant Bible) fall?

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7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I believe in extraterrestrials more than the bible being the words of a god written down by men.  That's not to say I don't believe in a higher power/being having created us.

Feynman wasn't arguing against the existence of extraterrestrials, just against the likelihood that unidentified flying objects were their spaceships.

Similarly, Feynman never argued against the existence of God...

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/04/richard-feynman-how-scientists-can-believe-in-god.html

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13 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

So your God doesn't inspire any writings at all, which is fine if that is what you believe. I was merely pointing out that the idea that He inspires some, but not all. is a problamatic notion, it is all of it or none of it.

 

That's what Evangelicals believe but that is not what all of Christendom believes.  Theresa is specifically addressing the issue to you with the Apocrypha. 

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13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Feynman didn't figure it out. He was the willing conduit from unnamed sources to Congress. He knew, as you and I do, that he's a superb and widely respected communicator. So, he did what he does best... communicate.

Here are the unsung heroes...
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/07/974534021/remembering-allan-mcdonald-he-refused-to-approve-challenger-launch-exposed-cover

https://emptysqua.re/blog/who-broke-the-challenger-investigation/

ETA: Added "and widely respected"

I remember seeing something on that and the president at the time wanting him to say something to the press or sign something  or take something back that he said and he wouldn't.. Kind of like wanting him to cover something up, but he stood his ground..

I can't really remember what it was and can't find that video..

But I found this one.. I just really think he's as cool as ice water on a hot summer day..

 

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15 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

 

Where do the Bible books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees (the books that are part of the Catholic but not the Protestant Bible) fall?

Obviously the Catholics think the Protestant Bible is incomplete, The protestant's think the catholics have added books that do not belong. While the two have different opinions on what is inspired, They both hold to a complete body of inspired texts,

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8 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

Obviously the Catholics think the Protestant Bible is incomplete, The protestant's think the catholics have added books that do not belong. While the two have different opinions on what is inspired, They both hold to a complete body of inspired texts,

What about texts from other religious or spiritual traditions compared to the Bible? While there are some similarities, often they differ greatly.

Do you believe only the Bible was truly inspired by God?  If you don't, how do you account for these other traditions being so different from the Bible?

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11 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

 The protestant's think the catholics have added books that do not belong.

No, that wasn't why.  Luther and other early protestants believed the apocryphal writings held no use for the church.  And, I had already learned that prior to "googling".  Protestants tossing out the apocrypha was merely due to a belief that the writings held no use nor had any value.  

Apocrypha was applied to writings that were hidden not because of their divinity but because of their questionable value to the church. ... While Catholic tradition considers some of these texts to be deuterocanonical, Protestants consider them apocryphal.

Edited by FairreLilette
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Been reading  this thread  and  i have   two question if i may ask. Where  would the Scientology beliefs  fit  ?  Darwin or  other? 

Also how  and were do the haunted lands, waters, houses , trails and ghosts fit into the mix.... how do you explain   sightings and  mysterious  things that happen  at certain land , bodies of water, homes etc and sightings  of ghosts?

Edited by roseelvira
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13 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

Been reading  this thread  and  i have   two question if i may ask. Where  would the Scientology beliefs  fit  ?  Darwin or  other? 

Also how  and were do the haunted lands, waters, houses , trails and ghosts fit into the mix.... how do you explain   sightings and  mysterious  things that happen  at certain land , bodies of water, homes etc and sightings  of ghosts?

Scientology was originally from L Ron Hubbard's book Dianetics and a psychotherapy not a religion.  He only proposed it as a religion after he went bankrupt and lost the rights to the book.  Becoming a non profit religion allowed him to take back control.  

 

Edited by Rowan Amore
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19 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

Been reading  this thread  and  i have   two question if i may ask. Where  would the Scientology beliefs  fit  ?  Darwin or  other? 

I had a friend who was a Scientologist and have forgotten a lot of what they believed.  I know much of their core belief revolves around learning and that learning is key to our survival.  I also remembering them talking about the dynamics and it is through following the dynamics of Scientology that one has a better chance of survival.  Scientologists follows things that are called "dynamics" and I believe there are eight dynamics.  

 

19 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

Also how  and were do the haunted lands, waters, houses , trails and ghosts fit into the mix.... how do you explain   sightings and  mysterious  things that happen  at certain land , bodies of water, homes etc and sightings  of ghosts?

As far as the "paranormal" and how it fits into Christianity was not a part of the OP's opening post.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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15 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

Also how  and were do the haunted lands, waters, houses , trails and ghosts fit into the mix

I'd say they fit right in with the idea that woman was created from the rib of a man, etc etc.

We've reached a point in this thread where I I feel I ought to say that this has been done quite extensively in Anathem, I would refer particularly to the discussion regarding Sconic Thought that occurs in the early part of the journey to the Baysian Monastery.

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Just  googled Scientology  and this is what came up so i am very confused

Scientology describes itself as a religion that was founded in the 1950s by L. Ron Hubbard. At the core of Scientology is a belief that each human has a reactive mind that responds to life's traumas, clouding the analytic mind and keeping us from experiencing reality.

 

Who is the God of Scientology?
 
Xenu (/ˈziːnuː/), also called Xemu, was, according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in DC-8-like spacecraft 75 million years ago, stacked them around volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs.

so would this be darwin  or another   

 

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