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Encroachment Question


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I have a mainland parcel, I've landscaped it and that landscaping includes some trees that I really love.  Recently I got a new neighbour, this neighbour started returning one of the trees.  At first I thought it was somehow impacting his Li for his parcel, so I pulled it back.  Logged in the next day and found it returned again, no message from the person.  So, thinking there was an SL glitch with LI, I linked the tree to another prim that was far in on my parcel to assure there was no LI issues.  Logged in the next day, found it returned again, still with no communication on who was doing it or why.  So I dragged the tree down under my mesh land, and assured that not even a single leaf or branch was in any way touching his parcel and yet again... returned with no explanation except this time I was online when it happened and got the name of the person doing the returning.

I don't want to get into the drama of it, lets just say my polite inquiry was met with not so polite response and then finally a link to the LL article about encroachment.  My tree is no where NEAR his parcel, its not impeding him in any way, and its phantom and yet he's still able to return it.  To combat this, I put the tree in an auto rezzer so that even if he does return it, it just rezzes itself back out again 1 minute later, and now he's informed me I have 24 hours to return it or he's going to file a complaint with LL.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to combat this or what will happen to me if he complains to LL about the encroachment even though my tree is not affecting or impeding his parcel function or access or use in any way?

Here is a top down look at the offending tree in question with my parcel border clearly marked: https://i.gyazo.com/1b9ac8b8cb69ff56db10cea0b1a66146.jpg

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returning encraoching items works only when your items go over the parcel border. This doesn't mean that those items count as Li for your neighbour, but simply hang over his land.
btw.. it doesn't have to be a visible part that encroaches ( mesh or prim trees are often larger than the visible parts.
Also note.. those yellow lines are a nuisance for neighbours.

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the yellow lines are just there to show the parcel boundary for the purpose of clarifying the situation with the tree.  They're not normally there.  For me personally when someone near me puts up something I find unsightly I simply derender it permanently and it goes away. In this instance, I understand that he is able to return it because some part of the invisible physics model crosses onto his land.  My main concern at the moment I guess, is if I leave it as is, and LL gets involved, am I going to get banned or somehow "punished" for my countermeasure?  I tried to ask chat support, apparently they don't answer questions about "governance"

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Question.  If it's not encroaching on his land, how is he able to keep returning it?

Why not just move it inland a bit?

ETA. Those trees can be resized so it won't poke into your home nor over into his land.

 

Edited by Rowan Amore
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I did, I moved it back and then moved it back again.  Its apparently a known bug with the invisible physics model that's allowing him to still return it.  In the end, thanks to the glitch, it seems there's nothing I can do about it except pulling the tree farther and farther back and / or making it smaller and smaller until he can't return it anymore.  I feel petty in this, I mean its just a stupid tree, it just frustrates me when people can't just be civil and talk about things rather than being rude from the get go. 

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I totally understand how annoying it is when a neighbour seems to have an issue with you/your items and is instantly armed to their teeth instead of communicating with you. To my experience with such kind of people, being extra polite is the key. Often enough, they seem to be those kind of people who hold a grudge against humankind in general because they felt treated disrespectful too often (not meaning that you were!), and then they are just rude with everyone, no matter if reasonable or not.

Now I don't know if this is doable for you at all because in all fairness, not everyone has the patience to counter rudeness with kindness. But maybe it was worth it trying to take the wind out of their sails if you explained the situation and your attempts for a solution like you did here, and just offer them to work this out together so both of you get what you wanted. Again, I am aware, this kind of handling aggressiveness is not everyone's cup of tea but perhaps you have the thick skin for these "psychological tricks". Good luck!

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Look at the outline of the tree while you have it in "edit" mode. Do you then see anything (like a yellow outline) crossing over the border? 

I'd be more concerned about the temp rezzer, which can cause lag in a region. Maybe not at one minute intervals, but still, it's not something I'd want next door to me. 

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1 hour ago, Dorian Meredith said:

I did, I moved it back and then moved it back again.  Its apparently a known bug with the invisible physics model that's allowing him to still return it.

You can see the size of the physics model using edit mode maybe check the physics aren't encroaching 

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1 hour ago, Dorian Meredith said:

it just frustrates me when people can't just be civil and talk about things rather than being rude from the get go. 

Welcome to life - both RL and SL.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dorian Meredith said:

Its apparently a known bug with the invisible physics model that's allowing him to still return it.

I don't know if it is really considered a bug or not, as the physics of an item can interfere with movement.  Using Firestorm, 'edit' the tree, go to the Features tab and click on the "eye" next to the Physics Shape Type.  That will show you the physics box in blue.

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One thing I'd suggest in the interest of staying out of trouble with Governance is to disable any auto-rezzing. It's not an inherent violation of the TOS or anything, but it just aggravates the situation. Instead, let's hope the physics box inspection will work, or failing that shrink the trees or make-do with some other trees that won't encroach as these evidently do, despite being visibly far from the line.

This used to be an even worse problem when some sculpts tried to "trick" LOD by being invisibly enormous. As you're seeing, though, mesh can still be pretty bad.

Usually neighbors won't bug you about these things, but you got a prize this time. Maybe they'll get bored and mosey along at some point.

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Well, the OP encroached neighbours parcel and after the tree got returned he rezzed it again a few times. I don't think there is much hope now 😁

If you don't see the encroachment - the neighbour did. Maybe he stumbled over something 😁 Maybe try a sandbox and have a look what might stick out and into what direction.

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Another suggestion for future tree use: Set trees to phantom, so if they DO encroach a bit, at least your neighbors don't whack their heads on them. This may be what got your tree noticed in the first place.

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I've used those trees on many occasions and they do go well beyond what is physically seen.  It makes it difficult at times to edit things around them or rez things near.  Now, I always place those trees last and not near anything I may want to sit on.  It's a pain having to zoom in and under them just to sit on a bench.  Lovely trees but they could be made a bit more user friendly.

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8 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

re-rezzing the returned trees time after time isn't exactly a good way to keep in touch with your neighbour.

It is also not the best way to keep in touch with neighbours by acting like being armed with the penal code.🤷‍♀️

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What's that red line?  Is that the parcel border?  Looks like, from this viewpoint, you ARE over the border:

269648486_overtheborderperhaps.thumb.jpg.8981f2c070b0de2504f0becb884240a6.jpg

Your best bet is to turn on parcel borders, turn on seeing transparencies, rez a prim on the ground, stretch it so it's right up on the border, make it thin, then stretch it up real high until it hits at the top height of your existing objects.  Does it slice through any of them?  If so, you're over the border, and your stuff is returnable.  If not, then it's a glitch, you should document it as such, and file your own AR on your own object(s) stipulating the glitch and could Linden please fix it so it doesn't keep getting returned -- or better yet, come to think of it, fill out a ticket.

Edited by Rabid Cheetah
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If you use Firestorm, you can extend the boundary upward by going to Preferences - Firestorm - Build 2 (tab). Check the box next to "Show boundary up to maximum build height". I find this very handy when trying to tell for sure if I'm accidentally creeping over a border with an object. 

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10 hours ago, Dorian Meredith said:

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to combat this or what will happen to me if he complains to LL about the encroachment even though my tree is not affecting or impeding his parcel function or access or use in any way?

The rules say you mustn't encroach. They don't say a little bit is okay, it doesn't matter if it's the physics, it's fine if it's phantom, it's fine if your neighbour wasn't polite, and so on and so forth. So remove the tree. Don't put it back unless you figure out the issue with it or get a better tree.

In a simple case of encroachment, LL usually just returns the object (when it's one that needs reporting as the landowner can't do it). In this case, you went past that and put the object back repeatedly and then installed a temp rezzer, so I can't see them viewing that well. You really don't want this to go to LL, as the rules are on your neighbour's side.

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2 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

If you use Firestorm, you can extend the boundary upward by going to Preferences - Firestorm - Build 2 (tab). Check the box next to "Show boundary up to maximum build height". I find this very handy when trying to tell for sure if I'm accidentally creeping over a border with an object. 

Didn't know that, gotta go try it.

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22 minutes ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Didn't know that, gotta go try it.

You can also use gth (go to height)   and use whatever height you want to go to..in local chat....gth1000 and the replay in local that will rez a platform.  I always set the platform size small first as it defaults to a larger size than I usually need.  Those are in the preferences/chat/Cmd line tab.

Rez a platform (rezplat): Assuming the avatar has build privileges in the parcel, this command rezzes a circular platform of the given diameter beneath the avatar. Example: “rezplat 25” rezzes a 25m diameter platform below the avatar.

Teleport to altitude (gth): Teleport to the specified height. Example: “gth 2800” teleports to a height of 2800 meters. It is also possible to teleport higher. Example: “gth 6500” teleports to 6500m above the region.

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