I sometimes use intentionally "ugly" avatars in Second Life.

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, Doc Carling said:

Well, if the second pictures mirrors your inner self in rl, you must be a very attractive lady.

Thank you.  If I close my eyes and imagine myself a lot younger, that could be a cousin maybe, or at least a good friend.  At least it's a familiar face for reasons that I cannot explain.  The important thing is that she looks happy and probably well-balanced, which is what I feel inside regardless of what I look like on the outside.

[Talligurl]

46 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

We're not all bad, you know.

I am aware of that

[JanuarySwan]

2 hours ago, Talligurl said:

Because he's a guy.

Or an immersionist perhaps?   An immersionist needs at least people to be closer to how they are in real life I would think.  

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Or an immersionist perhaps?   An immersionist needs at least people to be closer to how they are in real life I would think.  

So everyone in RL is perfect?

13 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

I guess you are kidding? This look is a nightmare. 

What if that was how she looked in RL?  Immersionist  or not, the remark is offensive.

[Doc Carling]

20 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So everyone in RL is perfect?

What if that was how she looked in RL?  Immersionist  or not, the remark is offensive.

Do you like hypothetical What if questions? Here are some more. 135 hypothetical questions.

[AdminGirl]

6 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

I'm not commenting real life looks. I have no right to do that. And nobody is perfect. Neither I. But I apologize, to express an inner self with an Avatar is a little bit to much for me. I was part of the so called good old days in SL. The avatars looked as good as they could depending on the limited technical options. One was forced to accept this. That's different in times of mesh. It is hard for me to imagine that someone can enjoy to look like on your picture.  Because something is sure, the most people react with an OMG on it. Even when they aren't honest to say it loud like I do.

It's ok to not like the look of an av. But you were wrong to speak for everyone else and assume we're all thinking what you're thinking, and that we're just not honest in saying it. No, we're not thinking the same thing. Different looking avs, especially the odd or ususual ones, bring a smile to my face. It makes me think someone has a sense of humor, is adventurous, inventive and interesting. It makes SL more fun and exciting to not be surrounded by only fashion models and to not just focus on making pretty avatars. Sure, making my av pretty is fun too, but to only have one aspect in a virtual world would be boring.

As a human, I tend to attract guys who want to hook up. But I've made more fun friends when I'm suited up in something weird. That kind of thing does show you what people are after.

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

Do you like hypothetical What if questions? Here are some more. 135 hypothetical questions.

Apparently, you just don't have an answer.  Typical.  Your remark was still offensive.

 

[Talligurl]

7 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

An immersionist needs at least people to be closer to how they are in real life I would think.  

I would think that the unltimate immersion would be to be so totally absorbed by SL that all thought of real life would be ignored so that one was conscious of only SL.

[JanuarySwan]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

What if that was how she looked in RL?  Immersionist  or not, the remark is offensive.

The chin and nose are in no way like anyone in real life, the nose and chin are a caricature.  Is it offensive to dislike a caricature?  Perhaps, but I don't care for exaggerated caricature in drawings for example.  I truly dislike them but I would not say that to someone who presents there caricature drawings here on SL forum.  I still sensed immersionist regarding the frog legs as well as saying he would not be friends with a frog.  Many immersionists would not.  They think it's silly.  

Caricature  

a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

10 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

13 hours ago, Talligurl said:

Because he's a guy.

Or an immersionist perhaps?   An immersionist needs at least people to be closer to how they are in real life I would think.  

We relate to RL or SL from various levels or a combination of levels in our human minds -- physical, emotional, and mental (and some would add spiritual).
I'm an immersionist, but I only need the latter three levels to be the same in SL to be an immersionist. For others they might need the physical too.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

11 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

What if that was how she looked in RL?  Immersionist  or not, the remark is offensive.

The chin and nose are in no way like anyone in real life, the nose and chin are a caricature.  Is it offensive to dislike a caricature?  Perhaps, but I don't care for exaggerated caricature in drawings for example.  I truly dislike them but I would not say that to someone who presents there caricature drawings here on SL forum.  I still sensed immersionist regarding the frog legs as well as saying he would not be friends with a frog.  Many immersionists would not.  They think it's silly.  

I think what you're referring to here is aesthetics -- the perception of beauty (a set of principles concerned with the nature and appreciation of beauty, especially in art).
From various perceptual tests it is known that (generally) balance and harmony is perceived as beautiful by humans. A caricature presents the human form in a very unbalanced state, so not surprising that you would find caricatures unappealing. However, some people do find odd, unusual, or novel things beautiful.
I do wonder how malleable the human brain is in this regard. For example, if one was the type who did not find unbalanced characteristics beautiful could they train themselves to find unbalanced things beautiful?

I think you might be championing for the right of any individual to maintain their perceptions and actions based on their aesthetic sense without being labeled as somehow 'wrong'. I agree with this part, but I'd say they're superficial if that's ALL they base the value of another person on, because after all there are other levels to a person as well.

[JanuarySwan]

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A caricature presents the human form in a very unbalanced state, so not surprising that you would find caricatures unappealing.

That's not why I dislike caricature drawings in real life.  I dislike caricature drawings in real life because I find them mean.  If one does a caricature of themselves, that's fine, but don't draw people with exaggerated features to make a joke of them which is what many caricatures drawings do in real life - make fun of others.  That's my opinion of them.   A caricature artist takes certain features on a person and makes them grotesque or funny, to me not funny.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think what you're referring to here is aesthetics -- the perception of beauty (a set of principles concerned with the nature and appreciation of beauty, especially in art).
From various perceptual tests it is known that (generally) balance and harmony is perceived as beautiful by humans. A caricature presents the human form in a very unbalanced state, so not surprising that you would find caricatures unappealing. However, some people do find odd, unusual, or novel things beautiful.
I do wonder how malleable the human brain is in this regard. For example, if one was the type who did not find unbalanced characteristics beautiful could they train themselves to find unbalanced things beautiful?

I think you might be championing for the right of any individual to maintain their perceptions and actions based on their aesthetic sense without being labeled as somehow 'wrong'. I agree with this part, but I'd say they're superficial if that's ALL they base the value of another person on, because after all there are other levels to a person as well.

While I agree with what has been said in regards to what people find attractive or unattractive, to say someone looks like a nightmare is still offensive.  Rolig has gone on to explain how she sees and represents herself in SL but what if that were the way she looked in RL?  What if another forum member may identify with the look she posted.  All I was saying was immersive or not, personal preference or not, caricature or not, the statement is offensive.

On 3/7/2021 at 9:53 AM, Doc Carling said:

I guess you are kidding? This look is a nightmare. 

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, JanuarySwan said:

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A caricature presents the human form in a very unbalanced state, so not surprising that you would find caricatures unappealing.

That's not why I dislike caricature drawings in real life.  I dislike caricature drawings in real life because I find them mean.  If one does a caricature of themselves, that's fine, but don't draw people with exaggerated features to make a joke of them which is what many caricatures drawings do in real life - make fun of others.  That's my opinion of them.  

Yes I see your point. I have seen caricatures that were not used to make fun of someone though. Do you find positive caricatures "mean" as well?

[JanuarySwan]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes I see your point. I have seen caricatures that were not used to make fun of someone though. Do you find positive caricatures "mean" as well?

I don't think I have ever seen a positive caricature drawing in real life.  The heart of caricature is comic or grotesque as in grotesquely exaggerated and to make their features now appear ugly.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think what you're referring to here is aesthetics -- the perception of beauty (a set of principles concerned with the nature and appreciation of beauty, especially in art).
From various perceptual tests it is known that (generally) balance and harmony is perceived as beautiful by humans. A caricature presents the human form in a very unbalanced state, so not surprising that you would find caricatures unappealing. However, some people do find odd, unusual, or novel things beautiful.
I do wonder how malleable the human brain is in this regard. For example, if one was the type who did not find unbalanced characteristics beautiful could they train themselves to find unbalanced things beautiful?

I think you might be championing for the right of any individual to maintain their perceptions and actions based on their aesthetic sense without being labeled as somehow 'wrong'. I agree with this part, but I'd say they're superficial if that's ALL they base the value of another person on, because after all there are other levels to a person as well.

Expand  

While I agree with what has been said in regards to what people find attractive or unattractive, to say someone looks like a nightmare is still offensive.  Rolig has gone on to explain how she sees and represents herself in SL but what if that were the way she looked in RL?  What if another forum member may identify with the look she posted.  All I was saying was immersive or not, personal preference or not, caricature or not, the statement is offensive.

On 3/7/2021 at 8:53 AM, Doc Carling said:

I guess you are kidding? This look is a nightmare. 

Yes, I agree it's offensive. It's anyone's right to think it, of course, but some people feel they have a right to say whatever dribble runs through their mind -- they don't either comprehend or care about what is socially offensive.

[JanuarySwan]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

While I agree with what has been said in regards to what people find attractive or unattractive, to say someone looks like a nightmare is still offensive.  Rolig has gone on to explain how she sees and represents herself in SL but what if that were the way she looked in RL?  What if another forum member may identify with the look she posted.  All I was saying was immersive or not, personal preference or not, caricature or not, the statement is offensive.

 

The stating you must be joking and this look is a nightmare is what caricatures do and that is why I do not like them.  They make fun of others and make their features stand out as something to be laughed at.  Doing one of yourself is okay to me but of others I cannot stand them.

As far as it being offense, I think he said he wanted to be honest. Why, I don't know.  I would not want to be honest, even about one's drawings of others I would stay out of it.

But, he can speak for himself.  I feel you are beating a dead horse now going on about it over and over.  Do you want an apology from him?  No one has a chin like that in real life.

[Luna Bliss]

16 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes I see your point. I have seen caricatures that were not used to make fun of someone though. Do you find positive caricatures "mean" as well?

I don't think I have ever seen a positive caricature drawing in real life.  The heart of caricature is comic or grotesque as in grotesquely exaggerated and to make their features now appear ugly. 

Hmmm...I might have to find one for you. I think ones I've seen border more on comical, even if distorted. Not all people find distorted objects ugly, especially when meant to be comical. 

Or perhaps I should say they might find them ugly, but it's okay because the artistic representation is meant to be funny.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

The stating you must be joking and this look is a nightmare is what caricatures do and that is why I do not like them.  They make fun of others and make their features stand out as something to be laughed at.  Doing one of yourself is okay to me but of others I cannot stand them.

As far as it being offense, I think he said he wanted to be honest. Why, I don't know.  I would not want to be honest, even about one's drawings of others I would stay out of it.

But, he can speak for himself.  I feel you are beating a dead horse now going on about it over and over.  Do you want an apology from him?  No one has a chin like that in real life.

Because you continue to defend it using the caricature reference.  If she had said it was a caricature, that's an entirely different thing.  They are meant to be exaggerations.  I certainly don't want nor expect an apology.

 

[JanuarySwan]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Because you continue to defend it using the caricature reference.  If she had said it was a caricature, that's an entirely different thing.  They are meant to be exaggerations.  I certainly don't want nor expect an apology.

 

That chin does not look the same as the avatar presented on page one of this thread because the chin on page looks deformed and misshapen.

I don't know how to do a double quote here but the one presented on the first page is a caricature.  This I do not see this photo as the same.  

[Rowan Amore]

🙄

[JanuarySwan]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

🙄

You are the one who wants to keep beating your dead horse.  It's like only Rowan can see what is or isn't a caricature.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

the one presented on the first page is a caricature. 

Actually, I'm pretty sure it truly is an SL shape and it is just the pose that is making the chin look that way to you.

Poses make things look odd all the time and there really are plenty of shapes like that in SL.

[JanuarySwan]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure it truly is an SL shape and it is just the pose that is making the chin look that way to you.

Poses make things look odd all the time and there really are plenty of shapes like that in SL.

It is an exaggerated shape plus I never said there were not exaggerated shapes in SL.  It can be fun to make exaggerated shapes but to some it's silly.  I posted the definition of caricature because that is the response a caricature artist wants to evoke making a human comical or grotesque and that's what I see in the shape regarding the nose and chin.  But, I'm not going to keep going over the same thing again and again.  

[Love Zhaoying]

"Excuse me, miss? Are you using one of those 'intentionally ugly' avatars? That is so cool!"

..will not go over well as a pick-up line.