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@Wili Clip I'm a bit bored so I thought I'd write a post to you. Some forum long-timers know me and bots from way back, but I want to tell you something from back then. I got into using traffic-b

My honest opinion, this concern seems disingenuous. You worry that bots are causing traffic to be calculated for the wrong reason, yet operate a system which attempts to monetizes and manipulates traf

By now you should realize it's not the reputation of your product that's in question here.

Posted Images

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Is that because you view it as manipulative, or do you have other reasons?

No, because it's irrelevant to most people.  Having a bunch of people standing around fishing does nothing for brand image.  Having a good product, word of mouth references, outstanding customer service.  These are things that boost your image positively.  If your product is crappy, you can have all the avatars you want standing around and it won't equate to people seeing your product as anything other than crap.  

Therefore, promoting any product as "helping to improve brand image* is, in my opinion, crap.  

Edited by Rowan Amore
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9 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Why are you posting pictures of products from my games into forum comments? Such advertising in SL forums is not allowed even if you're doing it with purpose to try to portray someones product in a negative light (tactic of negative advertising or a product defamation attempt).

Definition of product defamation:
A statement is defamatory if is harmful to the trading reputation of the company. An attack on the products or services of a company is only defamatory if it attacks the integrity, competence or other reputational value of the business. It is the overall effect of the statement that matters.

By now you should realize it's not the reputation of your product that's in question here.

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3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:
9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Is that because you view it as manipulative, or do you have other reasons?

No, because it's irrelevant to most people.  Having a bunch of people standing around fishing does nothing for brand image.  Having a good product, word of mouth references, outstanding customer service.  These are things that boost your image positively.  If your product is crappy, you can have all the avatars you want standing around and it won't equate to people seeing your product as anything other than crap.  

Therefore, promoting this product as "helping to improve brand image* is, in my opinion, crap. 

"Brand image"....this seems like 'marketing speak'....not even totally sure what it means.

But I do know that if you provide a nice place under your store with fun things to do, that some of those people end up shopping in your store, and that your sim in general becomes more 'known' within SL , because I did this myself via a fun park under my store with lots of fun activities.

If becoming more 'known' is a part of 'brand image' then I think it applies.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

"Brand image"....this seems like 'marketing speak'....not even totally sure what it means.

But I do know that if you provide a nice place under your store with fun things to do, that some of those people end up shopping in your store, and that your sim in general becomes more 'known' within SL , because I did this myself via a fun park under my store with lots of fun activities.

If becoming more 'known' is a part of 'brand image' then I think it applies.

That would be brand exposure and not brand image.  Image is what people ultimately think about that product.  No system will turn a bad product into one with a good brand image.  

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:
1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I certainly can't speak for how others see it but I'd actually think less of a business that felt it necessary to use any system like this to try and increase brand image.

Is that because you view it as manipulative, or do you have other reasons?

When I started having business success in Second Life and started gaining numbers I dedicated it towards trying to grow Second Life on overall. Landowners and other businesses in Second Life noticed that and hopped on the bandwagon. No one thinks less of landowners and businesses who support type of games that help growing SL economy quite contrary they are championed and well respected for it.

A business that needs to get out with a new product can choose between paying for advertisements or use a system to share some of their profits within the community who then grow positive feelings towards the brand and buy the products of its brand. Which practice do you think will be seen as more popular within the community of 37 000+ people?

Anshe Chung as a brand has figured that out way before everyone else. If you want your brand to be respected and desirable then find ways to give to the community and the community will fall in love with your brand.

We all want Second Life to grow. I am an economist and I teach people that to grow the Second Life we need to grow Second Life's economy.

My motivation with new products that I invent is with a goal to design a killer app for Second Life that would lead towards growth in use of Second Life world wide.

Killer app definition:
a feature, function, or application of a new technology or product which is presented as virtually indispensable or much superior to rival products.

Edited by Wili Clip
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3 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Anshee Chung has figured that out way before everyone else. If you want your brand to be respected and desirable then find ways to give to the community and the community will fall in love with your brand.

Actually, from listening to others, someone I've avoided renting from over the years.  

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4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:
11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

"Brand image"....this seems like 'marketing speak'....not even totally sure what it means.

But I do know that if you provide a nice place under your store with fun things to do, that some of those people end up shopping in your store, and that your sim in general becomes more 'known' within SL , because I did this myself via a fun park under my store with lots of fun activities.

If becoming more 'known' is a part of 'brand image' then I think it applies.

Expand  Expand  

That would be brand exposure and not brand image.  Image is what people ultimately think about that product.  No system will turn a bad product into one with a good brand image.  

True...no system of advertisement would turn a bad product into a good one. But so many items people sell are pretty similar, and I would think if you gave back to the community by having fun things to do at your store this would engender positive feelings in some, and so they would be more likely to buy from you.

With me, my park needs took precedence over my store sales...as my love of wilderness always does. But I can't fault anyone for deliberately attempting to benefit sales by giving something to the community that does indeed benefit that community. 

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True...no system of advertisement would turn a bad product into a good one. But so many items people sell are pretty similar, and I would think if you gave back to the community by having fun things to do at your store this would engender positive feelings in some, and so they would be more likely to buy from you.

With me, my park needs took precedence over my store sales...as my love of wilderness always does. But I can't fault anyone for deliberately attempting to benefit sales by giving something to the community that does indeed benefit that community. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.  I don't fault anyone for using these systems and it is nice that they give back to those who need these systems to aquire Ls.   As I said, its just my opinion that these systems don't, in reality, boast your image.  Only your exposure.  Lucky boards seem to have the same effect and basically cost the store nothing.

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Posted (edited)

I saw someone asking about what is brand image.

Brand Image is how customers think of a brand. It can be defined as the perception of the brand in the minds of the customers.

This image develops over time. Customers form an image based on their interactions and experience with the brand. These interactions take place in many forms and not necessarily involve the purchase or use of products and services.

But in my own words. Big brands are established by charismatic personalities and usually the brands represent the whole value system of the leaders who start the company and do things certain way that seems to lead to success of the company.

Elon Musk for example is a brand. Tesla = Elon Musk.

It doesn't matter if you like him or not, if you agree with him or not but he is an example of someone who has a very good brand image - so much that it lead to a Tesla stock bubble.

Walter Elias is another example of a man that created a very known brand
- He was an American entrepreneur, animator, writer, voice actor and film producer. A pioneer of the American animation industry, he introduced several developments in the production of cartoons.

Walt Disney is very known brand even to this day and is a legacy of its founder.
 

I say to everyone who creates and sells something in Second Life. Who you are and what you represent and stand for is very important. If your product is comparable to others then your brand image or what kind of personality you are can tip the sales your way.

So be nice, positive, constructive, do good to others and generally be a good person and life is going to reward you with many people who will want to own your products and be close to you.

From my own experience and from what I learned from doing business in Second Life. I can say to others who seek business success in SL. Just be nice, positive and work with your customers. Don't abandon them after they made a purchase. Take care for them as they're the supporters of your business.

Every happy and satisfied customer breeds 10 new customers. Word of mouth happens if you're good to people and if you genuinely care for their experience with your product and service.

Edited by Wili Clip
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2 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

 

Every happy and satisfied customer breeds 10 new customers. Word of mouth happens if you're good to people and if you genuinely care for their experience with your product and service.

I am a huge proponent of word of mouth in Secondlife. It's imo the best form of advertisement since you're not going to be browsing Google or watching Youtube (or whatever your preferred medium is) and see an ad of a product from Secondlife. So ya, be cordial. Even if you're just pretending xD.

Word of mouth also has a flip side. For instance:

Someone: "Hey I heard of this business".

Me: "ya but the owner acts entitled and like an asshat on the forums."

Edited by Finite
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I only just realised that the OP, who asked the question, "Is BOTs traffic gaming SERIOUSLY breaking Second Life search?", is the one who created the fishing game, and advertises it to increase traffic numbers, consequently "SERIOUSLY breaking Second Life search". Increasing traffic numbers is for things like store sales. It's a bit rich asking that question, isn't it? Especially when he states in this thread that it is useful for places, such as stores, that are nothing to do with fishing, but need customers to increase sales - building the brand.

Traffic bots are illegal and traffic fishing is not, but their intentions are the same - to increase the traffic for the search results - and they both affect the search results in the same way, resulting in false traffic numbers when related to stores and such. So why ask if one is "seriously breaking" the search results, when he's busy selling and plugging another method of intentionally "seriously breaking" them? That's way too rich, for want of a better word.

 

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3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Actually, from listening to others, someone I've avoided renting from over the years.  

What do others say? I'm renting since years from Surreal Chung, a branch of Anshe Shung. Nothing wrong with them. Good prices and perfect support. I'm long time in SL, but couldn't find a better land company until now.

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22 minutes ago, Finite said:

Me: "ya but the owner acts entitled and like an asshat on the forums."

I am sorry that this is your perception of me. You probably shaped your opinion and basing it on belief that I am posting here only to promote my business. But if you read my initial post you will see that I really mean everything I wrote and I am really looking to connect with people who want to make something more in within SL.

entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

I don't feel as if I am acting like that and it is not my intention to act entitled. I respect other people here and I am not name calling anyone if I don't agree with them or with how or in what way they do things or if they're just different.

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3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Having a bunch of people standing around fishing does nothing for brand image.

No matter what event, people take the the prizes and run. Ad boards? Who sponsors the event? They couldn't care less. That Is my personal experience.

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5 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

I am sorry that this is your perception of me. You probably shaped your opinion and basing it on belief that I am posting here only to promote my business. But if you read my initial post you will see that I really mean everything I wrote and I am really looking to connect with people who want to make something more in within SL.

entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

I don't feel as if I am acting like that and it is not my intention to act entitled. I respect other people here and I am not name calling anyone if I don't agree with them or with how or in what way they do things or if they're just different.

LoL. Sorry this wasn't a passive reference to you. Possibly someone else? Or nobody particular. I just liked you're reference to word of mouth.

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9 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Traffic bots are illegal and traffic fishing is not, but their intentions are the same - to increase the traffic for the search results - and they both affect the search results in the same way, resulting in false traffic numbers

I don't think those 2 things are the same because. What information does traffic metric provide?

It provides the information that on the land with high traffic there is some kind of a social activity happening - that there are real people that you can interact with. In case of people playing the game.. those are real people and one can interact with them.

But in case of bots.. now those are not real people and you can not interact with them and there can be no social activity. Because they are bots which are not real humans.

I think that your dislike of me is clearly shaping your reasoning (you are letting your emotions influence how you think). I've noticed that with some commentators. Some are even retorting to name calling.

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I am looking for positive people and on my path searching for them I meet some that are negative and insecure.

There is an interesting article on Forbes:

Surrounding Yourself With The Right People Changes Everything
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jennifercohen/2018/12/04/surrounding-yourself-with-the-right-people-changes-everything/?sh=385b23197d09
 

Quote

 

Say Goodbye To The “Negative Nellies”

Everyone has those colleagues who are constantly in turmoil or have serious drama, the ones who will never manage to elevate themselves. Far worse is that they can’t help but try to bring you down right along with them.

Life is hard enough – we don’t always win, and there will always be obstacles and naysayers along our path to success. During those times, nothing feels better than having someone you can share your fears and doubts with: friends and mentors that not only listen, but also cheer you on to be the best you can be. “Get back in there and do better! You can do it!” They give you energy and help you propel forward.
 

Find and focus on relationships with those who can share their wins and positive vibes and help you realize that you can do the same. Life is too short for the negativity.

Find People Who Are Smarter Than You

Many entrepreneurs and business people aspire to be the smartest person in the room on every topic. But if you're always the smartest person, you're actually limiting yourself...

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Finite said:
33 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

I am sorry that this is your perception of me. You probably shaped your opinion and basing it on belief that I am posting here only to promote my business. But if you read my initial post you will see that I really mean everything I wrote and I am really looking to connect with people who want to make something more in within SL.

entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

I don't feel as if I am acting like that and it is not my intention to act entitled. I respect other people here and I am not name calling anyone if I don't agree with them or with how or in what way they do things or if they're just different.

Expand   Expand  

LoL. Sorry this wasn't a passive reference to you. Possibly someone else? Or nobody particular. I just liked you're reference to word of mouth.

Heavy on sarcasm you are.. my friend \😁/

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As a fisherperson, I can honestly say...no, you really can't interact with most people fishing, because they don't want to interact (and there's really nothing wrong with that) Some do, yes, and you can meet some fantastic people that way, on occasion. But largely, nope, folks want left alone, that's their quiet time, their me time, their down time, or their "I'm busy in IMs or doing something else" time, so interaction is, very much so, unwanted and will largely go not acknowledged. I've rarely ever had to block anyone in all my time on sl, but three of the people I have had to do so, even temporarily, it was because they wouldn't stop pestering me with the idea that all of us there fishing were there for their socialization (wonder where they got that idea? lol)

There's nothing wrong with either approach, imo, but I think people need to spend a lot more time with folks that use these kinds of systems, possibly contrary to how they themselves might use them, to actually understand HOW we use them, and not just assume based off something maybe a few people have said or some expectation. We're a small pond here in these forums, among the vast ocean that is the sl grid, as such we represent a minority of sl users. Fisher folks that interact with others regularly while doing so are very much also a small pond, and represent a small minority of users.

Some areas, some crowds (group of people, really, some like to fish in groups), you might find more socialization, but largely, it's definitely not present. If you only take into account one area(sim/region) or the group chat, you might think there's a lot more socialization than there really is. There's nothing at all wrong with not socializing while using the products, of course. Just as there's nothing wrong with doing so. But the former is far more likely, because folks tend to be doing their own thing. :) 

(That has nothing to do with the system itself, nor is it a slight against said systems in any way. There are a few different systems that work in a similar manner, not just fishing, and all experience the same thing, really, not quite as social as some might think)

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2 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

I don't think those 2 things are the same because. What information does traffic metric provide?

It provides the information that on the land with high traffic there is some kind of a social activity happening - that there are real people that you can interact with. In case of people playing the game.. those are real people and one can interact with them.

But in case of bots.. now those are not real people and you can not interact with them and there can be no social activity. Because they are bots which are not real humans.

I think that your dislike of me is clearly shaping your reasoning (you are letting your emotions influence how you think). I've noticed that with some commentators. Some are even retorting to name calling.

I didn't say they are the same thing. I said they are there for the same purpose; i.e. inflating traffic so that the store, or whatever, gets better search rankings. You, the seller of the fishing product, advertise it for that purpose, and not for the pupose of people enjoying fishing. They do the same job, and for the same purpose. So one calling the other 'black' is a bit much, isn't it.

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44 minutes ago, RunawayBunny said:

I think fishing games and other similar games coins etc. all of them clone from old camping system with a fancy website interface and database.

I remember the camping times which led to the business idea that organized gangs of alts jumped from place to place and collected all available prizes. I suppose this idea isn't totally dead today.

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I only just realised that the OP, who asked the question, "Is BOTs traffic gaming SERIOUSLY breaking Second Life search?", is the one who created the fishing game, and advertises it to increase traffic numbers, consequently "SERIOUSLY breaking Second Life search". Increasing traffic numbers is for things like store sales. It's a bit rich asking that question, isn't it? Especially when he states in this thread that it is useful for places, such as stores, that are nothing to do with fishing, but need customers to increase sales - building the brand.

Traffic bots are illegal and traffic fishing is not, but their intentions are the same - to increase the traffic for the search results - and they both affect the search results in the same way, resulting in false traffic numbers when related to stores and such. So why ask if one is "seriously breaking" the search results, when he's busy selling and plugging another method of intentionally "seriously breaking" them? That's way too rich, for want of a better word.

 

This whole thread is a self aggrandizing L$ thirst trap.

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