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Lets create a Startup Incubator in Second Life


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On 2/25/2021 at 5:39 PM, Darius Wilberg said:

I'm pretty sure this person is referring to the $14,000 L$ Shark magic fishing rod that suddenly stopped working when LL implemented that new name change system. And you want to charge these people 1000 - 2000L$ to make their fishing pole work again.

😬

I personally think your comment would have been a good place for a Linden moderator to draw a line under this fascinating but perhaps "go-nowhere" discussion.

I don't oppose fishing games, I know various kinds of them, I see various tenants and people in groups I'm in head for them enthusiastically, they aren't just AFK Linden sucking, but occasions for socializing, sharing, giving tips, etc. Several times I asked a fishing guy (was that you?) near my rentals with all kinds of obnoxious build features to tone it down, and I'd send my tents looking for "things to do" over to those games. They seem harmless enough.

I had no idea they involved an outlay that is more than a mesh body, skins, and clothes for a week. I can't think of anything I've ever spent that much money in SL on except a piece of land. There are $14,000 fishing poles??? That's US $56. How soon can the players make back their "investment"?

I also had no idea that the Lindens new name change thing affected anything in world. I haven't seen that. Did they announce it? What is affected? All scripts with the capacity to accept names and return money? But then why do rental boxes etc still work even with people with those new names? And security orbs. I'm puzzled.

As for wanting people to throw another $4 or $8 US after that $56, what can I tell you, go big or go hard. I'd rather buy this woman's wonderful crystal chamber with lighting and magic spells that she won't sell, although she is now telling me she can give me some components for free. I do understand her need to keep her power spell lair special thing that she doesn't sell. In a way it keeps customers coming back to the store looking with longing on the power throne lighted chamber thingie. Scarcity is a good idea on some occasions.

Go big or go home, I say.

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It seems that you cannot grow your current business any more, because the number of people in SL is not growing - I take it this is to do with your advertising business.  So, you want to find a way of

Is there a TL;DR version?  It is a rough day at work and so my attention span here is limited.

Summary: Some project they want people for.  Amazingly vague once you wade through the word salad and realized nothing is really said. Lots of self-pimping. They thinks SLU sucks.  

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5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I think this is a narrow take on the subject based on your preferences. If you get out of the ideal of the socialist collective, and think about alternatives to it as NOT just some Ayn Randian MAGA scam, you might realize that something like a group interested in breeding and selling cats or lizards or dragons or worms (yes, there are worm farms, my God, I've seen them among my tenants) are in fact little capitalist merchant groups joined by lifestyle and self-interest and just fun. I think some people sell the cats only as a way to cover the food for them. I brutally send a lot of mine to the Menagerie in order to pay for their kibble and I don't care about their rare traits and such which is why some Chateau Cat No. 1 is now probably eating a two-colour eyed  teacup lynx with a stub tail or whatever it is that makes them rare.

And there are people who join together merely to facilitate weekend sales for all their customers and so on. There's a category of collaborative capitalism that is far more benign than some Randian rent-seeking exploiter of the environment that you imagine. Every time a We ❤️ RP type of event roles by, you are seeing a benign and fun form of capitalism in motion that you may even *gasp* take part in. These people are not tithing or turning over all their proceeds to the movement.

Oh, I don't know that I disagree with much of what you've said here, except . . .

. . . I don't really think of the vast majority of SL enterprises as "capitalism," because they lack some of the most fundamental features of that system, not only in the modern sense of that term, but even at the most fundamental level. "Capital" really isn't a big thing in SL, is it? Nor for that matter are labour costs.

While we are undoubtedly operating under a largely deregulated, free market system here, almost all of the merchants and creators I know are really much more like small independent craftspeople, artisans who produce what they sell themselves, rather than relying upon hired labour. Although they may well be buying mesh off-world, most of that is probably similarly produced. Are there sweatshops for the production of mesh? I think not.

Nor does money produce more money here -- any "capital outlay" here almost always goes towards overhead (land, a shop, a modest advertising budget) and raw materials (texture and mesh uploads). And that's not much different than it was in RL under feudalism or mercantilism.

The exception to this may be, or perhaps in the past was, land speculation. Is there much of that here anymore, though?

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11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I had no idea they involved an outlay that is more than a mesh body, skins, and clothes for a week. I can't think of anything I've ever spent that much money in SL on except a piece of land. There are $14,000 fishing poles??? That's US $56. How soon can the players make back their "investment"?

If you are new to the game, you can expect to maybe make 25L (on a regular event) off one buoy you fish for an hour and of that 20L you made, half of it goes back for bait. The lindens you "fish up" are paid by the landowners who deposit them into buoys they buy. The creator gets a percentage of the lindens deposited into the buoys. They also make lindens on the bait. You can fish without bait, but then one buoy would take hours to fish. Bait reduces your cast time and I don't know anyone who doesn't use it. You can earn more on multiplier events, and you make more as you level up. That is why people buy the expensive rods - they give much higher XP and level you much faster.

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I also had no idea that the Lindens new name change thing affected anything in world. I haven't seen that. Did they announce it? What is affected? All scripts with the capacity to accept names and return money? But then why do rental boxes etc still work even with people with those new names? And security orbs. I'm puzzled.

I had these same questions which is why I made a post a few days back asking if people had issues with products after a name change, and from what I can gather, there is little to no other issues other than this one. I am not a scripter and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems the issue is the coding being written with usernames and not UUIDs.

If you change your name, your account with them starts over as a new account (or in my case, the pole stops working altogether), so any lindens (that had not been withdrawn from their ATM) or XP a user had earned on their pole are gone. If someone had a couple of thousands in their account, too bad because it's gone. Want your original account back? You have to pay upwards of 2,000L to get it. That is wrong to me.

Here is an example of a fishing game and what users have on their poles. This is not their overall earnings during all the time they have fished, but what they currently have not cashed out. And as you can see here, for some people, it's a lot of lindens.

🙂🙂

48405e45bd36ce92f482a1fc7c12203d.png

Edited by Mercedes Avon
Grrr Typos.
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1 hour ago, Mercedes Avon said:

If you are new to the game, you can expect to maybe make 25L (on a regular event) off one buoy you fish for an hour and of that 20L you made, half of it goes back for bait. The lindens you "fish up" are paid by the landowners who deposit them into buoys they buy. The creator gets a percentage of the lindens deposited into the buoys. They also make lindens on the bait. You can fish without bait, but then one buoy would take hours to fish. Bait reduces your cast time and I don't know anyone who doesn't use it. You can earn more on multiplier events, and you make more as you level up. That is why people buy the expensive rods - they give much higher XP and level you much faster.

I had these same questions which is why I made a post a few days back asking if people had issues with products after a name change, and from what I can gather, there is little to no other issues other than this one. I am not a scripter and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems the issue is the coding being written with usernames and not UUIDs.

If you change your name, your account with them starts over as a new account (or in my case, the pole stops working altogether), so any lindens (that had not been withdrawn from their ATM) or XP a user had earned on their pole are gone. If someone had a couple of thousands in their account, too bad because it's gone. Want your original account back? You have to pay upwards of 2,000L to get it. That is wrong to me.

Here is an example of a fishing game and what users have on their poles. This is not their overall earnings during all the time they have fished, but what they currently have not cashed out. And as you can see here, for some people, it's a lot of lindens.

🙂🙂

48405e45bd36ce92f482a1fc7c12203d.png

I'm not a scripter, I just paste together bits of script that real coders have left behind as a legacy for us or release on all perms. Why would you ever make a script in SL with actual word user names and not the UUID? What would be the use case in a world where you have the UUID? Especially when Display Names appeared which are confusing enough in groups, but on a rental box and a security orb don't exist as the UUID is under the hood.

I don't get any of this but I don't need to.

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7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh, I don't know that I disagree with much of what you've said here, except . . .

. . . I don't really think of the vast majority of SL enterprises as "capitalism," because they lack some of the most fundamental features of that system, not only in the modern sense of that term, but even at the most fundamental level. "Capital" really isn't a big thing in SL, is it? Nor for that matter are labour costs.

While we are undoubtedly operating under a largely deregulated, free market system here, almost all of the merchants and creators I know are really much more like small independent craftspeople, artisans who produce what they sell themselves, rather than relying upon hired labour. Although they may well be buying mesh off-world, most of that is probably similarly produced. Are there sweatshops for the production of mesh? I think not.

Nor does money produce more money here -- any "capital outlay" here almost always goes towards overhead (land, a shop, a modest advertising budget) and raw materials (texture and mesh uploads). And that's not much different than it was in RL under feudalism or mercantilism.

The exception to this may be, or perhaps in the past was, land speculation. Is there much of that here anymore, though?

I think the independent artisans and craftspeople that you would like to envision as a lovely RenFaire set-up but without maybe the medieval Church and torture implements in the background aren't the same as SL merchants who function more like capitalists because they use mass produced parts and models in many cases (I do at my little level) *made by other people*. Only the top small percent do their own work exclusively without a single other manufactured third-party item. Yes, there is a percentage at the very top who do their own work with free or relatively cheap tools outside of SL (outside the home in a "factory" i.e. in their RL home) even if in their SL home up on a skybox platform. But to MOVE those wares in our ATTENTION ECONOMY they actually have hordes of paid labour inworld in all kinds of forms from escorts to bloggers and those labour costs surely add up. In fact so many of them do very much rely on paid labour -- are the army of lowly-paid or volunteer bloggers, event organizers, bouncers at the door, prim pushers of all sorts invisible to you, Scylla? These are the Frontline Essential Workers of our world. They go forth every morning on the equivalent of the subway from Queens (the Lindens' teleportation system which works part of the time), punching vainly on map tiles that slip out of their grasp like a Metrocard near its limit and the name of the stop announced over a crackly loudspeaker in RL; risking the virus of griefing, angry prim-o-donnas, copyright theft and many more ills that deplete their energy and sap their will. There's not $15/hour minimum wage movement in our world; not because we're in the medieval times but because no one in our third world dictatorship can put together US $15 for anything, except the first purchase of their mesh body.

You have never watched as a land baron got the abandoned land from the Lindens for $1/m and flipped it for $250/meter on the Blake Sea coast. Of course money produces money here. The capital outlay on the auctions to bid on every parcel and keep the price high is actually considerable. Have you looked at the yellow squares on the map of Zindra?

If you think there is no more land speculation in SL I have to figure you don't get inworld any more, but then since you can't click on the map tiles any more, maybe you can't teleport to the yellow squares and see how much they cost and how they change hands; maybe you can't click on the pile of green dots and see all the automatic labourers slumped in a skybox who maintain traffic when they are not playing Tiny Empires and well, the deep blue of the endless Linden sea as the moon crashes into it when you switch to Midday mode...

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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14 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm not a scripter, I just paste together bits of script that real coders have left behind as a legacy for us or release on all perms. Why would you ever make a script in SL with actual word user names and not the UUID? What would be the use case in a world where you have the UUID? Especially when Display Names appeared which are confusing enough in groups, but on a rental box and a security orb don't exist as the UUID is under the hood.

I don't get any of this but I don't need to.

I know enough to modify some scripts and how to use them correctly. Writing them from scratch is another thing. I don't know a lot about his code and why it is malfunctioning, and only he can truly answer those questions. From what I can tell from what's been said here and my experience with his product is that the database may be using a mixture of code written with usernames and UUID. It's my belief that is why the product is breaking.

If he was using usernames alone, I would think a name change would simply create a new account in his database under the new name. However, because I think he has a mixture, the database is getting confused between an account that already exists and what it thinks is a new account. He includes a disclaimer with his product that warns that transferring poles to a different avie will break them (they are no transfer). Thus, I can fairly assume he knew name changes would break his product because his system sees them as new avies. I am only guessing mind you, and I am kind of hoping someone who actually knows scripting can come weigh in on that theory. I do think it's a very real possibility.

And this brings me back to the Incubation collaboration pitch. In a concept like he proposes one has to be not only willing to share advice and knowledge but also be willing to take advice and knowledge.

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15 minutes ago, Mercedes Avon said:

I know enough to modify some scripts and how to use them correctly. Writing them from scratch is another thing. I don't know a lot about his code and why it is malfunctioning, and only he can truly answer those questions. From what I can tell from what's been said here and my experience with his product is that the database may be using a mixture of code written with usernames and UUID. It's my belief that is why the product is breaking.

If he was using usernames alone, I would think a name change would simply create a new account in his database under the new name. However, because I think he has a mixture, the database is getting confused between an account that already exists and what it thinks is a new account. He includes a disclaimer with his product that warns that transferring poles to a different avie will break them (they are no transfer). Thus, I can fairly assume he knew name changes would break his product because his system sees them as new avies. I am only guessing mind you, and I am kind of hoping someone who actually knows scripting can come weigh in on that theory. I do think it's a very real possibility.

And this brings me back to the Incubation collaboration pitch. In a concept like he proposes one has to be not only willing to share advice and knowledge but also be willing to take advice and knowledge.

Look, I don't know the answers and I don't have a dog in this hunt and such cats as I have don't like fish.

When you read about trained, educated, experienced programmers in major companies using password forms or customer data forms that are not "salted and hashed" properly like that of the catch of the good nomads of Tofalar, you can say, "Wow, aren't they stupid, wow, can't they at least go to their RL equivalent of an Oz office hour and learn these basics, sheesh" or (glowering darkly) "it's those Russians..."

But...there are sometimes good reasons for things like that happening that are from an entirely different opera. That aren't related to stupidity, lack of knowledge of good programming habits or failure to keep up at least your free email subscription to El Reg, which even I do as a non-computer specialist.

Instead, they are related to this sort of thing that Oz talked about in his exit interview, which I don't remember and didn't understand at the time, but went something like this:

"When we went to pick up veeeerrry carefully pick up the gem stones of Second Life, the Koh-i-noor Diamond of KittyCats and the 2008 Tuscon Red Beryl of Catwa mesh heads, not to mention Prokofy's 162,317-piece rock collection that mainly consisted of trilobytes from the shale shards of Seneca Lake which are worthless just between us, we found that when we faithfully had recorded them on 3 x 5 cards using a fountain pen and writing in the Palmer method, whose corners had become dog-eared with age over the decade, at the Amazon River, they were now using yellow sticky Post-its and a No. 2 hard pencil to record the gem information. That was because we had not looked in our desk drawers for 10 years because we were busy writing our dissertation on the top of the desk."

There's a context we/they/Amazon engineers/ didn't see, connected to another connext that couldn't be changed. 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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4 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:

Want your original account back? You have to pay upwards of 2,000L to get it. That is wrong to me.

Sorry for barking back into the topic. I know that some have had enough of me. But that is simply not true. We sent a notice to our group of 37 000+ members to let everyone know we charge 1000 L$  (4-5 USD) for changing name entries in our database (same thing as Linden Lab does who charge if I am not wrong 50 USD). The aim is to maybe make someone reconsider changing their name or make at least less people do it. If 1000s of people were to change the name I'd just be changing entries in database all days (the game was designed in times when it was not known that in future its going to be possible to change avatar name). I also wrote that if someone refuses to pay those 1000 L$ I am not going to lock them out of their game account and will change their name anyway.

Luckily so far not so many people have changed their name because 50 USD for most people is too much.

\O.. O/

Mercedes also if you IM me inworld (because I need to know exact name of your avatar you own the product with) I'll sort your issue if you still have with your rod or any other products of mine if you have. I am yet to check your 2nd reply on here on forum if you changed your mind and you want me to offer you support as 1st time I had an impression you don't want it.

 

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9 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Sorry for barking back into the topic. But that is simply not true. We sent a notice to our group of 37 000+ members to let everyone know we charge 1000 L$  (4-5 USD) for changing name entries in our database (same thing as Linden Lab does who charge if I am not wrong 50 USD). The aim is to maybe make someone reconsider changing their name or make at least less people do it. If 1000s of people were to change the name I'd just be changing entries in database all days (the game was designed in times when it was not known that in future its going to be possible to change avatar name). I also wrote that if someone refuses to pay those 1000 L$ I am not going to lock them out of their game account and will change their name anyway.

\O.. O/

Mercedes also if you IM me inworld (because I need to know exact name of your avatar you own the product with) I'll sort your issue if you still have with your rod or any other products of mine if you have. I am yet to check your 2nd reply on here on forum if you changed your mind and you want me to offer you support as 1st time I had an impression you don't want it.

 

I got my information from your CSR who linked me this page: https://web.archive.org/web/20200512163344/http://www.goldtokens.net/blogs/1621/important-information-on-sl-user-name-changes

I don't need my landowner buoys replaced (I had three over three different business avies). Furthermore, I do not use them anymore and do not plan to.

And I do owe you an apology because I said in DM to you that I would try to let this go and move on and then today I let myself get involved again. I am allowing my personal grudge/anger with you to turn me into some forums keyboard warrior.

 

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24 minutes ago, Mercedes Avon said:

And I do owe you an apology because I said in DM to you that I would try to let this go and move on and then today I let myself get involved again. I am allowing my personal grudge/anger with you to turn me into some forums keyboard warrior.

O.. O

I don't have any grudge or any hard feelings against you. If you will at any time need or want any product help or have question just let me know I'll help.  \O.. O/

Second Life is technically challenging environment and things do sometimes break or stop working for whatever the reason is. Main reason why maybe my business has grown so much bigger than from the most is because I am always there and I am known to fix everything. So people in my community gave me a nickname wili-fix-it. I sometimes break things modifying or updating or trying to make better and then it often happened that I had to fix something for hundreds of people. But one good thing that came out of it is that with a lot of customers I've developed more personal connection. This is very different from most business people in SL who just sell the product and then they disappear and when a customer needs help or something breaks they can't get any help. It happened to me when I bought something so I decided I don't want to be like other creators that don't care what happens with their customers after purchase has been made. 

In simple words I treat my customers as friends and business partners. I value them and they value me - we have mutual respect.

I am a humanist since my teenage years and I practice what is so called a "Humane Business".

You can read more about Humane Business in research paper:

The future of the corporation - Towards humane business
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329795244_The_future_of_the_corporation_Towards_humane_business

Edited by Wili Clip
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On 2/24/2021 at 10:14 PM, Wili Clip said:

Hi!

I am not making a sales pitch. Just looking for like minded people who would like the idea of a SL business incubator. Those that like the idea of businesses working together and understand how cooperation can enable greater things can join [SL] Business Consortium group 

As for my startup that I plan to make it all depends if I can get green light from product managers of LL. Players in my community already know what its about as we had public presentation and posted its excerpt in our social network.

Link to the social network presentation?. 

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8 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.
 

The only people getting rich are those at the top. Any miner that sells their mine for silver will never realise any profit from the sale so that’s never going to happen. The mining will become harder over time so any future investors will struggle to realise a profit as that profit seems to be determined by two things. Popularity and the price you feel like setting the silver at that day. There is no way for the players to exchange silver for linden unless they themselves buy a mine, from a miner and start mining themselves. However, as stated above, this will be at a higher difficulty of both mining and profit realisation. Then the vicious circle repeats itself until someone is left holding the bag. Aka a Ponzi scheme.

Creator : 100% profit. Pure linden

Wave 1 miners : 90% profit and lots of silver

Wave 2 miners : 80% profit and a fair amount of silver

Wave 3 miners : 70% profit and an amount of silver

etc etc etc

From everything you said the only ones profiting are those further up the tree. Ponzi, Ponzi, Ponzi, Ponzi.

Keep me updated I want to be in the initial wave. I see a way to make money here and only you to take the fall 😅😅

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6 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Any miner that sells their mine for silver will never realise any profit from the sale so that’s never going to happen

You read it in a wrong way. The silver mine owners are selling their mines to others for L$ (like GACHA).
While silver that miners get can be used to buy more silver mines from the game company for silver at set amount. The plan is to create an ecosystem of games that offer end products that players can use their mined silver for.

My team of programmers & designers that I want to set up would be creating API's and free script libraries together with game scripting open source community established around it all to make it easier for other content creators to make games within ecosystem we create.

It is not ponzi scheme, it is not an investment scheme. Silver that players create in the game they can use for end products (they can not sell/trade silver back for L$). It is a legitimate SL game that could grow into a platform that unites all content developers in SL and makes it easy for everyone to create games and sell components for  game creation (sounds, script functions, animations...). 

No one is getting rich. Players just get access to more and more newly developed game content that they can enjoy.

It makes sense to incorporate such game as a startup by registering a real life shareholding company that makes it possible for different entities to invest in it and make it possible for the most successful content creators in within the game ecosystem to be able to own shares of the company (then interests are aligned and creative potential, talents and skills are all focused to grow the value of the company by creating more and more succesful games).

I dislike any systems that are unfair and I don't even like gambling type of systems. I develop game systems where everyone can win or have fun (depends on their purpose). That is why all my game systems that I create are so successful.

6 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

...profit seems to be determined by two things. Popularity and the price you feel like setting the silver at that day.
 

 

Also wrong... the company does not set the price of silver...  just the amount of silver needed to get 1 additional silver mine for those that want to acquire silver mine for silver. As the number of silver miners increases everyone gets less silver per mining cycle so the silver becomes more scarce and its value increases.
There is then a need for the company to make new additional mines cheaper in silver as the number of players increases and the price in L$ that existing mine owners are selling their used mines to others sky rockets to a level where other players who want to mine silver can not afford it.

There is 3rd party (player 2 player) market for silver mines. Players can always buy for L$ more silver mines from other players or sell their silver mines to other players  (very much so like with gacha items).

There is another wrong assumption that you made. You used word investors. There are no investors and no investing is done in this game. Its all players who mine for silver through their mines and they are not investing. It is a game that would have vibrant player 2 player market where players trade 3D objects with each other (very much like GACHA). This is actually what TOS of SL (under L$ section) actually encourages and where it is stated what L$ purpose is for.

Straight from LL TOS:
https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

dcc2089cebd5a3d39c8d2c349b136b47.png

The game design that I managed to come up with is actually very brilliant. It just takes time to understand it and lots of elaborations because its a bit complex.

Its easy to get it wrong and call it something that it does not deserve to be called. \O.. O/

I create games systems that run legitimate and fair trade systems using knowledge of system theory, economics and game theory.

Edited by Wili Clip
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1 hour ago, Wili Clip said:

You read it in a wrong way. The silver mine owners are selling their mines to others for L$ (like GACHA).
While silver that miners get can be used to buy more silver mines from the game company for silver at set amount. The plan is to create an ecosystem of games that offer end products that players can use their mined silver for.

So a player can use L$ to buy Silver $ and then use the Silver $ to buy Mines which they then sell for L$.

Sounds to me like you are right back to basically exchanging Silver $ to L$, which leads into the 'possible money laundering, etc..' issues.

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1 hour ago, Wili Clip said:

Te game design that I managed to come up with is actually very brilliant. It just takes time to understand it and lots of elaborations because its a bit complex.

It's actually not that hard to understand.

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4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

So a player can use L$ to buy Silver $ and then use the Silver $ to buy Mines which they then sell for L$.

Sounds to me like you are right back to basically exchanging Silver $ to L$, which leads into the 'possible money laundering, etc..' issues.

No.

Because when you buy a gacha item somewhere at gacha market at lower price and then you sell it on SL Marketplace for a higher price. You are not laundering money.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's actually not that hard to understand.

It is hard to understand how it is a perfectly legitimate system that is not breaking any rules of SL TOS and not enabling or causing concerns for money laundering. Just like GACHA has never raised any money laundering concerns.

I actually did not want to make this topic to discuss my game design plan and its technicalities. I already communicated through LL ticket system with Patch Linden 6 months ago and they worked cross departments with legal department to let me know if my game design I proposed is ok with them. 

The main concern and issue for Linden Lab is if the players were able to sell silver for L$ interchangeably through an exchange system in an open market fashion.

It is ok if its a 1 way sell. Player buys silver for L$ from player who mined it with their silver mine but once silver is purchased it can not be sold for L$ again (it has to be used for end game product or service).

So basically. I received a green light from Linden Lab as long as players can not sell silver back for L$ to other players (as that creates money laundering concern). Prior to that I've proposed 4 redesigns and asked LL which one of them is ok with them.

I hesitated starting creating the game because there would not be much interest for it. Until I managed to solve the main problem. And to do that I took the solution from the gacha market. So players would be always able to sell or buy a silver mine (3D object like any gacha) to or from another player for L$.

I contacted Linden Lab recently for additional confirmation with in detail technical description of it because this gacha component was added. But gacha seems to be ok in SL so I wouldn't need to. But I still prefer to do it and want to be sure LL is ok with my game design as it will be a lot of work to do it and I plan to incorporate a real life startup (shareholding) company for it.

 

Edited by Wili Clip
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You say a lot of things. Produce a lot of word salad. It’s not that difficult to understand what you are saying. Or your idea. It sounds like...a Ponzi Scheme. If it looks like a Ponzi, sounds like a Ponzi, walks like a Ponzi then...

129C9CD0-BACE-4068-8361-3AEEBC7A4B64.jpeg

DC8AFEAD-228E-41A9-8181-80B93B6A7ED6.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

No.

Because when you buy a gacha item somewhere at gacha market at lower price and then you sell it on SL Marketplace for a higher price. You are not laundering money.

 

Maybe.  All that matters is how LL sees it.  As you said:

image.png.9a3d8d52be123dc27fc9c7ccd2cbbfb8.png

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

Maybe.  All that matters is how LL sees it.  As you said:

image.png.9a3d8d52be123dc27fc9c7ccd2cbbfb8.png

 

Yes that is why I am asking the Linden Lab it is their platform and their rules.

Edited by Wili Clip
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2 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

It is not ponzi scheme

Can you state your definition of what a ponzi scheme is?

Also, how does your system allow others to make a decent amount of money too (as opposed to only the initial players, which is what a ponzi scheme means to me) ?

Please simplify as much as possible, as my knowledge of finance is lacking.

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57 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

No.

Because when you buy a gacha item somewhere at gacha market at lower price and then you sell it on SL Marketplace for a higher price. You are not laundering money.

You aren't selling a product. You're selling a service. Huge difference. And in SL under LL's ToS, what you intend is not allowed as it would be too easy to use the service for money laundering according to United States federal statutes. Now, if you'd like, you can go argue with the US Department of Justice about it but I'm pretty sure they will tell you the same thing.

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