Madelaine McMasters Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: I suspect the difference is that the flu vaccine development is not funded by the government or its health agencies. What I got out of his talk along with something I heard from another source is that the Operation warp speed government subsidized vaccines can only be done when there is no other treatment option. If there is then a vaccine would be the responsibility of the private sector. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20191001/US-Government-to-fund-development-of-a-universal-flu-vaccine.aspx ETA: Arielle, you remind me of my old cat, who never tired of gifting me dead animals. I might have to start ignoring you because it's not pleasant to think of you in that way. Edited May 3, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Debating with facts is fine. If one cannot debate with facts, or feels it is useless, the better approach is to just walk away. I can debate with facts and research just fine. I also reserve the right to state I am frustrated. Edited May 3, 2021 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: In the interests of saving 400,000+ deaths, the same emergency use authorization could have been handed out for Ivermectin. What part of saving lives are you not getting? Larger meta-studies have not indicated Ivermectin is of any use in fighting Covid. If I see those I'll be happy to change my mind on its efficacy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20191001/US-Government-to-fund-development-of-a-universal-flu-vaccine.aspx ETA: Arielle, you remind me of my old cat, who never tired of gifting me dead animals. I might have to start ignoring you because it's not pleasant to think of you in that way. 6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: Errm.. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/universal-influenza-vaccine-research You are both talking of a Universal influenza vaccine. Something not done before. Did the FDA and NIAID also invest, subsidize into the private sectors flu jabs from past that compete with the influenza treatments? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Debating with facts is fine. If one cannot debate with facts, or feels it is useless, the better approach is to just walk away. Facts aren't what some people are interested in. It's hard to debate when one side isn't using facts but conjecture. And why I'm done. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Vortex Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) How in Satan's slime sandwich did this thread get hijacked by a single baloney purveyor? Edited May 3, 2021 by Eddy Vortex 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Did the FDA and NIAID also invest, subsidize into the private sectors flu jabs from past that compete with the influenza treatments? Oh lovely, another dead animal for me to bury in Mom's marigold garden. (I truly enjoyed Alex's gifting. He played cat to the best of his abilities, which were magnificent. You will bring me no such joy.) https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/influenza-basic-research The US government has a long history of funding basic research that gets transferred into private industry. I spent years helping startup companies obtain NIH and NSF funding for all manner of medical research. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Oh lovely, another dead animal for me to bury in Mom's marigold garden. Is fertilizer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I can debate with facts and research just fine. I also reserve the right to state I am frustrated. Stating frustration is a far cry from belittling people and calling names, which is where some of the responses have gone. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Eddy Vortex said: How in Satan's slime sandwich did this thread get hijacked by a single baloney purveyor? The same reason this (and many other) topics were able to gain widespread social media traction the last few years. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: In the interests of saving 400,000+ deaths, the same emergency use authorization could have been handed out for Ivermectin. What part of saving lives are you not getting? I wish you'd stop saying that, Arielle. I think the medical profession has been through hell with this as if haven't we all, and that the medical profession is doing the best they can which is also part of the Hippocratic oath, do the best you can. There is no evidence it is helping in full grown human beings. It "helped" in in vitro studies. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/ Ivermectin Last Updated: February 11, 2021 Ivermectin is a Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved antiparasitic drug that is used to treat several neglected tropical diseases, including onchocerciasis, helminthiases, and scabies.1 It is also being evaluated for its potential to reduce the rate of malaria transmission by killing mosquitoes that feed on treated humans and livestock.2 For these indications, ivermectin has been widely used and is generally well tolerated.1,3 Ivermectin is not approved by the FDA for the treatment of any viral infection. Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19 Reports from in vitro studies suggest that ivermectin acts by inhibiting the host importin alpha/beta-1 nuclear transport proteins, which are part of a key intracellular transport process that viruses hijack to enhance infection by suppressing the host’s antiviral response.4,5 In addition, ivermectin docking may interfere with the attachment of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) spike protein to the human cell membrane.6 Ivermectin is thought to be a host-directed agent, which may be the basis for its broad-spectrum activity in vitro against the viruses that cause dengue, Zika, HIV, and yellow fever.4,7-9 Despite this in vitro activity, no clinical trials have reported a clinical benefit for ivermectin in patients with these viruses. Some studies of ivermectin have also reported potential anti-inflammatory properties, which have been postulated to be beneficial in people with COVID-19.10-12 Some observational cohorts and clinical trials have evaluated the use of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Data from some of these studies can be found in Table 2c. Recommendation There are insufficient data for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19. Rationale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: The same reason this (and many other) topics were able to gain widespread social media traction the last few years. In past these were considered discussions of current events but with the advent of sjw's and snowflakes, opposing views have become fake news and misinformation. Lively debates are now relics of the past it seems. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I'd like to offer a small apology Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Is fertilizer! I've told the story before. One of the animal parts Alex brought home was a nicely manicured leg I ultimately determined was once part of a neighbor's Pekinese. My little guy simply got tired of the yipping and snipping of the vile creature who blocked the shortest path to the gal he fancied. I quickly fertilized Mom's marigolds and kept the secret as the neighborhood theorized threats. These were pre-coyote days, when dismembered household pets were not yet all the rage. I sometimes carried Alex down the block on my bicycle so he'd arrive for his date fully fresh. Good times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Interesting article describing how this Ivermectin craze came to be: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90552 Lead guy, Marik: Marik was lead author of a journal article on the efficacy of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment, which had been provisionally accepted for publication by a Frontiers Media journal in early 2021, but which was subsequently rejected on account of what the publisher said were "a series of strong, unsupported claims based on studies with insufficient statistical significance" meaning that the article did "not offer an objective [or] balanced scientific contribution to the evaluation of ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID-19".[4] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: the advent of sjw's and snowflakes I'm so glad we're not using pejoratives or ad hominem attacks . . . 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, FairreLilette said: It "helped" in in vitro studies. It's amazing how many things kill COVID when constrained by a petri dish. Bleach, fire, UV light, regular bright light, hammers, gasoline .... Yet for some reason just don't work as expected when forcefully inserted into people. 6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: In past these were considered discussions of current events but with the advent of sjw's and snowflakes, opposing views have become fake news and misinformation Fake news and misinformation has always been fake news and misinformation. It's not someone else's fault your positions are in the same bracket as drunk driving. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 16 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: The same reason this (and many other) topics were able to gain widespread social media traction the last few years. In past these were considered discussions of current events but with the advent of sjw's and snowflakes, opposing views have become fake news and misinformation. Lively debates are now relics of the past it seems. There can be no lively debate with someone who doesn't understand how Science works. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: I wish you'd stop saying that, Arielle. I think the medical profession has been through hell with this as if haven't we all, and that the medical profession is doing the best they can which is also part of the Hippocratic oath, do the best you can. There is no evidence it is helping in full grown human beings. It "helped" in in vitro studies. Which part of the medical profession are you talking about? The ones in ivory towers dictating the policies, procedures and drugs that may be prescribed or the ones on the front lines having to watch their patients die when they know there are effective treatments that could help? There is plenty of evidence for the efficacy of Ivermectin but since you have already stated you don't have the time to look at them then I will spare linking you to various YouTube videos where some of those doctors relate what they have seen either in studies or actual real life cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 43 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: 47 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Then, I'd love to see an argument between her and Maddy! You won't. They like each other. (At least, I am sure that Maddy has nothing but respect for Innula, and I'd wager it's reciprocal.) You're absolutely right, Scylla. Though I don't know Innula all that well, I enjoy her participation here and would certainly like to see more of her. I enjoy engagement with people who demonstrate curiosity, humor, and the ability to challenge me. Innula's on that list. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: You are both talking of a Universal influenza vaccine. Something not done before. Did the FDA and NIAID also invest, subsidize into the private sectors flu jabs from past that compete with the influenza treatments? Well, erm, yes, but since research into vaccines for seasonal flu variants is carried out by the patent holders (as you might expect) there's no need for government to fund it, I would have thought. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_influenza_vaccine_brands I know that the British government spends a great deal on helping deliver the results of the patent holders' research into peoples' arms each winter, and I'd be surprised if the US government doesn't do likewise in various ways. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 56 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Debating with facts is fine. If one cannot debate with facts, or feels it is useless, the better approach is to just walk away. Calling people names and making fun of people is not the proper way to ever handle things. But we have a group that apparently enjoys that type of debate. Saul Alinsky recommended making fun of people and ridiculing them if one could not win the argument on merit. He made it one of his Rules for Radicals. We see that going on here and in other threads. It isn't hard to identify those that subscribe to his philosophy. It is also interesting to notice which people have consistent projections as to what others are doing and why. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said: I know that the British government spends a great deal on helping deliver the results of the patent holders' research into peoples' arms each winter, and I'd be surprised if the US government doesn't do likewise in various ways. But that is still apples and oranges to how it was done in the case of the Covid vaccines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Which part of the medical profession are you talking about? The ones in ivory towers dictating the policies, procedures and drugs that may be prescribed or the ones on the front lines having to watch their patients die when they know there are effective treatments that could help? Both my niece and her fiancé are junior doctors in NHS hospitals here, and that particular piece of nonsense annoys me considerably. If there were effective treatments available, don't you think they'd be using them to help their patients? Remember I know my niece and her fiancé and you don't. Edited May 3, 2021 by Innula Zenovka 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I'm so glad we're not using pejoratives or ad hominem attacks . . . Good thing you aren't either of those or you would be taking offense! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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