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50 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Are you sure about that?  It's not the picture in the UK, certainly.    Here's the figures for England

4d2a4c5f87b266562df3317357ceab60.png

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https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiNGM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2NiIsImMiOjh9

I dunno could be but even just a quick glance at Google results show different UK publications listing significantly different excess mortality statistics. Last time I looked 6 months ago for the world statistics, there was depending on who was doing the calculating, little to no excess mortality. In either case, it was not what we were discussing, so I will leave you to it as I was interested in your take on contractual ramifications for national health agencies with their call for vaccines when there are acceptable treatment drugs available that would have prevented many of the deaths blamed on the virus.

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

there are acceptable treatment drugs available that would have prevented many of the deaths blamed on the virus.

We already disproved the validity of your supposed Ivermectin de-wormer cures, months ago.

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13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm curious.. does anyone know when tinfoil hats started up?

Was it from the movie Signs?

It's just one of those curiosity's that come to me when I'm sleepy.. hehehe

Per the Wiki:

Vice Magazine claimed that the tinfoil hat in popular culture "can be traced back in a very weird and prescient short story written in 1927 by Julian Huxley, brother of the better-known author Aldous and half-brother to Nobel laureate Andrew" titled The Tissue-Culture King, wherein the main character uses a metal hat to prevent being mind controlled by the villain scientist. Over time the term "tin foil hat" has become associated with paranoia and conspiracy theories.

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5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Nothing says two people who like each other can't argue!

Very true. In fact my attempt to debate a person often means I like them more than some others...

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9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Of course not. Note that I didn't use the phrase "right wing" in my post.

As I've said before, the issue isn't right vs. left. It's fact-driven and rational vs. the misinformed or deliberately misleading.

What we all need to see is real conservatives -- the rational, intelligent, and responsible ones -- stepping up and seizing control of the conservative agenda back from the conspiracy buffs, as well as responding intelligently to the pandemic. And we are seeing some of that. We need to pray that they succeed. We need an articulate and intelligent right wing.

Agreed and thanks.  I was very encouraged to read "the majority of Americans" agree with Bidenomics.  Our country needs to work together again.  

@Arielle Popstar, as far as some "drugs" being denied people with Covid and that's why they died; I believe some medications were tried but any results from trial medications are not known yet nor published yet.  There have been some trials and that's all I want to say about it.  I have nothing further to say about trial medications or denial of such as a reason for death from Covid and don't have time to look all that info up.  I do think you are over-reacting though, jmho.

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

We already disproved the validity of your supposed Ivermectin de-wormer cures, months ago.

A meme does not disprove a well studied treatment. It was your best rebuttal remember?

Here is the list again of all the ivermectin studies showing 89 studies, 48 peer reviewed, 52 with results comparing treatment and control groups

https://c19ivermectin.com/

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Posted (edited)

Arielle, as mentioned in the Factcheck.org page Luna posted, one can purchase Tamiflu and flu vaccines in the US. My neighbor does so at Walgreens every fall. That directly refutes Dr. Coles assertion that the government won't allow vaccines for things which can be treated. What kind of doctor doesn't know things like this? What kind of doctor does know, but lies?

More importantly, what kind of patient is attracted to someone like this?

A month ago, I recounted in the Darwin thread an experience I had years ago, while on a ghost tour with my ex-hubby.

My ex still cites that incident as a turning point in his slow walk away from faith. He witnessed me "infect" someone with an irrational supernatural idea which moments later I was unable to expunge with an easily understood natural explanation. I'm still not sure if I should feel insulted that he turned further away from faith when he saw my power to manipulate it.

Though I found the entire affair disconcerting, I did ponder the potential of exploiting my storytelling ability for truly nefarious purposes. I jokingly told my ex that I was considering starting a cult. He thought that plausible and scary. Years later, in this very forum, I was declared "High Priestess of the Cult" by a well known forum troll. He was quite convinced that I'd inveigled my way into bed with LL, turning the moderators against him. I did nothing to refute his claims, instead encouraging him to eat himself alive, post by post, until he was permabanned. I like to think he still believes his banishment was the result of my nefarious machinations.

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

They need to up their game to convince the skeptics.

As I've learned, this is sometimes impossible. I was able to inject nonsense into the body of a science skeptic, but unable to extract it again. It isn't that my game was off, it's that we're in different games. I can understand the rules of both games completely, yet still be unable to win back a skeptic because playing by their rules violates the ethics of mine.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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22 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Ignoring the problem and implying that there are two entirely equal sides to every discussion is what got us into this mess.

"Debating" such people got us here. Plain and simple.

No such implication was made, by the by. One side has actual, verifiable facts behind it, one does not. The former is worth responding to, the latter - especially when it uses the tactics shown here - simply is not. At all.

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:
5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We already disproved the validity of your supposed Ivermectin de-wormer cures, months ago.

A meme does not disprove a well studied treatment. It was your best rebuttal remember?

Here is the list again of all the ivermectin studies showing 89 studies, 48 peer reviewed, 52 with results comparing treatment and control groups

https://c19ivermectin.com/

Yes, the ones (quite a few connected websites) who won't identify themselves because they say hate and dangerous threats are directed toward them.   You accept this defense?

Never trust any Science that is not transparent in terms of authors and funding.

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Recent trials of ivermectin for Covid-19

Two studies that have been peer reviewed showed no benefit of ivermectin in humans with Covid-19.

A large study published March 4 in JAMA randomized more than 400 adults with mild Covid-19 to receive ivermectin or a placebo for five days. In this study, ivermectin did not speed recovery.

In a much smaller study that appeared in The Lancet's EClinicalMedicine on February 1, just 20 people with mild Covid-19 received either a single dose of ivermectin or a placebo within 72 hours of symptoms.

Seven days after treatment, there was no difference in the number of people who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, the ones (quite a few connected websites) who won't identify themselves because they say hate and dangerous threats are directed toward them.   You accept this defense?

Never trust any Science that is not transparent in terms of authors and funding.

The science papers are linked and transparent. It is only the one who listed them that isn't identified. That in itself does not discount all those studies. Anyone including you could create a similar site with the exact same papers and identify yourself without it changing the results of the studies themselves. Please stop trying to identify the studies with the one who listed them.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, the ones (quite a few connected websites) who won't identify themselves because they say hate and dangerous threats are directed toward them.   You accept this defense?

Never trust any Science that is not transparent in terms of authors and funding.

The science papers are linked and transparent. It is only the one who listed them that isn't identified. That in itself does not discount all those studies. Anyone including you could create a similar site with the exact same papers and identify yourself without it changing the results of the studies themselves. Please stop trying to identify the studies with the one who listed them.

We already went over this.

These are isolated studies, or abstracts that point to possibilities. They need to be replicated via further experiments, and peer-reviewed (only a few claim to be on this website). Once the latter is done we give the results more credibility. These right-wing websites don't understand a study needs to be replicated and peer-reviewed.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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21 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Arielle, as mentioned in the Factcheck.org page Luna posted, one can purchase Tamiflu and flu vaccines in the US. My neighbor does so at Walgreens every fall. That directly refutes Dr. Coles assertion that the government won't allow vaccines for things which can be treated. What kind of doctor doesn't know things like this? What kind of doctor does know, but lies?

More importantly, what kind of patient is attracted to someone like this

I suspect the difference is that the flu vaccine development is not funded by the government or its health agencies. What I got out of his talk along with something I heard from another source is that the Operation warp speed government subsidized vaccines can only be done when there is no other treatment option. If there is then a vaccine would be the responsibility of the private sector.

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1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

If Ivermectin is so great explain Egyptwhere it's been used

Egypt - country-wide adoption - Nov 30, 2020

Countless other countries on that website showing the same thing.  No discernible decrease in Covid cases when Ivermectin is used.

Screenshot_20210503-133243.png

Ivermectin is not a vaccine but a treatment. It will not prevent cases but will minimize deaths.

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Ivermectin is not a vaccine but a treatment. It will not prevent cases but will minimize deaths.

Didn't do that either.  But carry on Don Quixote.  Done with your insanity.

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will I get suspended from the forum again if I hyperbolically express that I want to jump into a river?

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Debating with facts is fine.  If one cannot debate with facts, or feels it is useless, the better approach is to just walk away.

Calling people names and making fun of people is not the proper way to ever handle things.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Ivermectin is not a vaccine but a treatment. It will not prevent cases but will minimize deaths.

Arielle, I think you are over-reacting because I doubt the full studies of this medicine or other medicines have been fully publicized yet, yet alone the fact that doctors take a hippocratic oath that in layman's terms has been shortened basically to "do no harm".  So, if doctors take an oath to do no harm, how much should they experiment with treatments not fully known?  I don't think full studies will be known for years yet and this is why I think you are over-reacting.

Edited by FairreLilette
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8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We already went over this.

These are isolated studies, or abstracts that point to possibilities. They need to be replicated via further experiments, and peer-reviewed (only a few claim to be on this website). Once the latter is done we give the results more credibility. These right-wing websites don't understand a study needs to be replicated and peer-reviewed.

In the interests of saving 400,000+ deaths, the same emergency use authorization could have been handed out for Ivermectin. What part of saving lives are you not getting?

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I suspect the difference is that the flu vaccine development is not funded by the government or its health agencies. What I got out of his talk along with something I heard from another source is that the Operation warp speed government subsidized vaccines can only be done when there is no other treatment option. If there is then a vaccine would be the responsibility of the private sector.

Errm...  

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/universal-influenza-vaccine-research

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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