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35 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

resort to attempting to discredit those you disagree with

35 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Alinsky tactic

48 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Marxist sites

LOL

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On 3/31/2021 at 10:05 AM, Madelaine McMasters said:

We don't yet know how well the vaccines cover variant strains of the virus, nor do we have good data on the transmissivity and severity of infections from those variants. Early indications are that some variants are more contagious and result in greater morbidity and mortality than the original. I recall reading that the J&J vaccine was only around 50% effective against the South African variant.

This morning I read it is the Pfizer vaccine that is thought now to be the vaccine that can prevent infection from "the variants", while the others no.  

ETA:  I had to look through my history to find the article...here it is:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/this-one-vaccine-may-protect-you-against-all-variants-new-study-says/ss-BB1fgt26?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited by FairreLilette
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19 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

You and another poster in this thread really do need to CHECK YOUR DAMN FACTS.  You're not quite as knowledgeable as you might think you are.  

Once you said we should all just wait for herd immunity BEFORE the vaccine, you lost all credibility in this discussion

 

AT least she had some to begin with :) 

Anyway here some news about the end of Covid by the end of the month when you will be reaching herd immunity according to John Hopkin's Dr Marty Makary

 

 

Two homeless guys are under a bridge and one says to the other "why do you think we haven't gotten coronavirus", the other responds "cause we don't have a tv".

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29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

AT least she had some to begin with :) 

 

No, she really didn't.  

 

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

I choose not to debate you most of the time anymore since essentially you're not worth debating (because you try and make everything fit your right-wing religious agenda, get your information from right-wing rags, and don't understand how Science works). But when you post something dangerous to society (like the bat****crazy doctor) this should be pointed out.
Your theory as to why I don't debate you is ridiculous, as I have the skills and sources to do so -- I am not 'killing the messenger' because I cannot defend my position. The 'messenger' is already dead, is the problem.

I don't normally quote Luna but this right here expresses exactly how I feel.  You're just not worth my time anymore.

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I am so over this Covid stuff, burnt out more like it. And this whole vaccine thing too funny. If you want to get it, get it and if not then don't. I was a against the vaccine in the beginning but I then realized that if I want to be with my bf in the Netherlands then I will have to get it. 

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

AT least she had some to begin with :) 

Anyway here some news about the end of Covid by the end of the month when you will be reaching herd immunity according to John Hopkin's Dr Marty Makary

 

 

Two homeless guys are under a bridge and one says to the other "why do you think we haven't gotten coronavirus", the other responds "cause we don't have a tv".

This is one doctor's opinion and does not concur with Dr. Fauci's opinion.  Why should we believe him?  Frankly, I don't.  Do you have any other links besides FOX News to support this?  Sounds like wanting the stock market to be shorted back down - buy the rumor, sell the news kind of thing.  The vaccine is supposedly already priced into the market but this is novel, herd immunity by April...?  How so?

And, ah...just checking now...I see...it was a Wall Street Journal article?  Yeah right.  (rolls eyes here)

February Wall Street Journal opinion article, Makary predicted that the U.S. would achieve herd immunity by April. With Johns Hopkins recording over 60,000 new cases of COVID-19 on the last day of March alone, that prediction seems nearly certain to fall short. Makary said that unspecified "medical experts privately agreed with my prediction" but had asked him to remain silent about herd immunity "because people might become complacent and fail to take precautions or might decline the vaccine."

Edited by JanuarySwan
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What Are the Challenges to Developing Herd Immunity to COVID-19?

The main obstacle to herd immunity to COVID-19 right now is that the virus that causes the disease is “novel,” or new. That means that it hasn’t infected humans before and everyone is at risk of infection. There’s no existing immunity to build on.

 

Another potential barrier is that we don’t know how strong the immune protection is or how long it will last in people who’ve had COVID-19. Early research on monkeys showed that they made antibodies to the virus that protected them from a second infection a month later. If the coronavirus is like the flu, we can expect a few months of protection.

While there are now vaccines to protect against COVID-19, It will be months before enough people can receive them. iI is hoped, that the vaccines will eventually help bring the spread under control. Researchers estimate that 75-80% of the population would need to be vaccinated before we can have herd immunity.

From 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/what-is-herd-immunity#1

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There's no need to guess about how close the US is to herd immunity. The CDC measures it.

Blood samples taken by commercial labs for other purposes. are randomly sampled for coronavirus antibodies. If someone has either had the disease or has been vaccinated, there will be antibodies. There's data for each state. This runs about 6 weeks behind, so right now the data is for mid-February.

Watch those numbers. When they reach 80-90%, it's over.

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19 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Two homeless guys are under a bridge and one says to the other "why do you think we haven't gotten coronavirus", the other responds "cause we don't have a tv".

The cognitive dissonance here is blinding.

In Canada, where we both live Arielle, ICUs are in the process of being overrun right at the moment with new, often younger patients who are being put on "advanced life support" because of the severity of their symptoms. As of Saturday morning, there were 450 patients in ICUs in Ontario alone, and some predictions are suggesting we'll hit 800 by the end of the month.

Severe eye strain from watching too much CBC news, perhaps?

Quote

Shankar Sivananthan, a critical care physician in Toronto, says that what he's seeing in the ICU now is "certainly the most challenging time I've had in the ICU since the pandemic started."

"The number of patients that are coming to the hospital needing to be admitted to hospital, and then subsequently needing to be sent to the ICU, is definitely up. The biggest difference this time around, though, is the age of the patient," he said in a phone interview.

"The last two to three weeks has just been patients half the age of our typical patients, and that's been incredibly challenging."

Some of those patients — people between 30 and 50 years old with no previous medical issues — are on advanced life support because of their COVID-19 infection, noted Fielding.

More than 150 intensive care physicians, including Sivananthan, have signed an open letter to the Ontario government, released Thursday ahead of the province's shutdown announcement, that warns of exponential growth of variant COVID-19 infections that could overwhelm ICUs.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/icus-in-crisis-beyond-the-chauvin-trial-unionizing-amazon-china-s-digital-currency-depresh-mode-and-more-1.5973360/situation-in-ontario-icus-like-a-never-ending-fire-amid-covid-19-3rd-wave-says-nurse-1.5973374

 

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

@Scylla Rhiadra, here's more from CBC News Network:

I am so angry right now.

I am at the point of thinking it's time to start hitting those who are spreading disinformation that is literally killing people with lawsuits and criminal charges.

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40 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am so angry right now.

I am at the point of thinking it's time to start hitting those who are spreading disinformation that is literally killing people with lawsuits and criminal charges.

I am hearing discussion about eventually bringing charges against the worlds most dangerous spreader of lies. He and his spreaders such as those in this forum cost hundreds of thousands of lives, including medical personnel risking their lives. 

Edited by Pamela Galli
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9 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:
45 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am so angry right now.

I am at the point of thinking it's time to start hitting those who are spreading disinformation that is literally killing people with lawsuits and criminal charges.

I am hearing discussion about eventually bringing charges against the worlds most dangerous spreader of lies. He and his spreaders such as those in this forum cost hundreds of thousands of lives, including medical personnel risking their lives. 

The complexity of the calculus might well prevent bringing anyone to "justice". Those on the right can and will argue that the cure has been worse than the disease. At the very beginning of this, Wisconsin's own Ron Johnson argued that losing a few million vulnerable Americans to Covid-19 was better than imposing economic hardship on far far more. I imagine he'll view the loss of less than a million as evidence we over reacted.

We'll be arguing about this for decades to come. One man's cognitive dissonance...

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5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

The complexity of the calculus might well prevent bringing anyone to "justice". Those on the right can and will argue that the cure has been worse than the disease. At the very beginning of this, Wisconsin's own Ron Johnson argued that losing a few million vulnerable Americans to Covid-19 was better than imposing economic hardship on far far more. I imagine he'll view the loss of less than a million as evidence we over reacted.

We'll be arguing about this for decades to come. One man's cognitive dissonance...

It never was a tradeoff, one or the other. It was always about getting the virus under control SO we could save both lives AND the economy. Instead Trump et al pushed opening businesses — FORCING super spreader meat packing plants to open without effective safety measures — at the expense of lives. To further accelerate reaching herd immunity, they ridiculed and still ridicule masking and social distancing, and went around knowingly hosting or supporting every kind of super spreading event. 

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/09/politics/coronavirus-trump-woodward-timeline/

 

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The cognitive dissonance here is blinding.

In Canada, where we both live Arielle, ICUs are in the process of being overrun right at the moment with new, often younger patients who are being put on "advanced life support" because of the severity of their symptoms. As of Saturday morning, there were 450 patients in ICUs in Ontario alone, and some predictions are suggesting we'll hit 800 by the end of the month.

Severe eye strain from watching too much CBC news, perhaps?

 

I don't watch TV actually like the homeless guys. I did check the Covid tracker for my area and seen that the ICU patient numbers were down. There hasn't been a death since the third quarter of March and though I see case numbers increasing a bit, the overall deaths have been dropping since January. I still do not know of anyone that has Covid much less died from it but do know of several who have died as a result of the lockdowns including a friend three doors up who quietly offed himself when he couldn't get into a treatment facility. 

The charge of cognitive dissonance seems a little cognitively dissident considering I am one of the few in this forum at least who has been pointing out some methods for preventative measures while everyone waits for a vaccine that may or may not help depending on who is listened too. How about you? Are you helping anyone cope in the meantime or just wringing hands and gnashing teeth at all the news and throwing out accusations at those of us posting something a little upbeat in sea of depressive media announcements that you and yours are trotting out here?

Here are some Canadian Doctors on Covid 

https://odysee.com/@All_About_Vaccines!:7/Canadian-Drs-Speak-Out:b

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Oh for .... Enough with the narrative that this forum is at all helping to spread mis/disinformation.

No one outside of Second Life users will be reading these posts. Period.

Sit down.

That out of the way ... Those pretending to present more information/an alternate view? You can sit down as well. You're doing no such thing.

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51 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Lady Maverick is on the prowl again...

 

One Mouse asked the other Mouse " Are you taking the Covid Vaccine ? "....The Mouse responded and said " Do you think i'm Stupid, they're still testing them out on Humans! "

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

We'll be arguing about this for decades to come.

We better pray there isn't another pandemic during those decades.

Unfortunately I didn't catch the source, but I heard somewhere in the past couple days a detailed comparison of those economies that practiced "mitigation" such as North America and the EU, vs those that practiced "zero tolerance" lockdown strategies such as Korea, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, etc. There's no way to make that a complete apples-to-apples comparison, I'm sure, but just knowing what we do about how those economies performed, it's pretty clear that "mitigation" was a colossally expensive failure.

As I understand the distinction, "zero tolerance" means strict lockdowns until there is no community transmission that is not completely contact-traced forward and back such that every single case fits into a comprehensive family tree of transmission. The theory is that once a health system can do that, the virus is "under control". That's a lot easier with abundant, accurate testing, but given enough patience and enforcement it can be done with no testing at all, and is really the only practical option if there's not plenty of a super effective vaccine on the immediate horizon.

It not only saves lives, but in the case of COVID-19, it saved economies.

I don't much care what happens to Former Guy, but the West better get smarter about fighting pandemics, and fast. This has been one unforced error after another, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in North America alone. I'd sure rather spend time and effort improving our capacity for future response, rather than trying to identify which faceless  Hubei functionary was even more guilty of cover-up than all his guilty colleagues, or which half-witted American politician screwed the pooch even more than all the others.

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13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

One Mouse asked the other Mouse " Are you taking the Covid Vaccine ? "....The Mouse responded and said " Do you think i'm Stupid, they're still testing them out on Humans! "

Ok, I'm one of those stupid humans, according to your mouse, who received the vaccine.  I had felt under the weather from it and still have about a 10-15% residual of just not feeling so well.  However, I have an earache and I think I may have something else right now and it was not COVID vaccine related at all.  I won't see a doctor until next week though but the earache is mild so I can wait til end of the week.

Anyhow, things you said you brought to this forum in your other post.  Is that Vitamin-D and hydroxychloroquine?  

As far as vitamin-D.  I've been out every day for about a half an hour in the sun.  It's not helping yet as I'd hoped it would.  But, perhaps I have an infection and will need antibiotics...I just don't know at this writing.  But, vitamin-D has been recommend to the Brits I thought or perhaps that is fake news, I really don't know.

Next, hydroxychloroquine:  It's not known what dose one needs nor has it really been proven it's a preventative.  Also, hydroxychloroquine is for lupus patients and doctors and others in the field didn't want to see supplies diminish to where those with lupus would not have enough of the medicine.  It's not good for us to self-medicate ourselves for one and also it's not known if the benefit outweighs the risk.  Benefit to risk needs to be considered in all meds as does possible toxic effects as all meds can be toxic at the wrong dose.  I think you have made this hydroxychloroquine a kind of G-d and you seem a reasonable person so you know darn well it isn't, let alone you don't really know what dose is toxic or not as I doubt you are an expert in toxicology.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

We better pray there isn't another pandemic during those decades.

Unfortunately I didn't catch the source, but I heard somewhere in the past couple days a detailed comparison of those economies that practiced "mitigation" such as North America and the EU, vs those that practiced "zero tolerance" lockdown strategies such as Korea, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, etc. There's no way to make that a complete apples-to-apples comparison, I'm sure, but just knowing what we do about how those economies performed, it's pretty clear that "mitigation" was a colossally expensive failure.

As I understand the distinction, "zero tolerance" means strict lockdowns until there is no community transmission that is not completely contact-traced forward and back such that every single case fits into a comprehensive family tree of transmission. The theory is that once a health system can do that, the virus is "under control". That's a lot easier with abundant, accurate testing, but given enough patience and enforcement it can be done with no testing at all, and is really the only practical option if there's not plenty of a super effective vaccine on the immediate horizon.

It not only saves lives, but in the case of COVID-19, it saved economies.

I don't much care what happens to Former Guy, but the West better get smarter about fighting pandemics, and fast. This has been one unforced error after another, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in North America alone. I'd sure rather spend time and effort improving our capacity for future response, rather than trying to identify which faceless  Hubei functionary was even more guilty of cover-up than all his guilty colleagues, or which half-witted American politician screwed the pooch even more than all the others.

In all of this the aspect that keeps me surprised is the lack of focus on the number 1 place where deaths are taking place:

Less than 1% of America’s population lives in long-term-care facilities, but as of March 4, 2021, this tiny fraction of the country accounts for 34% of US COVID-19 deaths.

Cumulative

1,326,512
Total cases
174,474
Total deaths
33,639
Total number of facilities affected

https://covidtracking.com/nursing-homes-long-term-care-facilities

Resolve the vulnerability of people in these Long term care homes and we likely wouldn't have had nearly the problem we did. And don't bother telling me that older people are more prone to it because I will call BS as I live in a retirement community where there have been only several cases of Covid with no reported deaths. 

First and foremost need an in depth inquiry into what it is about LTC's that make these places a literal death trap.

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13 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

We better pray there isn't another pandemic during those decades.

Unfortunately I didn't catch the source, but I heard somewhere in the past couple days a detailed comparison of those economies that practiced "mitigation" such as North America and the EU, vs those that practiced "zero tolerance" lockdown strategies such as Korea, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, etc. There's no way to make that a complete apples-to-apples comparison, I'm sure, but just knowing what we do about how those economies performed, it's pretty clear that "mitigation" was a colossally expensive failure.

As I understand the distinction, "zero tolerance" means strict lockdowns until there is no community transmission that is not completely contact-traced forward and back such that every single case fits into a comprehensive family tree of transmission. The theory is that once a health system can do that, the virus is "under control". That's a lot easier with abundant, accurate testing, but given enough patience and enforcement it can be done with no testing at all, and is really the only practical option if there's not plenty of a super effective vaccine on the immediate horizon.

It not only saves lives, but in the case of COVID-19, it saved economies.

I don't much care what happens to Former Guy, but the West better get smarter about fighting pandemics, and fast. This has been one unforced error after another, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in North America alone. I'd sure rather spend time and effort improving our capacity for future response, rather than trying to identify which faceless  Hubei functionary was even more guilty of cover-up than all his guilty colleagues, or which half-witted American politician screwed the pooch even more than all the others.

The same people who helped us reach 400k unnecessary covid deaths are now working to ensure the pandemic is unending. 40% of Republicans say they will not take the vaccine, presumably the same ones who refuse to mask. 

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