Dear clothing merchants...

[Quistess Alpha]

1 hour ago, Finite said:

PS naming the creators isn't allowed according to this forum's TOS. If it were I would make a post about who are posers and who are legit.

I know that, It doesn't prevent you from sending them a polite direct IM, telling them about your feelings about their products, or leaving a review. Like people normally do.

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Quistessa said:

I know that, It doesn't prevent you from sending them a polite direct IM, telling them about your feelings about their products, or leaving a review. Like people normally do.

Yes but I am not sure what your argument is here. Are you saying I shouldn't post a thread in an open forum because you don't agree with it? Because that's how its coming across.

[Finite]

15 minutes ago, Freya Olivieri said:

 

But again working without proper bakes and UV maps would be trial and error... like painting a picture in the dark. You'd have to be extremely skilled to do that. Personally I couldn't pass that test, but kudos to you if you can.

It's not that hard at all actually. In fact it's how we textured things before mesh was introduced to SL. Here's a full-perm dress I bought that came with maps that I didn't use. https://imgur.com/CcZWg6C

I used diffuse, normals and spec textures.

[Freya Olivieri]

32 minutes ago, Finite said:

It's not that hard at all actually. In fact it's how we textured things before mesh was introduced to SL. Here's a full-perm dress I bought that came with maps that I didn't use. https://imgur.com/CcZWg6C

I used diffuse, normals and spec textures.

I am aware of how sculpties worked Thankfully, we don't have to do that anymore.

Still you had a full perm dress and access to UV as well as bakes. I wouldn't call that working in blind.

EDIT: also i will add,  since enjoy creating and buying full perm, i can suggest that you open a little store and share your creations with people who can also enjoy them. just an idea 😊

Edited February 25, 2021 by Freya Olivieri

[Quistess Alpha]

1 hour ago, Quistessa said:

I know that, It doesn't prevent you from sending them a polite direct IM, telling them about your feelings about their products, or leaving a review. Like people normally do.

 

1 hour ago, Finite said:

Yes but I am not sure what your argument is here. Are you saying I shouldn't post a thread in an open forum because you don't agree with it? Because that's how its coming across.

If you can't take my words in good faith, I will try (and probably fail) to write my sentiments in the clearest form I can before I bow out.

Firstly I neither agree nor disagree with the sentiments in your original post:

On 2/22/2021 at 1:04 PM, Finite said:

... please enable mod on your fatpacks. While I appreciate that you have made a selection of available colors, I'd personally like access to the entire spectrum of RGB than just the ones you have chosen for me. I completely understand why single items are no-mod but do not see the purpose in fatpacks also being no-mod.

Sincerely,

Finite - Avid shopper

Yes, it would be nice if more creators made yes-mod fatpacks. although as people have pointed out there are valid reasons for them not to do so.

Secondly, as you are taking an action (posting in this forum) in furtherance of a goal (attempting to persuade creators to make yes-mod fatpacks of their clothing) I would like to point out that there are more effective actions (direct IMs to specific creators, reviews, creating competing products) you can take in furtherance of your goal in addition to what you are already doing.

-Tessa Out.

[Finite]

1 hour ago, Freya Olivieri said:

I am aware of how sculpties worked Thankfully, we don't have to do that anymore.

Still you had a full perm dress and access to UV as well as bakes. I wouldn't call that working in blind.

EDIT: also i will add,  since enjoy creating and buying full perm, i can suggest that you open a little store and share your creations with people who can also enjoy them. just an idea 😊

The UV's were available but I didn't use them. I just used regular textures with their own normals and specs. Not the ones from the UV. This is how we textured prims. I have no idea how sculpties worked to be honest. They really weren't prevalent for long relative to mesh.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Finite

[Finite]

1 hour ago, Quistessa said:

Secondly, as you are taking an action (posting in this forum) in furtherance of a goal (attempting to persuade creators to make yes-mod fatpacks of their clothing) I would like to point out that there are more effective actions (direct IMs to specific creators, reviews, creating competing products) you can take in furtherance of your goal in addition to what you are already doing.

-Tessa Out.

I think you misinterpret the point to a discussion board. There's really no goal other than to open a discussion. If a creator happens upon it and chimes in (like Freya has) then great. My post isn't meant to change her or anyone else. If they consider my suggestion or request and don't apply it that's great too. It's a just a single perspective from a single player on the forums. Some people like to see how others view things. Even if they don't agree with it. I'm not naive enough to think someone or a group of people are going to change because of something I said. I understand how frustrating it can be to deal with customers. Especially the ones who are also newer players. I once saw a CSR, I think from Genus trying to help a new player. I took a nap and woke up 6 hours later (okay it was more of a weed coma than a nap). They were still trying to help the same person. I don't think me personally would have been able to put up with that. I even put a note in their note box people have in their profile that said "best CSR ever". Anyways, I have my reasons for posting my thoughts here and they have their reasons not to consider them.

 

2 hours ago, Quistessa said:

I know that, It doesn't prevent you from sending them a polite direct IM, telling them about your feelings about their products, or leaving a review. Like people normally do.

This was good faith?

Edited February 25, 2021 by Finite

[JoJo Aurelia]

Ugh no. I wouldn't want my design in some horrible color walking around. 

[MeshPromo]

My selling stuff are mod. I think those who sell no mod are expecting that the customers don't add their own textures/colors/objects to ruin it. Also they might not want to the customers having freedom to modify as they wish, so they get more opportunity of making another HUD and sell it.

[Finite]

On 4/9/2021 at 1:48 AM, MeshPromo said:

My selling stuff are mod. I think those who sell no mod are expecting that the customers don't add their own textures/colors/objects to ruin it. Also they might not want to the customers having freedom to modify as they wish, so they get more opportunity of making another HUD and sell it.

Yes that's why I said for fatpacks. Not individual sales.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Finite

[Finite]

On 4/8/2021 at 5:24 AM, JoJo Aurelia said:

Ugh no. I wouldn't want my design in some horrible color walking around. 

All honesty. If someone is requesting to mod something you did it's likely because they can or at least feel as if they can texture it better than you did. Or just found some other use for it other than what you had intended. Which just gives people who otherwise wouldn't buy your stuff a reason to.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Finite

[drusilladarkwillow]

I'm not sure if anyone has even mentioned this and I know that this is an old post.

What you're asking for is a double edge sword. Yes someone can break it and yes it may not even look right. But I'm going to assume that you know what you're doing. So when others go to inspect your clothing as they also want to buy it, they'll go to the creators marketplace or inworld store to look for it. They may end up messaging said creator inquiring about the item. Once they see that the item for sale isn't the same as what they had saw on you, they can become upset and lash out at the original creator. This is apart of why some chose to make their items no mod, it's to avoid that headache.

It's a reasonable request, just one that many just chose to avoid.

[FreeToSL]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:30 PM, drusilladarkwillow said:

I'm not sure if anyone has even mentioned this and I know that this is an old post.

What you're asking for is a double edge sword. Yes someone can break it and yes it may not even look right. But I'm going to assume that you know what you're doing. So when others go to inspect your clothing as they also want to buy it, they'll go to the creators marketplace or inworld store to look for it. They may end up messaging said creator inquiring about the item. Once they see that the item for sale isn't the same as what they had saw on you, they can become upset and lash out at the original creator. This is apart of why some chose to make their items no mod, it's to avoid that headache.

It's a reasonable request, just one that many just chose to avoid.

The OPs complain is about a VERY narrow subset of clothes, namely:  Fatpack, that uses tinted colouring instead of baked textures.

And to be honest, I would never buy something like that out of principle, because its basically ONE colour (The ambient occlusion texture), and then it takes all of 30 seconds to tint it.

And as a creator I would not sell my stuff mod, if I want the customer to tint it, I will put a hud with a colour palette, so they can play with the clothes, without risk of breaking them.

[drusilladarkwillow]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:11 AM, FreeToSL said:

The OPs complain is about a VERY narrow subset of clothes, namely:  Fatpack, that uses tinted colouring instead of baked textures.

And to be honest, I would never buy something like that out of principle, because its basically ONE colour (The ambient occlusion texture), and then it takes all of 30 seconds to tint it.

And as a creator I would not sell my stuff mod, if I want the customer to tint it, I will put a hud with a colour palette, so they can play with the clothes, without risk of breaking them.

I understood the original post. I was adding on to others answers. I felt no need to repeat what was already stated by others. I do understand where the OP's is coming from as well. My statement still stands though.

As a creator myself, I do sell items that are modifiable, it just depends on what it is. As a customer, I don't purchase many mesh clothing if they don't have a texture changing hud. I enjoy those. It's the better option to the old fatpack ways. But yeah, I agree with you on the whole tinting thing. They wanted to be able to add onto the clothing though, like adding a rip and such which means editing it offworld iirc.

[Coffee Pancake]

My 2c...

Everything I make and sell is copy and mod. If you break it, you get to keep both pieces, rez another copy and break it again.

You can totally IM me and say "hey, I broke it trying to  ______" and I will just help you.

Scripts are the exception to being mod, but I try to keep things sane .. if the script doesn't do what you want, I'd really like to know .. means I can improve my product and issue an update, everyone wins. If you're trying to rescript something I've made with your own code and it's not obvious why it's not doing what you want, I will probably just help. If my documentation isn't clear, I really really want to know!

If you take something I've made and turn it into an eyesore that makes people's eyes bleed. Good for you! Send me a picture!

If you like what I've made and want something similar but different .. message me, if you can get my interest and I can make the time, I will probably end up making it exactly how you want it. I get a new product I can sell to other people and will give you a copy for free. Thanks for the motivation!

I've been making and selling things in SL since 2006 across several accounts. This has been my primary source of income more than once. The most fun I have ever had running a business has always been the stuff that happens between vanishing down a rabbit hole to make the next thing. Seeing what people do with the stuff I've made makes it all worthwhile.

Ran my (nothing to do with SL) RL business the same way (at one point employing 11 people) , the special projects truly made the difference between it feeling like a job and just not like work at all.

 

Fatpack clothing should totally be mod as standard (especially as clothing is ALWAYS copy). If someone likes the thing enough to buy the fatpack and then wishes they could tweak the tint to match something else, or make it shiny, or script it to do something really silly, what has the creator actually lost? I've seen entire communities in SL all go mad for something just because it was mod, it becoming the flavor of the month while everyone just riffs off each other .. ends result, it becomes a must have item and makes way more sales and everyone involved ends up buying more things from the same creator to keep the fun going.

 

[Finite]

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I've seen entire communities in SL all go mad for something just because it was mod, it becoming the flavor of the month while everyone just riffs off each other .. ends result, it becomes a must have item and makes way more sales and everyone involved ends up buying more things from the same creator to keep the fun going.

 

One of my favorite creators (Maybe 3rd favorite?) sells clothes that aren't even a style that I prefer. Sometimes they come out with outfits I like but generally not the genre I go with for my avie. But they're always well crafted and mod and I know I can make use of their products somehow or eventually so I generally stock up on their outfits. For instance they had this top that had sleeves and gloves. I was able to separate the gloves from the outfit and use them by themselves. Now I don't know if the creator saw me rocking these gloves or not but like 2 or 3 weeks after me doing this guess who had gloves for sale at the following shopping event... I did something similar to another outfit of theirs that had a battery pack on the back. I didn't detach it this time. I just made the rest of the outfit invisible so only the battery pack remained and used it for this picture I took last year.