Rigging in max

[Naiman Broome]

SoI have got several dev kits for different mesh bodies, but most use maya, blender or other fbx files that when imported in max seem to have issues. they allhave different skeleton setups and some time even naming is different, rotation of bones etc.

 

 

So my question is , shouln't all those dev bodies use the very same lindenlab provided skeleton? If so why when I import a mesh from another dev into the same scene with another dev kit mesh and skeleton , the old one becomes deformed and distorted?

 

Can I so to create a cloth that adapts to all bodies, just model conphorm it to the shape, regardless of the rigging, and then rig that cloth just on the same LL skeleton? Or will it have deforming clipping issues?

[npcee]

5 hours ago, Naiman Broome said:

So my question is , shouln't all those dev bodies use the very same lindenlab provided skeleton? If so why when I import a mesh from another dev into the same scene with another dev kit mesh and skeleton , the old one becomes deformed and distorted?

From my experience, all of these devkits (or at least the few ones I tried) were made specifically for avastar. And Avastar will do some correcting on the skeleton before exporting the file (or maybe its ignoring some values and using its own?)

 

5 hours ago, Naiman Broome said:

Can I so to create a cloth that adapts to all bodies, just model conphorm it to the shape, regardless of the rigging, and then rig that cloth just on the same LL skeleton? Or will it have deforming clipping issues?

Ok, so a few things to consider: everything in second life that is fitted/rigged, be it an entire mesh body, a skirt or a pair of shoes, shares the exact same skeleton. However, something like an animesh horse for example, despite still using the exact same skeleton, would have that skeleton deformed in a different way. Like, maybe the arm bones would be longer and positioned in front of the leg bones, to make that horse shape.

But still, from my experience, all of those popular mesh bodies that we all know, they all use exactly the same skeleton that we use with regular system bodies. That means that all the bones have the same scale and same relative positions. So, lets say you made a fitmesh skirt for system bodies... to make that same skirt rigged for maitreya (as an example) is just a matter of positioning and maybe some scaling, you dont really need a "maitreya skeleton" (after all, the mesh body is just something else sharing the same "universal" skeleton as everything else you are wearing).

The real problem comes when you are making something like a very skin-tight pair of pants, and you are trying to get a blueberry-level kind of fitting for different mesh bodies. Or if you are making a top that will fit well people with size 40 boobs as well as people with size 100 boobs, across different mesh bodies. Doing something like that without using any assisting tools like avastar will require a lot of trial and error (but its not impossible).

[Naiman Broome]

2 minutes ago, npcee said:

From my experience, all of these devkits (or at least the few ones I tried) were made specifically for avastar. And Avastar will do some correcting on the skeleton before exporting the file (or maybe its ignoring some values and using its own?)

 

Ok, so a few things to consider: everything in second life that is fitted/rigged, be it an entire mesh body, a skirt or a pair of shoes, shares the exact same skeleton. However, something like an animesh horse for example, despite still using the exact same skeleton, would have that skeleton deformed in a different way. Like, maybe the arm bones would be longer and positioned in front of the leg bones, to make that horse shape.

But still, from my experience, all of those popular mesh bodies that we all know, they all use exactly the same skeleton that we use with regular system bodies. That means that all the bones have the same scale and same relative positions. So, lets say you made a fitmesh skirt for system bodies... to make that same skirt rigged for maitreya (as an example) is just a matter of positioning and maybe some scaling, you dont really need a "maitreya skeleton" (after all, the mesh body is just something else sharing the same "universal" skeleton as everything else you are wearing).

The real problem comes when you are making something like a very skin-tight pair of pants, and you are trying to get a blueberry-level kind of fitting for different mesh bodies. Or if you are making a top that will fit well people with size 40 boobs as well as people with size 100 boobs, across different mesh bodies. Doing something like that without using any assisting tools like avastar will require a lot of trial and error (but its not impossible).

The way I see I can , either Refit the clothing in Marvellous Designer, creating different fitting for different bodies, but this might change some foldings and eventually require a different bake for each garment, bonus point it will have a precise tailored fiting for each body, or make one single cloth on a chosen body and then readapt tht to all the others, which might be done by use of cages, soft selections and other ways or even morph targets then rerigged on the other body, thi might though be a little quicker way but have less precision fitting I gues...

 

That's just guess work from my part as I have yet to try to make even one cloth for SL , so what you think , might that be correct?

[npcee]

Hum... I think refitting everything in MD for each body is super overkill... when you watch the (very few) videos on youtube of people rigging their clothes, what I notice is that usually like you said the creators have a "target" body (or a favorite body? I dunno...) and they try to get the rigging right for that one specific body. When that is done, they just hide one body and select a different one, and then make small adjustments for that one.

For example... something rigged for maitreya doesnt really need a lot of work to also fit legacy, since the bodies are extremely similar (proportion wise). In blender, just by using the "pull" (hook?) sculpt tool, you can already bring the garment to the surface of the other body. However, Im gonna assume that something rigged for maitreya would need a bit more work to rig for slink hourglass, since the body is way more curvy.

If you want a very simple exercise to get the hang of it... try making a belly piercing! Its super easy, only needs to rig a few bones and its a good way to learn about how the bones affect the rig.

Edited February 6, 2021 by npcee

[Quarrel Kukulcan]

13 hours ago, Naiman Broome said:

Can I so to create a cloth that adapts to all bodies, just model conphorm it to the shape, regardless of the rigging, and then rig that cloth just on the same LL skeleton? Or will it have deforming clipping issues?

Short version: If you rig your clothes with the exact same weights as the body underneath, they'll conform to the shape. For this, you'll need the body's dev kit (which provides a modeling dummy you can copy weights from) and whatever add-on tools the dev used to make that kit. And they generally have to use add-on tools because of the weird way Linden Lab chose to add Fitted Mesh bones to the skeleton, which you have to support if you want bodies and clothes that respond to all SL's body shape sliders.