Newer mesh clothing automatically activating alpha areas?

[Semirans]

I encountered an oddity when I began buying some newer mesh clothing.  A few years ago I began buying mesh blanks and making my own textures.  I had resolved to not buy anything that I didn't "texture" and prim to make me look like the designer. This information is important to understand my question. Recently I noticed that what was available as ready made textures was far superior to what I could make and decided to just enjoy the pretty things that other people were making for my avatar.  I have a Maitreya body with a system head. I do not have any other prosthetics such as tango or lolas.  I have altered the shape so that I am much more curvy than the standard Lara shape.  I ALWAYS get demos prior to purchasing clothing if they are available.

So this past week I have been looking at getting some clothing whose textures are beyond my skill level.  I wanted some good looking jeans.  I spent a considerable amount of time shopping for demos because most jean or pants textures tended to be heavily shaded under and between the buttocks.  This is fine on a skinny avatar, but on mine, it makes it appear as if I have 2 large round beach balls in the back of my pants.  I was able to find a couple of designers whose textures were superior and did not have the shading I was referring to.  The demos worked fine, none of my "shape" leaked thru anywhere, so I bought the jeans.  I was very amazed that I didn't need to fuss with my alpha cuts on my HUD at all.

I bought a few more things to go with the jeans, some sweaters, shirts etc and was playing around with seeing what layered well.  Everything I bought, I tried the demos first.  Everything was amazing and I was very excited that mesh had somehow evolved and that I didn't need to struggle with what would layer and if the alpha cuts on the HUD were small enough so that when I used them half of my neck or leg was transparent in order to use the clothing.

Here is what I didn't realize and what I came here to ask. While I was making some outfits and preparing "save sticks" I realized that somehow the newer clothing I had bought was automatically activating the alpha cuts on my Maitreya body. While this made the use of the save sticks unnecessary, it also meant that the clothing that I had carefully selected (using the demos) was not actually fitting to my shape.  Those wonderful jeans that I bought activate every alpha cut on my legs, making my entire legs transparent in order for them to "fit" and not have my skin bleed thru. Unless I am off my nut, that means the jeans that I demoed, don't actually fit my Maitreya body with my custom shape. 

I own hundreds of "mesh blanks" from other creators that I have been using over the last few years and none of them do this and if they require extensive alpha cuts, I don't buy/use them. I feel that I have in essence been cheated into buying product that does not fit my shape and alters it automatically (even in the demos) so that I wasn't aware that in order to use them, my body parts would be made transparent because the clothing is not stretching.  So is this a new feature that everyone knows about and basically I might as well use the default Lara shape because anything I buy now will just activate the alpha cuts so my actual shape doesn't bleed thru?

In case anyone thinks I am a total moron, I will add a few things here, I started in SL before mesh bodies (or clothing) was a thing.  I recall the hubub about the 5 standard sizes.  As I mentioned in my post above, I own 100's of mesh blanks from various creators and NONE of them requires extensive (more than 2-10) alpha cuts to be activated in order to fit my Maitreya body using my custom shape, so I know that it isn't that my shape is somehow out of bounds and can't be rigged correctly.

Advice anyone?  I bought demos, tested things out to make sure they fit "correctly" I would not have purchased them if I had know that I had to alpha out everything under the clothing to make them "fit"

[Chic Aeon]

5 minutes ago, Semirans said:

 

Advice anyone?  I bought demos, tested things out to make sure they fit "correctly" I would not have purchased them if I had know that I had to alpha out everything under the clothing to make them "fit"

While many clothes these days activate the alpha cuts automatically, they are STILL RIGGED to conform to various bodies. So even if the alpha cuts are turned on, it isn't always because they need to be, just a precaution and in some ways for those using other than the top name bodies -- ones that Maitreya "almost" fits. If the clothes were really "the standard Lara body" shape whatever that might be in your mind, I am sure you would have noted that your shape had been changed by the clothes.   

 

So perhaps turning off the alpha cuts manually and seeing how MUCH poke through you have will give you a better idea who to buy from in the future. There are many really good riggers out there that make almost not there clothing (all straps and buckles and little material) that fit perfectly with no alphas. Really gobs of them. So you can find what you are looking for if your first experience wasn't up to what you expected.     IMO the designers weren't trying to cheat at all, just trying to make it easier for their customers.    This feature has been around for years by the way. Maybe three? Four?  I haven't been paying attention but it isn't new at all.    

 

Hopefully you can still enjoy your new purchases!   

[Semirans]

Thank you for your reply. When I was referring to the "standard lara shape"  I meant the shape that comes with the Maitreya body. I wouldn't be surprised if the feature has been around fr a few years. I haven't bought anything made by other designers in at least that time.  I posted last night right as I discovered the issue and wasn't thinking very rationally.  The reason I didnt notice the alterations to my shape was because I had selected more baggy clothing (I'm an old woman and prefer less revealing styles) and as you mentioned the designer had selected all the alpha cuts and upon reflection this morning, the amount of distortion of my shape was much smaller than I had first thought.

I agree that the inclusion of the alpha cuts is very much a boon as fiddling with save sticks and alpha cuts every time change clothing is a big pain.  Thank you for your kind words and advice. I do love the new clothes and it isn't as bad as I first thought.

[LittleMe Jewell]

There is actually quite a bit of automatic alpha cutting going on in mesh clothing - and some from a few really decent creators.  There are scripts that can be bought to drop into the item that will save a set of alpha cuts and then automatically apply them with the clothing item -- much more useful before the Maitreya upgrade with 'save sticks'. 

Some creators do this because the cuts are needed -- one thing someone pointed out to me:  a super tight-waisted mermaid dress or corset will almost always need alpha cuts around the waist.

Some creators do it as a left over from the days of Standard Sizing and they just simply go ahead and alpha everything under the clothing item.

Some creators do it because they don't have the actual creator/developer kit for a specific body or they really are bad at rigging and thus need the alpha cuts to handle specific areas.

 

These days, I watch my Maitreya HUD to see if alphas get automatically applied when I demo clothing.  If so, then I usually won't buy it.  One of the biggest problems with the auto-alpha scripts is that they can conflict with each other -- top added after bottoms ends up removing the bottom alphas when apply the top alphas.   Thus, even if an item does need an alpha cut here and there, if I find that acceptable in an item, I still want to apply the cuts myself.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Semirans]

I forgot to ask something related.  Since I might, sometime in the future, go back to making clothing Is this a script they use to make the clothing trigger the alpha cuts or is it some new layer they can add to the product.  Does the feature have an official title so I can look up more about it? I know that a few of the blanks I have bought included an alpha layer (not the system thingy) but another texture that is labeled "alpha" but I never knew what it was for

EDIT: Jewel just replied about the scripts as i was posting this.  Thank you!

Edited February 4, 2021 by Semirans
crossover reply

[Semirans]

Ok, so that raises another question, if the clothing has a script in it, is it still standard to remove scripts to reduce the load?  Do I need to worry about it since it seems you would need the script each time you load the clothing, not like hair where you can change the color, copy it and then delete the scripts in the copy.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Semirans said:

I forgot to ask something related.  Since I might, sometime in the future, go back to making clothing Is this a script they use to make the clothing trigger the alpha cuts or is it some new layer they can add to the product.  Does the feature have an official title so I can look up more about it? I know that a few of the blanks I have bought included an alpha layer (not the system thingy) but another texture that is labeled "alpha" but I never knew what it was for

 

I have a product, but I don't remember where I got it.  Maybe at the Maitreya store or maybe from the MP.  It has a script that can be added to modifiable clothing and a separate script that can be dropped into a prim that you can wear with clothing that is not modifiable.

Basically you create the alphas that you need, drop the script in and touch the item.  Then tell the menu to save the alpha cuts that it reads from the Maitreya body - or something to that effect (not inworld, so can't check on specifics).

It is basically doing what the 'save sticks' do, so these days I'm not sure you need the scripts.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, Semirans said:

Ok, so that raises another question, if the clothing has a script in it, is it still standard to remove scripts to reduce the load?  Do I need to worry about it since it seems you would need the script each time you load the clothing, not like hair where you can change the color, copy it and then delete the scripts in the copy.

You wouldn't want to remove the scripts - you need them so that they apply the alpha every time the clothing item goes on and removes the alpha every time the clothing item comes off.

[Sari6t]

In defense of using Alphas, it is impossible to know what an end user will do to their avatar, how it will move etc. Making a swim suit isn't as hard as a pair of jeans or shorts where there are a lot of moving parts and no amount of posing your rig model will be able to ensure a perfect fit for everyone. Playing CyberPunk 2077 as an example showed that even at the top things poke through when you don't want it too. Not long ago, an outfit HAD to have an alpha for your SL avatar to wear anything. Remember socks? 

Is it a crutch? Not at all. We want you too look your best as designers. Last thing we want is your butt poking out on the dance floor in the latex outfit you have on. With everything we can do in SL it's quite something we have what we do. No other AAA game gives you this ability, everything in those multi million dollar titles are for THAT rig no matter what you do to it. Here we can get a mesh body, one of many, all different body weights, add AO's not made for it, add deformers, have breasts the size of cars and somehow expect a t-shirt to fit like RL.  All at a cost of a cup of coffee.  

Alphas are great. Be happy you don't need socks anymore : )