Head deformity help?

[synicide]

So, I'm rambling around to here because I need some help. I'm using a Gianni body with a Lelutka Skyler head and I bought myself a body/shape combo to go with it. Now, normally, that's not a very difficult thing to put together my headaches with getting a Lelutka head set up aside because I've been doing this a while and my spouse has gone through the pain of putting together a body for himself more than once with different shapes and skins, so we're pretty experienced in that. 

However, that's not the case here. When I put on this new shape, my face deforms. I've gone through my worn tab, my appearance tab, checking and rechecking to make sure I'm not wearing the wrong alpha masks or anything else and my spouse got onto my account to give it a try since he's good at it. And the body? The body works fine. It's only the head that's deforming as can be seen here:
 

1 2 3

It doesn't matter if I'm using the Skyler head or not or changing the body shape I wear because the head deformation stays the same. The first two links are from the new head shape I want to use and the third link is with the Skyler head shape. 

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. 

[Panteleeva]

 it looks like that your shape isnt for 2.5 version head.Try DATED version of your head

[Chic Aeon]

32 minutes ago, synicide said:

So, I'm rambling around to here because I need some help. I'm using a Gianni body with a Lelutka Skyler head and I bought myself a body/shape combo to go with it. Now, normally, that's not a very difficult thing to put together my headaches with getting a Lelutka head set up aside because I've been doing this a while and my spouse has gone through the pain of putting together a body for himself more than once with different shapes and skins, so we're pretty experienced in that. 

However, that's not the case here. When I put on this new shape, my face deforms. I've gone through my worn tab, my appearance tab, checking and rechecking to make sure I'm not wearing the wrong alpha masks or anything else and my spouse got onto my account to give it a try since he's good at it. And the body? The body works fine. It's only the head that's deforming as can be seen here:
 

1 2 3

It doesn't matter if I'm using the Skyler head or not or changing the body shape I wear because the head deformation stays the same. The first two links are from the new head shape I want to use and the third link is with the Skyler head shape. 

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. 

It looks like the head shape you bought was NOT for Skyler or indeed even for Lelutka. Did you buy a head shape AND a body shape separately?  Did  the head shape say specifically it was for Skyler?  Each head maker has their own way of working and because of that the shapes need to be made just for that head. There are a few head makers that seem to use something closer to the default system avatar as the basis for shapes but they are not the norm.  Lelutka is particularly tricky I think.  I made and sold shapes in the past so have LOTS of practice but it took me fiddling for maybe eight hours in all before I was actually happy with the look of the free head they gave away not long ago.  

 

Typically people use the shape that comes with the head and make changes to that. You could certainly copy over all the BODY  numbers and replace those number in the head shape file if indeed you have one -- OR go out and look for a SKYLER shape that you like and then copy the body numbers over. Takes some time but doable.   The shape / body file couldn't possibly be correct for all heads as they are so very VERY different. 

 

[synicide]

12 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

It looks like the head shape you bought was NOT for Skyler or indeed even for Lelutka. Did you buy a head shape AND a body shape separately?  Did  the head shape say specifically it was for Skyler?  Each head maker has their own way of working and because of that the shapes need to be made just for that head. There are a few head makers that seem to use something closer to the default system avatar as the basis for shapes but they are not the norm.  Lelutka is particularly tricky I think.  I made and sold shapes in the past so have LOTS of practice but it took me fiddling for maybe eight hours in all before I was actually happy with the look of the free head they gave away not long ago.  

 

Typically people use the shape that comes with the head and make changes to that. You could certainly copy over all the BODY  numbers and replace those number in the head shape file if indeed you have one -- OR go out and look for a SKYLER shape that you like and then copy the body numbers over. Takes some time but doable.   The shape / body file couldn't possibly be correct for all heads as they are so very VERY different. 

 

The shape I bought was specifically designed for the Skyler Lelutka head with the Gianni body and came complete with a style card for how to make myself look like the avatar model from the sale item. I've been around long enough to know how to do a shape/head combo hunt, which is why it's very, very strange for me to find that this shape is deforming so badly. I've gone through and put in things such as the face base and brows, taken them off, applied the BOM, taken the BOM off, watched my husband do what he could for my body and so on and so forth. So the fact that neither he nor I could figure out why it's deforming is very, very confusing.

And the fact that it's deforming in such a specific fashion is very, very unusual. The spouse and I have both played with Lelutka heads - especially since he uses one himself with his Maitreya body - so we know, more or less, how to make them work so for us to not have a clue of how to make this one look proper is very strange for both of us. 

Also, body numbers? I have no idea what those are. I guess I'll be learning a new thing!

Edited February 3, 2021 by synicide

[Chic Aeon]

8 minutes ago, synicide said:

The shape I bought was specifically designed for the Skyler Lelutka head with the Gianni body and came complete with a style card for how to make myself look like the avatar model from the sale item. I've been around long enough to know how to do a shape/head combo hunt, which is why it's very, very strange for me to find that this shape is deforming so badly. I've gone through and put in things such as the face base and brows, taken them off, applied the BOM, taken the BOM off, watched my husband do what he could for my body and so on and so forth. So the fact that neither he nor I could figure out why it's deforming is very, very confusing.

And the fact that it's deforming in such a specific fashion is very, very unusual. The spouse and I have both played with Lelutka heads - especially since he uses one himself with his Maitreya body - so we know, more or less, how to make them work so for us to not have a clue of how to make this one look proper. 

Also, body numbers? I have no idea what those are. I guess I'll be learning a new thing!

Well then maybe the other reply was on target. If not, then I suggest you ask the person you bought your shape from.  Body numbers are just the numbers that go in the slots of the sliders when you are making shapes.  You just likely think of them as something else than I do :D.    But apparently that won't help your issue. 

People DO write with a similar "looking" issue and that answer was likely correct for THEM anyway, so hopefully it will do some good for someone else -- and hopefully someone else will have a correct answer for you. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Chic Aeon
spelling and adding info

[synicide]

6 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Well then maybe the other reply was on target. If not, then I suggest you ask the person you bought you shape from.  Body numbers are just the numbers that go in the slots of the sliders when you are making shapes.  You just likely think of them as something else than I do :D.    But apparently that won't help your issue. 

Well, I've honestly never even known that there's sliders for making shapes. I've been using premade ones as has the hubby since we started on SL, so there's probably a lot we don't know about. If you think that playing with these sliders might help, I'd love to learn about them. But otherwise, I'll just have to chalk this up to a loss of money and see about finding another, better shape. All I'd like is to get one that has Skyler and Gianni going together and being friends which I'd hoped this one would be, but alas.

Still, this is all useful information!

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, synicide said:

Well, I've honestly never even known that there's sliders for making shapes. I've been using premade ones as has the hubby since we started on SL, so there's probably a lot we don't know about. If you think that playing with these sliders might help, I'd love to learn about them. But otherwise, I'll just have to chalk this up to a loss of money and see about finding another, better shape. All I'd like is to get one that has Skyler and Gianni going together and being friends which I'd hoped this one would be, but alas.

Still, this is all useful information!

Did you try the other head in the folder as suggested or perhaps you haven't update your head to 2.5?  The rigging is very different on the update therefore if the shape is for one, it won't look.the same on the other.

[synicide]

2 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Did you try the other head in the folder as suggested or perhaps you haven't update your head to 2.5?  The rigging is very different on the update therefore if the shape is for one, it won't look.the same on the other.

I used the Skyler updating tool in the folder that came along with the head when I bought it earlier and it said it's up to date. Is there any way I can double check it to see if it's the 2.5 head? Because if it says it's up to date, then my assumption would be that it's 2.5? If not, then I'll have to find some way to fix that! 

[Marianne Little]

Billy Beaverhausen wrote about this in his blog. The difference from the 1.1 Lelutka Skyler and Skyler 2.5 with the same shape. https://billybeaverhausen.com/2020/11/13/lelutka-heads-2-5/

You can read his post and see if it is clearer now. (Image from his blogpost. Do you get the same deformed face?)

PS: You can send the shape creator a notecard with a link to this thread and inform him/her that the shape must be updated with a version 2.5 shape. Because this will happen with all who buy the shape.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Marianne Little
added picture credit plus the last part after PS

[synicide]

54 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Billy Beaverhausen wrote about this in his blog. The difference from the 1.1 Lelutka Skyler and Skyler 2.5 with the same shape. https://billybeaverhausen.com/2020/11/13/lelutka-heads-2-5/

You can read his post and see if it is clearer now. (Image from his blogpost. Do you get the same deformed face?)

PS: You can send the shape creator a notecard with a link to this thread and inform him/her that the shape must be updated with a version 2.5 shape. Because this will happen with all who buy the shape.

See, the odd thing about this is is that the store was apparently established in 2020. Did the 2.5 update come out last year? If so, I could see if I could do so, though they don't have an in-world store, alas.

I also looked and I do have Skyler 2.5, so that means I'm going to need to find a different head. Feck.

Thank you for this information, though! This helps a LOT.

[Rowan Amore]

23 minutes ago, synicide said:

See, the odd thing about this is is that the store was apparently established in 2020. Did the 2.5 update come out last year? If so, I could see if I could do so, though they don't have an in-world store, alas.

I also looked and I do have Skyler 2.5, so that means I'm going to need to find a different head. Feck.

Thank you for this information, though! This helps a LOT.

Check to see if the old head is in the folder

[Marianne Little]

28 minutes ago, synicide said:

See, the odd thing about this is is that the store was apparently established in 2020. Did the 2.5 update come out last year? If so, I could see if I could do so, though they don't have an in-world store, alas.

I also looked and I do have Skyler 2.5, so that means I'm going to need to find a different head. Feck.

Thank you for this information, though! This helps a LOT.

The update came in November 2020, for male heads. I am sure there are still sold tons of pre-update shapes for Lelutka Evo heads. I have a hope that the creator of the head you bought, can see reason and update the shapes he's selling. Just inform him about the new rigging of the bones in a notecard. You have the link to both the blogger, this thread and also Lelutkas own website. "We realize there have been many shapes made for the bound version of the heads and that some customers may not want to change, so we are offering both versions of the head (Bound and Boundless) for those heads released before Fleur. To get the Bound version of the head, please use the re-delivery terminal. Heads with the word “dated” are the Bound version. The other is the Boundless version". https://lelutkasl.com/faq/

Personally, I think it is a bad business practice if the shape creators rub it off with "Just wear the "dated" version, instead of updating their shapes. Suggest wearing a product that has "dated" in the name? Nu-uh.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Marianne Little
Typo

[Laurel Aurelia]

My experience with updating my own shape when the Boundless versions came out last year was that I basically had to make something almost entirely brand new to even be in the ball park of what I had before, and it still was not even close to my former look. Not bad just different. I think Lelutka realized that some shapes that were made prior would no longer be possible, and so they included the Dated version for people who were attached to their look. As far as I am aware, the dated version has all the other bells and whistles, but utilizes the older rigging. So if Synicide liked the look of the other shape, he would need the Dated version.  I do think shapes made for Lelutka prior the  2.5 release probably should be taken down from stores/mp, especially those that are no mod or offer no demo.  

[Chic Aeon]

To the OP: It doesn't seem like it is quite clear to you but in theory you can use the older head that is in your folder OR you can by a different head shape made specifically for 2.5. 

OR 

you can play around with the head shape sliders yourself and learn some thing.  I am amazed that there are folks who don't know how to do this as when "I" joined oh so long ago the Appearance  pane was the thing many of us played with at the beginning, getting our look together.  You would see folks in Appearance Pose all over and everywhere LOL.  I guess now with all the mesh heads and bodies it is a very different world.   

 

Anyway, it takes some time and trial and error to figure out what each of the sliders do and how to get the look you want. It is IMPORTANT to note that you can't get all heads to do all looks -- one reason why there are so many head.   I have an alt that I am trying to get "close to his old look" and the free Lelutka head just didn't work. Many other heads didn't either.

 

So the easiest thing to do if you want the 2.5 head is to get a new head shape FOR 2.5.   Meanwhile, here is a screenshot of what I meant by "slider numbers". You can type in numbers or use the slider bars to get the look.  Shape tweaking is a VERY GOOD skill to know in SL.

[synicide]

To be fair to everyone who's posted since I went to bed, while the better half and I have shopped around on parts, there's still a lot that has yet to be learned as far as SL goes on my behalf and I didn't know about a lot of this.

@Marianne LittleI'm pretty sure that if I sent a notecard and asked, the shape would be updated for 2.5, especially if the store was only established last year. There's a huge reason why I keep reminding my better half that trying demos first is important and this has been a reminder as to why I adore having the demos first, lmao, because of issues like this one. It's not a bad thing to go through this after I awaken and have had sleep because it's a learning experience, but at that point in time, I was sincerely frustrated by things.

@Chic AeonI will admit I've encountered that editing pane once or twice but I've never sat to faff around with it nor do I know how to get to it very easily except by sheer accident. But knowing that shape tweaking is a thing that can be of benefit is also highly useful. I'll have to sit and play with it at some point down the line - once I figure out the best way to get to it is. 

@Laurel AureliaTbh, I'm kind of in that same boat of feeling that if shapes offer no modification or no demo, especially no demo, it should be updated to come with one. Demos are glorious things and I swear by them constantly and have to work on restraining the husband from just outright buying things to go with a demo instead. We've had a few mistrials in the process of getting used to SL and I can definitely say that demos save lives.

But all of this aside, I looked in my folder for the Skyler head a few times and never spotted the old head in it. I don't know if this means the unpacker is updated to 2.5 or if it automatically updated when I used the updater. Either way, I see no problem in having a few different head and body shapes. This has all been very helpful information!

[HelenaNavy92]

I would suggeat the same as Laurel Aurelia - to try to use the dated version of the head. It must says Lelutka Skyler (dated). After the update my Erin head didn't work with my shape because obviously the shape had no update. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by HelenaNavy92

[Nalates Urriah]

Purchased shapes and body shapes will change the shape of your head. SL does NOT provide a way to wear a body shape without affecting the head/face shape.

Provided you have a full perm shape I recommend exporting it. Most viewers will do that. Top menu: Developer (Ctrl-Alt-Q to show/hide)->Avatar->Character Test->Appearance to XML

You can use any text editor to strip out the settings for the head or body. I have a file with just the settings for my head and another with just settings for my body. If I get a new body, I can wear the body's new shape and screw up my head, like in the image above. Then import my saved head shape and restore it. I use Firestorm for the imports. The Linden made SL Viewer does not import shapes or if it does I haven't figured out how.

The result is a combined shape, their body shape and my saved head shape.

The same works for a new head. I can use their head shape and import my saved body shape.

I think the format of the XML file is obvious. Basically one is deleting complete lines of text from the file. The settings names are in each line and match what you find in the appearance Editing Panel. Makes it easy to know which line to delete. Still it is ridiculously tedious, thus the JIRA feature request. The system is forgiving so mistakes are not a big deal. Importing a messed up file may make you look like a gargoyle but wear a different shape and you are fixed.