Extrude Ragu Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 There is an additional regression that OP doesn't mention Rezzed objects now have ~3 second delay before scripts start working. Was about 1/4 of a second before, it sounds like a small thing but it makes systems that rez objects such as pose systems etc very clunky, borks scripted weapons etc. There are multiple bug reports about it on the SL JIRA so it's not just me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Nightfire Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: There is an additional regression that OP doesn't mention Rezzed objects now have ~3 second delay before scripts start working. Was about 1/4 of a second before, it sounds like a small thing but it makes systems that rez objects such as pose systems etc very clunky, borks scripted weapons etc. There are multiple bug reports about it on the SL JIRA so it's not just me. That has nothing to do with the move to the cloud. That was explicit introduced behavior done back in November 2019. The developer that made that change has stated in the user groups that they would like to fix that at some point in the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said: The developer that made that change has stated in the user groups that they would like to fix that at some point in the future. One more item for the "things to do, urgent" list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Yatsenko Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 I thought the major reason for moving to the cloud was that LL's bandwidth from their servers wasn't that great. It also means LL doesn't have to maintain the server hardware, and AWS is a lot more resilient if something goes wrong (like a hard drive dies). Uplift was never going to be a cure all. But I think it helped with a few things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Wow.. So many speculative reasons. I thought one of the reasons LL decided to try "cloud hosting" was because the simulator hosts they were using were over ten years old and it was time to replace them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Ardy Lay said: Wow.. So many speculative reasons. I thought one of the reasons LL decided to try "cloud hosting" was because the simulator hosts they were using were over ten years old and it was time to replace them. All are valid possibilities too. Goes to show that things are not usually down to just one simple thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Ardy Lay said: Wow.. So many speculative reasons. Not really speculative but rather educated guesses. There are no plausible advantages to running a simulator that is supposed to be available for people all voer the world on a cloud server as such. There are however advantages to farming out the hosting (if LL hadn't already done that) and advantages to using a big hosting company with lots of resources and low prices. 15 hours ago, Ardy Lay said: I thought one of the reasons LL decided to try "cloud hosting" was because the simulator hosts they were using were over ten years old and it was time to replace them. The old servers weren't that old of course but yes, that may also be ane explanation not why but when they switched host. Edited January 31, 2021 by ChinRey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 On the speculation concerning better speed: I've had no issues with max bandwidth bumped up to 2000 since around mid November/December. Do with that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, ChinRey said: Not really speculative but rather educated guesses. There are no plausible advantages to running a simulator that is supposed to be available for people all voer the world on a cloud server as such. There are however advantages to farming out the hosting (if LL ahdn't already done that) and advantages to using a big hosting company with lots of resources and low prices. Having a sim cloud server close to where one lives is nice option for those spending $200 p/m. As an example if I was to be renting a whole region, I would very much like the server to be in Toronto or Montreal area where would have a 30-40 ms ping rather than the 100+ms I have for the servers down in southwestern USA. If I rent a region in Opensim I certainly look at that, how much more so if paying S/L prices for a region. That 70ms difference does have a noticeable effect on playability. Quote The old servers weren't that old of course but yes, that may also be ane explanation not why but when they switched host. Without checking my meeting logs from the TPV meetings, I am thinking it was mentioned the machines were upwards of 10 years old. That is pretty old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Having a sim cloud server close to where one lives is nice option for those spending $200 p/m. Yes but that would only apply to you, not to any visitors that happen to live elsewhere in RL. Cloud hosting is a benefit for the users of free standing sims that are only or mainly catering for people living within a limited area in the physical world, you are absolutely right there, but how many sims fit this description? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 hours ago, ChinRey said: Yes but that would only apply to you, not to any visitors that happen to live elsewhere in RL. Cloud hosting is a benefit for the users of free standing sims that are only or mainly catering for people living within a limited area in the physical world, you are absolutely right there, but how many sims fit this description? It could result in more regionally based communities if a sim server were to be based in Russia, Australia etc so that the people accessing S/L from those places have a ping of 50-100 ms on those regions instead of the 250ms they enjoy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: It could result in more regionally based communities if a sim server were to be based in Russia, Australia etc so that the people accessing S/L from those places have a ping of 50-100 ms on those regions instead of the 250ms they enjoy today. At one time LL had server farms in other countries. I found one article from 2009 regarding the one that used to be at D.C. https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/05/18/second-life-adds-east-coast-servers Ran across this from 2006 you might find interesting: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2006/06/06/second-life-and-the-scalability-of-online-games So LL has been down that road once already. In the end, it wasn't feasible so they ditched the ones outside of the continental US and planned the move to the cloud. Financially, it was a smart move on LL's part since the expense of having server farms all over the world would probably end up causing SL to go belly up. Then ping times won't matter because SL won't exist. Edited February 1, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, ChinRey said: Yes but that would only apply to you, not to any visitors that happen to live elsewhere in RL. Cloud hosting is a benefit for the users of free standing sims that are only or mainly catering for people living within a limited area in the physical world, you are absolutely right there, but how many sims fit this description? But to be fair, having all sims exist in one location (as they do now) is already the "worst case scenario" for anyone not in the US or even just on the wrong side of the US. Having the option to have sims physically located in Europe (for example) for a European sim owner, is not worse than what we have now. Somebody said earlier that "someone will always lose," which is true, but I think the actual sim owner should be responsible for that decision when possible. Edited January 31, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 It's been a few years since region sims were distributed to multiple datacenters, right? So I wonder if in the meantime they introduced any centralized services the sims need now and whether they'd bog down in round-trips. Probably they'd know about those now, encountering most such problems during Uplift. Doesn't mean they were fixed, though, while the sims were on their way. Sorry, just being paranoid. Still, it could be complicated explaining to Estate owners the performance trade-offs of hosting a region near most users but far from shared services, vs regions far from those users but near those services. Whole bunches of performance data needed. And then maybe some service architecture tweaking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: So LL has been down that road once already. In the end, it wasn't feasible so they ditched the ones outside of the continental US and planned the move to the cloud. Financially, it was a smart move on LL's part since the expense of having server farms all over the world would probably end up causing SL to go belly up. Then ping times won't matter because SL won't exist. OK I didn't know about them having other server locations before but I guess they did see the benefit previously but just wasn't worth the hardware expenditure to have multiple locations. With the cloud however the cost would be the same whether all the servers are in one location or spread out so the idea might be worth trying out again. 5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: It's been a few years since region sims were distributed to multiple datacenters, right? So I wonder if in the meantime they introduced any centralized services the sims need now and whether they'd bog down in round-trips. Probably they'd know about those now, encountering most such problems during Uplift. Doesn't mean they were fixed, though, while the sims were on their way. Sorry, just being paranoid. Still, it could be complicated explaining to Estate owners the performance trade-offs of hosting a region near most users but far from shared services, vs regions far from those users but near those services. Whole bunches of performance data needed. And then maybe some service architecture tweaking. Think it was mentioned about working on caches to help with some of that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 15 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: It's been a few years since region sims were distributed to multiple datacenters, right? So I wonder if in the meantime they introduced any centralized services the sims need now and whether they'd bog down in round-trips. Probably they'd know about those now, encountering most such problems during Uplift. Doesn't mean they were fixed, though, while the sims were on their way. Sorry, just being paranoid. Still, it could be complicated explaining to Estate owners the performance trade-offs of hosting a region near most users but far from shared services, vs regions far from those users but near those services. Whole bunches of performance data needed. And then maybe some service architecture tweaking. Communications delay between simulators and central services is one of the reasons the datacenters were consolidated in the first place. Optimized connections between LL's datacenters were attempted but it wasn't really working as hoped. When it came time to replace the simulator hosts with new hardware, it was all placed in a single location. The previous hosts shut down after the migration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 16 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: OK I didn't know about them having other server locations before but I guess they did see the benefit previously but just wasn't worth the hardware expenditure to have multiple locations. With the cloud however the cost would be the same whether all the servers are in one location or spread out so the idea might be worth trying out again. I don't think it will ever happen because: 7 hours ago, Ardy Lay said: Communications delay between simulators and central services is one of the reasons the datacenters were consolidated in the first place. Optimized connections between LL's datacenters were attempted but it wasn't really working as hoped. When it came time to replace the simulator hosts with new hardware, it was all placed in a single location. [...] Thanks Ardy. Less typing, less pain for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Starchild Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) SL so slow rezzing and laggy since the move to the "cloud" that is basically almost unusable? It took 10 minutes literally to log in and Rezz inworld almost everyday. It is not my computer as everybody seems to try and claim as no settings have been touched or changed in a year. All I know is I had great workings and movement before this cloud nonsence. I think The EEP stuff and the cloud have degraded SL to a crawl. If this is the case I think SL won't last another year if it is this unusable. Prokofy Neva is absolutely right! Edited February 2, 2021 by Ziggy Starsmith 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said: SL so slow rezzing and laggy since the move to the "cloud" that is basically almost unusable? It took 10 minutes literally to log in and Rezz inworld almost everyday. It is not my computer as everybody seems to try and claim as no settings have been touched or changed in a year. All I know is I had great workings and movement before this cloud nonsence. I think The EEP stuff and the cloud have degraded SL to a crawl. If this is the case I think SL won't last another year if it is this unusable. Prokofy Neva is absolutely right! This is not the experience for the vast majority of people. The forums would talk about nothing else if that was true. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: This is not the experience for the vast majority of people. The forums would talk about nothing else if that was true. From the reports we have had it appears to be very dependent on WHERE you are on the globe. While we were told that project Uplift would make things more even for people (as in "better" for those not in the US) because the servers would be spread around the world, that hasn't happened yet (this from a Linden last week but sorry I can't remember who) and the servers are all still in one place because they were in a hurry to get THAT part of the move completed. If that was incorrect info I suspect someone official will correct that comment. Other than the horrible weekend from hell last month when everyone I talked to in world WAS crashing continuously (me 7 or 8 times) I have been doing fairly well. But I am also pretty close to the servers. So hopefully if and when the original plan for Uplift is completed those having issues -- and there really have been quite a few here on the forums with similar stories -- will be able to enjoy SL again. Some of the folks that were complaining at the beginning of the year have stopped simply because they can't use SL now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Does anybody else think they're seeing Map tiles starting to come back? I think I'm now able to get one click back from the most zoomed-in detail level, although it still disappears at the next level back. Presumably it's a gradual, compute-intensive process to recover all those detail levels. Or maybe it's just my wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odaks Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: I think I'm now able to get one click back from the most zoomed-in detail level, I think this depends entirely on how much zoom each "click" produces, on your particular mouse/controller. I've been able to zoom out two clicks of my mouse wheel, getting a larger area each time, but the third click produces "Poof" - nothing! I guess that's the limit of detail available at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Yeah. I was using "click" more metaphorically, but I'm pretty sure I was wrong anyway. The Map API documentation has example URLs at different zoom levels, and it still barfs above level 1 (e.g., http://map.secondlife.com/map-2-1000-1000-objects.jpg), so never mind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odaks Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: but I'm pretty sure I was wrong anyway. Oh, how I wish you hadn't have been! We all need a dose of optimism, a glimpse of light at the end of this debilitated tunnel. Edited February 4, 2021 by Odaks spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Odaks said: a glimpse of light at the end of this debilitated tunnel WW2 blitz warden - "Put that bloody light out!" Edited February 4, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now