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24 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, no one here has argued, that I've seen, that all lives don't matter. I'm pretty sure that Luna thinks so. I know that I do.

Your use of that phrase is, as I'm sure you very well know, a dog whistle for denying that some demographics in our culture have historically, and in the present, been more subjected to systemic wrongs and violence, or that they should be remedied.

So, I'm delighted to hear that you do recognize, apparently, that you recognize the existence of bias and bigotry.

Although, if this is true, and you do see systemic bias at work against certain demographics, I'm left somewhat puzzled as to what your point was supposed to be.

I am wondering the exact same thing about you kiddo. My point was plain and simple. Luna here talking about equality while having a BLM logo. In case you must know, i am mixed race and i despise that organisation. It does absolutely nothing for the black community. In fact it damages it, badly! I am on the front row watching it all happen. BLM has put a bad taste in many people's mouths. Just watch recent history. I've tried to voice my opinion about that many times and pleaded with BLM members to not attack other people because then they do exactly what they claim to stop. And i'm not talking about it happening online like a silly keyboard warrior, i'm talking real life. Guess what happens when a mixed race (black dad, white mom) tried to reason with BLM members... Just have a guess before you read on... I get called a traitor and not "true black". So please spare me your stupid silly buzzwords you heard on the internet thinking it makes you look woke as heck. It makes you look uninformed about what is really going on.

 

As i said, your fancy buzzwords that you learned from the internet are happening, you have real royal idiots in the world. but it's not as bad as you so desperately want it to be. I don't know how old you are, and i'm really not interested, but i do strongly urge you to educate yourself a little better in the worlds history and hopefully come to the conclusion that we live in the best times since the beginning of human history.

 

Having said that, there is still a lot of work to be done. But fighting fire with fire, as is going on now every single day, is not the solution. That was my entire point about ALL lives matter, and trust me, an awful lot of BLM members and supporters have their heads so far up their own asses that they can't see that. they claim to be sick and tired of the bad situation. but who's creating it? Honestly, have the balls to unbiasedly do some serious research, and that includes actually talking to BLM members in real life. Then come back to me.

 

EDIT: It is not a dog whistle at all. You are making that assumption without seeing what i'm saying. Again, very telling. Its an annoyance i have to deal with often.

Edited by CaithLynnSayes
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8 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

So please spare me your stupid silly buzzwords you heard on the internet thinking it makes you look woke as heck. It makes you look uninformed about what is really going on.

lol. Ok then! So, rather than address my points, you're just going to shoot the messenger?

Your perspective as a person of mixed race is interesting and not unimportant, but it does not, in itself, certify you as the ultimate authority. There are, need I say, quite a few people of colour who would seem to disagree with you? Their perspectives are no less valid than yours -- so employing identity politics as a way of dismissing BLM may be a bit problematic.

It's possible to query the particular strategies employed by BLM without dismissing the statistically demonstrable fact that blacks suffer disproportionately at the hands of the legal and law enforcement systems. (I got that from the internet, btw -- it's full of interesting statistics and facts!) "All Lives Matter" isn't actually a targeted critique of BLM as an organization: it's an attempt to deny that there are specific causes, and hence specific solutions, to the problem of blacks being shot or beaten up by the police in disproportionately high numbers (and, far more likely to be given stiff jail sentences when they are brought before the law).

If someone came to your door to ask you for a donation to help cancer research, would you shout "No! ALL DISEASES MATTER!" . . . ?

Insisting that black lives matter is not, oddly enough, an assertion that other lives don't, or that black lives are "more important." It is 1) that blacks are killed or assaulted more often by law enforcement agents than most other ethnicities, and 2) an acknowledgement that violence against blacks is a particular and identifiably different problem than those causing other forms of violence, that requires particular solutions that are likewise going to be different than those we might apply to, say, domestic violence, or gang-related violence, or drug violence, etc., etc.

Because that's the way you solve problems: not by throwing generic and unspecific "solutions" at them, but by researching them so you understand their root causes, and applying solutions that address those. Sort of the same way that we don't apply the same treatments to cancer and, say, heart disease.

 

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20 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

lol. Ok then! So, rather than address my points, you're just going to shoot the messenger?

Your perspective as a person of mixed race is interesting and not unimportant, but it does not, in itself, certify you as the ultimate authority. There are, need I say, quite a few people of colour who would seem to disagree with you? Their perspectives are no less valid than yours -- so employing identity politics as a way of dismissing BLM may be a bit problematic.

It's possible to query the particular strategies employed by BLM without dismissing the statistically demonstrable fact that blacks suffer disproportionately at the hands of the legal and law enforcement systems. (I got that from the internet, btw -- it's full of interesting statistics and facts!) "All Lives Matter" isn't actually a targeted critique of BLM as an organization: it's an attempt to deny that there are specific causes, and hence specific solutions, to the problem of blacks being shot or beaten up by the police in disproportionately high numbers (and, far more likely to be given stiff jail sentences when they are brought before the law).

If someone came to your door to ask you for a donation to help cancer research, would you shout "No! ALL DISEASES MATTER!" . . . ?

Insisting that black lives matter is not, oddly enough, an assertion that other lives don't, or that black lives are "more important." It is 1) that blacks are killed or assaulted more often by law enforcement agents than most other ethnicities, and 2) an acknowledgement that violence against blacks is a particular and identifiably different problem than those causing other forms of violence, that requires particular solutions that are likewise going to be different than those we might apply to, say, domestic violence, or gang-related violence, or drug violence, etc., etc.

Because that's the way you solve problems: not by throwing generic and unspecific "solutions" at them, but by researching them so you understand their root causes, and applying solutions that address those. Sort of the same way that we don't apply the same treatments to cancer and, say, heart disease.

 

I did address your point. And i will do again, pay attention this time: the way these problems are dealt with, is the wrong way to do it. Everybody attacks everybody. This is not the solution to equality. BLM should have been called ALM from the start in my opinion, bringing forth their aim, being everyone has the same rights and matters equally. It's almost amusing but sad at the same time how you want to dance around that.

 

I would love to see some citations of your research and facts you claim to have seen "on the internet". And i mean actual verifiable facts. I'm not dismissing you have them, i just like to see them so i can see for myself what you are referring to.

 

This is a strawman argument if i ever saw one:

Quote

If someone came to your door to ask you for a donation to help cancer research, would you shout "No! ALL DISEASES MATTER!" . . . ?

 

I am not shooting (you) the messenger. I think i made that plain. I'm not sure how you take away from what i said that i'm attacking you. I'm absolutely not attacking you. I am urging you to educate you about the subject and all its avenues though. If you want to see that as an attack, then you choose it to be that way. I know in today's world everyone has to be handled with bubble wrap, jazzhands and all that other BS, I'm sorry, i'm not that way. I speak my mind. If that is offencive, you took it, it was never given.

Who's saying that my opinion in this matter is "the ultimate authority"? Where is that coming from, other then you insinuating that?

So to recap once more, There is racism in the world, but an organisation that is racist towards the race they claim is racist towards them is idiotic and counter productive.

Edited by CaithLynnSayes
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15 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

This is a strawman argument if i ever saw one

Please explain how?

Unless you have some other reasonable explanation for the fact that black men and women are far more likely to die at the hands of the police than whites, I think my analogy to racism is entirely valid. And if it is because of racism (which can be manifested in many different ways, as for instance lower socio-economic status, which can also make one a more likely victim of police violence), then the solution needs to address . . . racism.

17 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I would love to see some citations of your research and facts you claim to have seen "on the internet". And i mean actual verifiable facts. I'm not dismissing you have them, i just like to see them so i can see for myself what you are referring to.

Well, you have access to Google and the internet, I presume, so you should probably best do your own research. There are a great many highly reputable sites out there -- government agencies, scientific and health organizations, academic publications -- that repeat the same story with hard statistics. Here are two (and please note that neither of them is Vox or Buzzfeed):

"Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex" -- Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793/tab-figures-data

Includes statistics that show that blacks are about 2 1/2 times more likely to die at the hands of the police.

 

"Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement" -- U.S. National Institutes of Health's National Library of Medicine (NIH/NLM)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

"Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims."

 

There are literally hundreds of other reliable and accredited sources for this information.

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It's a lovely day, and nobody can take that away.  Though we surely see somebody on this thread wants to.

 

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2 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:
4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

It might have been considered 'bad' years ago, but not so now. Years ago violence against women was often considered the norm and women were often portrayed as deserving their punishment, and so perpetuating such a stereotype had negative effects for women. But now we see it's only fair that a female villain suffer consequences the same as a male villain does.

Another example...all the old movies almost always portrayed gay people as evil years ago and this influenced society's perception of gay people. Eventually gay people advocated for including positive role models of gay people in movies, and now it's no longer protested as much if we see an evil gay person in a movie.  A similar dynamic happened with the portrayal of Black people in movies.

In other words, norms change over time and it pays to be sensitive to dynamics in society that influences our feelings...as you are attempting to do with your question.

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Interesting statement. One question though. How triggered would you get if i agree with inclusiveness and say ALL lives matter?

Ain't nobody free till all are free...

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If you don't see the strawman in "If someone came to your door to ask you for a donation to help cancer research, would you shout "No! ALL DISEASES MATTER!" . . . ?" Then i urge you to look up what a strawman argument is. What you are doing here is distorting my initial point by, in this case, insinuating that i would not give to cancer charities because there are other diseases. If you honestly don't see that, then i can't but slightly wonder if you're just trolling or have been doing it for so long that you don't even see it anymore. And by reading "Well, you have access to Google and the internet, I presume". I think i can make my mind up about that. I hoped to have a mature interaction with you.

 

Anyway, once more let me really really really clarify my point to you, because so far it flew over your head like a 747 at cruising altitude with you on ground level. I am telling you that the way BLM and a lot of people in the black community in general act towards others is not helping their case. Lets not forget, i live in this community, i see it happen every single day.

 

Those numbers you show are at the surface very alarming, yes. It would seem that way. But the massive elephant in the room is never addressed. There are massive problems within the community itself. Again, i see it every day, but it then get excused with words like "lower socio-economic status". Please give me a break with that. It slightly angers me the fact you just rehash all the internet buzzwords without actually knowing what is going on in the community itself. Candace Owens put it very well once and look how she got attacked over it. Its pathetic.

 

The black community needs to stop blaming others for their problems and start acting like normal people. I honestly don't care if anyone here reading this flips their lid over this, i live it, i see it, i know what i'm talking about and i'm sorry Scylla, but people like you look silly in my eyes if you think you can rehash internet words and think those are factual things.

 

There is problems in the black community, big ones. This is by definition why there are more arrests and more killings. This is NOT the police fault in general. Yes, you have bad apples with the police, of course you do. I'm not naive to not know that. But you can not go "police bad", "racism", "black lives matter".

 

Here is what i see: the black community uses the word racism as a weapon. The number of times i've been called racist here in SL by back people is pathetic while they don't know i'm mixed race, it's not something i typically advertise because i don't want to use it as a hall-pass/excuse/weapon/etc. It is only logical that people will eventually become distant to blacks because the racist word is always being thrown out there as a weapon. This is an example that is being used over and over again (and there are many): A black person goes for a job interview unsuitable for the job, a white person goes for the same interview and is qualified and gets hired. The black person screams racism. How is this helping equality?

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I had a different reply but I later decided it wasn't a productive way of addressing the issue.

Incidentally, looking at recently-added bug reports on the JIRA can reveal other interesting strategies for addressing issues.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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