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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, I think about this a lot -- how did it get so bad, and what can we do about it. It is a multi-faceted problem and you've pointed to some aspects. 

Globalization is a factor, obviously, for how "it got so bad" here America.  Globalization is here to stay I'd gather.  However, I do remember one of my first bf's parents telling me to "buy America".  They bought nothing but cars made in America, appliances made in America and on and on.  I thought they were being over-patriotic because I could get a cheaper car made elsewhere.  American cars were expensive...however, they truly lasted longer and people could maintain their own cars with just a high school Auto Shop education.  In the end, all these cheap cars have nearly killed the planet...but that's another topic.  

But, Globalization and super low wage workers have brought the stock market to heights it's never seen before due to the far larger profits companies can make with low wage workers not to mention machines replacing people altogether.  Ultimately, all roads lead to greed.  

India's nominal per capita income was US$1,670 per year in 2016, ranked at 112th out of 164.

The minimum wage in China is set locally; ranges from RMB1,120 ($161.07) per month, or RMB10.60 ($1.52) per hour in Liaoning; to RMB2,420 ($348.02) per month, or RMB21.00 ($3.02) per hour in Shanghai. 55,000 Comorian francs ($129) per month.

Edited by FairreLilette
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^^^This^^^ is what scares me.  The belief that people are no longer allowed to have their own opinions, their own thoughts and have to fall in line with one narrative, one ideology.   Newsflash,

When did have a political opinion become "hate speech"?

What exactly do you expect them to do?  As with most things that are against the ToS, they will act appropriately when and if it is brought to their attention.  They have given us, the residents, the

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16 hours ago, Audiobuff007 said:
17 hours ago, TDD123 said:

No, I'm stating that the government takes some of our money of which we do not have a say how it is spent.

Seeing the tax-breaks multicorps are getting into the billions that could save whole countries, you still want to make me believe that a part of my money is ONLY being wasted on deadbeats ? And only when Democrats are in power ?

Really ... ? That' s the best you got ?

 

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Ok great, you've recognized that the government takes part of your income. Why are you concerned about what other's, businesses and corporations make? Have you bettered yourself to your maximum potential? Are you indicating you have no way possible to make a better life for yourself?

I think you're missing the point here. Repeatedly throughout this thread you've been blaming either welfare or other as yet unnamed and unnecessary programs for the ills of society where people are 'riding the system', pointing to them as the major players in what's wrong with society. In reality, it's the huge corporations using the rest of us, paying (in many cases) slave wages so that they can keep their CEO's and shareholders rich.

If you're frustrated and want to take it out on someone why don't you 'punch up' instead of 'punching down'?  Otherwise, you're just being a stooge for the corporations, stirring unrest between the classes so we can fight each other instead of fighting what's really causing the problems.

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6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Globalization is a factor, obviously, for how "it got so bad" here America.  Globalization is here to stay I'd gather.  However, I do remember one of my first bf's parents telling me to "buy America".  They bought nothing but cars made in America, appliances made in America and on and on.  I thought they were being over-patriotic because I could get a cheaper car made elsewhere.  American cars were expensive...however, they truly lasted longer and people could maintain their own cars with just a high school Auto Shop education.  In the end, all these cheap cars have nearly killed the planet...but that's another topic.  

But, Globalization and super low wage workers have brought the stock market to heights it's never seen before due to the far larger profits companies can make with low wage workers not to mention machines replacing people altogether.

India's nominal per capita income was US$1,670 per year in 2016, ranked at 112th out of 164.

The minimum wage in China is set locally; ranges from RMB1,120 ($161.07) per month, or RMB10.60 ($1.52) per hour in Liaoning; to RMB2,420 ($348.02) per month, or RMB21.00 ($3.02) per hour in Shanghai. 55,000 Comorian francs ($129) per month.

Indeed, they will squeeze as much as they can from us. They have no loyalty to the US.

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34 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

 Move on, don't add more fuel to the fire and build it all up again

 

Sure. Collectively accepting the result of the election and honouring Joe Biden as the 46th POTUS is a good firm step in that direction. 

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20 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:
On 1/15/2021 at 10:07 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Ok this is just flat out disgusting -- demonizing the disadvantaged in society like this.  I've had experience in Social Work and it is harder than hell to get aid in the first place, and if anybody manages to get aid it is so low they can barely survive.

Sure, there are those who manage to cheat the system, but to paint all people who need help as liars and cheats is beyond the pale.

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I think he is meaning that the social welfare programs are the problem and I agree with that as too often and I know this from social worker friends, they try hard to keep a decent case load so they don't work themselves out of a job. There is also the problem that the programs have a budget they need to spend each fiscal year or they will be reduced the next. So the social workers don't try to get people off the system and into a self sustaining job or career but keep them on the system. I know plenty of people on the system who are lifers and will never get off of it as there is no motivation to from the Welfare programs to do so. They simply go through the motions.

If you've got social worker friends like that you need to get rid of them!

All my Social Worker friends would never cheat society just to keep their job -- they are much more ethical than that and their primary motive is to help people function in society as best they can, and often at very low pay.

Besides, most Social Worker's don't have the power to decide who gets welfare. I remember working with autistic people, and I simply did my job to help them and I had no say as to whether they 'deserved' help -- the decision was made long before they got to me. Likewise with my friends who work with the homeless, with vets, with the mentally ill, with the sexually abused who endure PTSD issues.  Often these cases are decided by multiple people, or adjudicated in court and a judge decides if they do indeed 'deserve' help. The state actually hires its own lawyers in an attempt to find fault with claims -- they don't want to spend money from their already stretched budget.

If you want to blame something then blame a society that does not want to spend enough money to train those having trouble functioning in society, nor do they want to take the time and expense to modify working environments which would make it easier for disabled people to function well.

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57 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

He called for what many in this thread have stated (and been flayed for in some instances). Move on, don't add more fuel to the fire and build it all up again stronger as doing so will bring far more resolution and unity that a blame game etc could.

injjwj-768x432-768x432.jpg

 

Huh. Imagine that. It let me post a completely blank post.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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36 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

... he spoke well as whilst he called for people to be held accountable, his speech focused more on coming together and moving forward peacefully and learning from it. No talk of drastic retribution against certain people or banning of these persons or those companies.

He called for what many in this thread have stated (and been flayed for in some instances). Move on, don't add more fuel to the fire and build it all up again stronger as doing so will bring far more resolution and unity that a blame game etc could.

[emphasis mine]

image.png.9e6f0a1d2469fd151d0e4115c2f04a28.png

That's not about "retribution" it's about survival of democracy. There's almost a third of the country who still believes the lies Trump tells about the election being "stolen." Some post to this thread. Healing and moving on require that nearly all of those people come to understand how horribly they've been taken-in by the lies. It's not necessary that they show remorse, nor become the hopeless, abusive drunks Arnold remembers of his father's generation. But they must not remain promoters and followers of the lies. Not if the democracy is to ever "move on" from this.

How do we get past the lies? I appreciate as never before why it's called "Truth and Reconciliation." Unfortunately, a Senate impeachment trial cannot be that, because many of the liars will use it to repeat all the lies, in defense of the deposed liar-in-chief.

It's asking an awful lot of Biden to expect him to create such a healing environment that the liars somehow see the light of reason when they are this far gone. It's gonna take more than tolerance and understanding.

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25 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

 

Sure. Collectively accepting the result of the election and honouring Joe Biden as the 45th POTUS is a good firm step in that direction. 

Excuse me. I need to fix this for me because I will NEVER acknowledge or accept there was any Oval Office occupant in the US from January 20, 2016 through January 20, 2020.

I don't recommend any other country trying the same "social experiment". 💣

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1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

Move on, don't add more fuel to the fire and build it all up again stronger as doing so will bring far more resolution and unity that a blame game etc could.

If he is not held accountable then the next fascist or authoritarian to come along will have a much greater chance in succeeding.

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3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's not about "retribution" it's about survival of democracy. There's almost a third of the country who still believes the lies Trump tells about the election being "stolen." Some post to this thread. Healing and moving on require that nearly all of those people come to understand how horribly they've been taken-in by the lies. It's not necessary that they show remorse, nor become the hopeless, abusive drunks Arnold remembers of his father's generation. But they must not remain promoters and followers of the lies. Not if the democracy is to ever "move on" from this.

I can't double like your post so I'll just have to requote it...

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If he is not held accountable then the next fascist or authoritarian to come along will have a much greater chance in succeeding.

I look at it this way, they are going to do what they are going to do.  The thing is I don't want to watch it.  

I have enough on my over-flowing "emotional plate" with coronavirus and the new strain that my nerves need to be quiet for awhile, not to mention what happens happens and I will hear the outcome but I'm not going to get my emotions all tangled up in Trump-capades.   I am still angry at my Congress, however.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Go ahead and laugh at a serious post. It just shows you for the kind of person you really are.

Silly, that was a genuine laugh!   Totally agree with you...nobody has said it better. That guy was never my president!   And, let me add, I may have Trump derangement syndrome but that sure as hell doesn't mean Trumpie was not an idiot!

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11 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Go ahead and laugh at a serious post. It just shows you for the kind of person you really are.

I understand you denying Trump your reality, but general reality is that Joe Biden remains the 46th. I' m that kind of person.

( I agree Trump should never have been president at all. )

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6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If he is not held accountable then the next fascist or authoritarian to come along will have a much greater chance in succeeding.

I look at it this way, they are going to do what they are going to do.  The thing is I don't want to watch it.  

I have enough on my over-flowing "emotional plate" with coronavirus and the new strain that my nerves need to be quiet for awhile, not to mention what happens happens and I will hear the outcome but I'm not going to get my emotions all tangled up in Trump-capades.   I am still angry at my Congress, however. 

Yes I get it, one can only take so much!  I don't know how much of it I'll watch, and most likely there's not much I can do about it personally.

But I don't agree with your minimizing of the issue (saw you do that in another post, saying we should be focusing on Covid instead).

The reason...It's really important that we don't have a demagogue ruling the US, as how an authoritarian in the future would deal with a plague could very well make this present Covid seem like a cakewalk. And holding Trump accountable will make it less likely that a fascist rules the US in the future.

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7 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I understand you denying Trump your reality, but general reality is that Joe Biden remains the 46th. I' m that kind of person.

( I agree Trump should never have been president at all. )

That 'not our president' or 'not my president' became popular in California towards Trump because when Obama was elected president, Texas declared Obama was not their president.

It's an American thing.  If you are not American, you may not understand it.  Plus, as many have said, it's pretty much over.  Biden and Harris will be on shortly although it feels like forever waiting these last few months/weeks and now days. 

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19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Silly, that was a genuine laugh!   Totally agree with you...nobody has said it better. That guy was never my president!   And, let me add, I may have Trump derangement syndrome but that sure as hell doesn't mean Trumpie was not an idiot!

That was a serious post and you laughed at it and me. You made light of something I find deadly serious and see nothing wrong with doing so. That is all that needs to be said.

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16 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I understand you denying Trump your reality, but general reality is that Joe Biden remains the 46th. I' m that kind of person.

( I agree Trump should never have been president at all. )

Yeah I know. It's just me and I will always refuse to acknowledge. That doesn't mean I won't go with the flow on numbers. I just haven't come up with a plausible explanation for how this country managed to survive those 4 years without being invaded and/or conquered by Putin. Note I said Putin, not Russia.

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14 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That 'not our president' or 'not my president' became popular in California towards Trump because when Obama was elected president, Texas declared Obama was not their president.

It's an American thing.  If you are not American, you may not understand it.  Plus, as many have said, it's pretty much over.  Biden and Harris will be on shortly although it feels like forever waiting these last few months/weeks and now days. 

My views and beliefs have nothing to do with California or Obama and everything to do with the 💩.

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3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:
26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Silly, that was a genuine laugh!   Totally agree with you...nobody has said it better. That guy was never my president!   And, let me add, I may have Trump derangement syndrome but that sure as hell doesn't mean Trumpie was not an idiot!

That was a serious post and you laughed at it and me. You made light of something I find deadly serious and see nothing wrong with doing so. That is all that needs to be said.

I thought you were making a joke, as it defies reality to insist a president did not exist who, unfortunately did.  Yet, yes, that's how we who despise the man actually feel.  It had nothing to do with laughing at you and everything to do with laughing with you.

Bu yes, best we say no more.

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Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

 I just haven't come up with a plausible explanation for how this country managed to survive those 4 years without being invaded and/or conquered by Putin.

He sure as hell, by means of the very man you loath, had a grasp on affairs that is hopefully gone now and rid off when the impeachment has been completed.

I changed my laugh into a like out of respect to you. I hope you grant Luna the same courtesy by not holding the laughter on your post, of which I'm convinced was not malicious towards you, against her.

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I thought you were making a joke, as it defies reality to insist a president did not exist who, unfortunately did.  Yet, yes, that's how we who despise the man actually feel.  It had nothing to do with laughing at you and everything to do with laughing with you.

Bu yes, best we say no more.

Yes, this seems a bit over-blown.

However, it is a real thing that happened in California with people carrying signs a long, long time ago that Trump "is not our president".  It happened because of Texas saying Obama was not our president and even further Texas wanted to become it's own country because of Obama being elected president.

I was just expanding on this saying, not saying that's why Silent may have said it.  I already knew she has her own reasons.  

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I thought you were making a joke, as it defies reality to insist a president did not exist who, unfortunately did.  Yet, yes, that's how we who despise the man actually feel.  It had nothing to do with laughing at you and everything to do with laughing with you.

Bu yes, best we say no more.

You seem to not understand that I was NOT LAUGHING to begin with. If I were, I would have given some indication that I was. That IS what emoticons are for and I do use them so that there is no doubt. If a bomb indicates laughter to you I suggest you get some professional help.

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