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Uplift - Still a good idea in 2021?


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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm not sure why you are upset, Maryanne, it's not your country.  Just hope for peace for us and leave it alone.
I'm upset, it's my country.
>> Plus, you can turn off the TV in your home.  

Which is my whole point really - mainstream/all media and the gullible fools who consume it.
I don't own a TV and never will.

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Yeah, but not the one you mean. Tell ya what: hosted on AWS or not, when SL becomes the next unmoderated platform for planning the a murderous coup against American democracy, PULL THE EFFING PLUG NOW

Uplift as I understand it is SecondLife's effort to move its servers onto Amazon Web Services (AWS) in the cloud. It was intended to reduce operating costs. We're watching right now as technology

What do you mean 'ourselves'? You never had control over SL. You're only using it as a commodity. You're not entitled (that's a socialist thing) to a Parler or Twitter or Second Life account. It'

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38 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Which is my whole point really - mainstream/all media and the gullible fools who consume it.
I don't own a TV and never will.

I don't understand your reply.  I don't own a TV either.  All I really wanted to say was turn it off as there is nothing people in other countries can do in the first place.

I am upset, I live here and I didn't understand why you were upset when you don't live here?  

The media moguls own a vast portion of the world.   I have ranted here about this media circus too and just recently in fact as I feel it's taking away a possibility to hear news about coronavirus, how other states are doing, the state of the economy, all kinds of things.  But, the media is doing this trump, trump, trump, trump, trump thing.  There is nothing one can do but tune it out.  But, ultimately, those in other countries cannot help us here.  

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To me, the people arguing the politics and/or thinking "we" will never behave like "those people" are sort of missing what's actually a good point.

Per LL's rules, we can't back up any of our inventory locally (barring some personal creations, but that doesn't really apply). Everything's exclusively hosted on the servers. Forget politics, there could be a hundred reasons why the AWS would suddenly become inaccessible to us- change of their TOS, change of their policies, maybe the company goes under, maybe they get bought out, whatever. Some are less likely than others, but there's still a lot that can happen.

We can only hope there's some other physical backups somewhere of all this data, otherwise SL is actually in a very precarious place.

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3 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

To me, the people arguing the politics and/or thinking "we" will never behave like "those people" are sort of missing what's actually a good point.

Per LL's rules, we can't back up any of our inventory locally (barring some personal creations, but that doesn't really apply). Everything's exclusively hosted on the servers. Forget politics, there could be a hundred reasons why the AWS would suddenly become inaccessible to us- change of their TOS, change of their policies, maybe the company goes under, maybe they get bought out, whatever. Some are less likely than others, but there's still a lot that can happen.

We can only hope there's some other physical backups somewhere of all this data, otherwise SL is actually in a very precarious place.

Yes, absolutely. But Second Life as content hosting unit always was in a precarious place. That´s the default state. Regardless company owned servers or Amazon owned servers. The Amazon move only added one more risk factor.

Question is if the added risk is worth the benefits, and we only can speculate on that - for now.

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2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Yes, absolutely. But Second Life as content hosting unit always was in a precarious place. That´s the default state. Regardless company owned servers or Amazon owned servers.

I'm not so sure of this. Previously, supposedly, LL maintained all the hardware and server boxes themselves (which makes backups that much easier). That was the justification for the insane costs of land in SL.

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1 hour ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

couple years back,  they were over 300 petabytes of data used in the asset nodes alone.   but they have backups :)  see them pull sims back from non existance after over a year I think it was.  so I'd not worry about data loss.

Touching only on the technical point it is likely those backups are on AWS too now. Data storage and ever increasing backup size is a constant problem for any big system. 

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21 hours ago, TDD123 said:

That would only be the case if SL turns into an obnoxious extreme right presentation like Parler does, which seems, thankfully, very unlike to me.

Naw, you only need to make them aware of the child avatar ***** and they could close shop immediately. It is a very slippery slope to support these billionaires by handing them your business. 

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8 minutes ago, Gavin Hird said:

Naw, you only need to make them aware of the child avatar *****

I think SL is already 'tarnished' with that public opinion and public opinion moved on. SL survived nonetheless.

I only have regions that forbid child avatars entirely. That's all I have to say about the matter entirely.

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...I got a really cool cup for Christmas and an industrial. (ear piercing, it's a bar that goes through the top of the ear and it does hurt like a b-word for about a week, then after that anytime it's roughly nudged.)

You'd think a cup would suck, right? nah man.  IT'S THE COOLEST LOOKING THING EVER!  Like.. i can post a picture if anyone wants to see it, just qoute me.

 

Ignore this.. totes didn't read the title right and it's 4am.

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1 minute ago, TDD123 said:

I think SL is already 'tarnished' with that public opinion and public opinion moved on. SL survived nonetheless.

I have regions that forbid child avatars entirely. That's all I have to say about the matter entirely.

The question is not how the public in general reacts to it, the question is how corporate Amazon views it in terms of potential media and market valuation backlash. 

Seriously, I don't think the public would be particularly comfortable with this issue. The fact is more that SL is completely obscured from 99.9999% of the population so nobody knows.

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9 minutes ago, Gavin Hird said:

The question is not how the public in general reacts to it, the question is how corporate Amazon views it in terms of potential media and market valuation backlash.

Of course that has always been the case since the anouncement of the move to AWS. What kind of scandal would be required though ? SL is beyond that stage in the public eye.

9 minutes ago, Gavin Hird said:

The fact is more that SL is completely obscured from 99.9999% of the population so nobody knows.

Do you mean public presentation or avatar conduct ? 99.9999 % of the population has the latter in their own hands.

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6 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

If one country demands the removal you can guarantee that they will do it across all regions.

Afaik my country will hold ME responsible for such activities in SL. In my regions where I reside.

It should and will hold LL responsible if it is forcefed upon me.

 

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16 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

:EDIT:

This is straight from AWS Acceptable Use Policy

 

Afaik these policies relate to real world activities with real world people. I think American law differentiates between real world and virtual, but not sure.

They might fall back on this though should they want to get rid of 'us'. But again .. that's always been a risk for whatever reason. I think the move is more technical than moral. The system doesn't give a crap about what data we shove in either direction or in what form and the service contract not that much either.

I mean it's not that SL is going to be all over Amazon.com and in everyone's face.

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A couple years ago I noticed the shared-hosting provider for my websites had cranked up their prices and became peculiarly lax in their customer service. They had been bought out by a big company. I looked round for other providers and, lo and behold, many of them were also owned by this company. I finally settled on one that seemed safe-ish, but I don't hold out much hope in the long run.

Unless antitrust laws in affected countries are given more teeth, I fear it's All Hail our Bigtech Overlords for us simple peasant smallish companies. 😔

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13 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Afaik these policies relate to real world activities with real world people. I think American law differentiates between real world and virtual, but not sure.

Does the American Law differentiate between SL and RL with regards to in world banks? Gambling? No. They were banned in sl due to RL policies restricting online presence. There are no differences. Law is Law and whether it is mock images or rl images they still constitute Child Pornography and beast sex.

It also does no matter whether it is American Law or for instance Australia Law. This is something that Americans never understand just ask Apple, Google, Steam, Epic, EA etc who have been find 100's millions for not following other countries laws. If the service has a physical presence in Australia or EU of which AWS does, and if they utilise Australian or EU transactions they are bound to abide by that countries law as well.

In your point whether policies relate to rl or graphical imagery (of which SL would be considered) Australia recently banned all importing of Hentai due to its child (lolli) pornographic nature.

Quote

They might fall back on this though should they want to get rid of 'us'. But again .. that's always been a risk for whatever reason. I think the move is more technical than moral. The system doesn't give a crap about what data we shove in either direction or in what form and the service conttract not that much either.

No this has never been a risk as LL were in control of their own servers and subject to their own TOU. Amazons TOU now is applied on top of Second Life's. LL are bound to ensure that no content is shown per Amazons TOU.

:EDIT:

Amazon also quite clearly clear up any disparity in their meaning

ou may not use, or encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to use, the Services or AWS Site for ... to transmit, store, display, distribute or otherwise make available content that is illegal, harmful, fraudulent, infringing or offensive

Edited by Drayke Newall
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1 minute ago, TDD123 said:

that's always been a risk for whatever reason

Exactly. Sure, now SL is on AWS, but it's been utterly dependent on S3 for a long time, and besides the Bezos empire, they depend on a CDN (Akamai still, AFAIK), various network services providers, any of whom could pull the plug for any reason* at any time.

If anything, moving from those clunky old boxes and into the cloud reduces vulnerability by making it much more practical to shop for alternatives, compared to tracking down a new co-lo facility, lease and install a bunch of new hardware, and sew back together all the connections and interdependencies they've just spent a year rediscovering.

_____________
*This fixation with child avatars, enough already. It's creepy.

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9 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Amazons TOU now is applied on top of Second Life's. LL are bound to ensure that no content is shown per Amazons TOU.

If LL's legal representation agrees with this, I'll agree with you.

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

So..positive review then?

Never been, but one is obvious from the description in world on their land info which I searched inworld and the other has been mentioned in another VW forum before.

Even a search on marketplace reveals it all.

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Like someone said, it is pretty unlikely that SL will be perceived the way Parler is. And if it somehow did, AWS or not won't matter, it can be shut down or forced to change in other ways

If the perception that big tech are having too much power worries you, try thinking about it this way - as much as they seem like a monolithic entity, they're not, they're a collection of many people's interests whose actions and power are direct consequences, and reflections of the overall sociocultural state of society and its demands. If it's not them, it would be some other entities who fill the void, they're just entities supplying or executing demands

Of course that's not an entirely sound argument and competitions would give choice, which is a good thing, but I find that thinking about it that way is healthier because it changes how we see it in a more reasonable and healthy way c=

 

Edited by lucagrabacr
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3 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Afaik my country will hold ME responsible for such activities in SL. In my regions where I reside.

It should and will hold LL responsible if it is forcefed upon me.

 

Your country will hold you responsible for your actions sitting behind your computer.

LL can be held responsible for facilitating your actions and not blocking them, and that can be extended to AWS. 

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3 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Afaik these policies relate to real world activities with real world people. I think American law differentiates between real world and virtual, but not sure.

As long as the virtual reality is operated by live humans sitting behind their screens with a virtual representation of themselves it would be concidered a real world activity, for which your local police could arrest you if you broke local law. 

SL is not automata or a programmed game.

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4 hours ago, Mortified Wanderer said:

IT'S THE COOLEST LOOKING THING EVER!

   I mean, now I'm curious.

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4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

*This fixation with child avatars, enough already. It's creepy.

It can be.  Just recently I saw a child avatar with a leash on her in photos for a shape.  Parts of SL are very creeeeeeeeepy, especially the beaten child that is appearing a lot of late in WHAT CUSTOMERS ARE BUYING NOW.  I went looking for a skin recently and saw beaten child tattoo faces and a skin in a Gacha machine in that skin store.  I decided not to buy any skins from that store and left.    

But, I see ads of full frontal nudity on MP under General and no one complains nor does anything.  Piercings, tattoos, all kinds of things show full frontal nudity and are NOT listed under Adult.  

This place could use some cleaning up.  

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