Jump to content

What is Your Prediction for SL in 2021?


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I didn't intend to say LL shouldn't update SL at all but the updates should be more focused on keeping the current users happy than try to chase new ones.

I knew what you meant and still disagree. Both can be done simultaneously without negative effect. Any update that an existing user would like would be the same for a new user and vice versa. They are one in the same. You see 'x' feature as keeping the current users happy, I see it as both that and an improvement to new user retention. What kind of update do you honestly think will loose existing users in droves? I cant think of any.

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

I dont' think it'll bring many new users. Screen size alone is a huge limiting factor.

Lets hypothetically remove the debate about user generated stuff, bandwidth and impact that will have on the mobile phone for now. Why can Avakin allow all its functionality on a mobile small screen just fine. Yes I know its apples and oranges but the basic functionality of editing outfit, changing avatar shape and look, chatting and walking/teleporting around is in that game why would it be so hard for SL? No one is suggesting everything the PC viewer has has to be in the mobile client just simple mechanics for out and about and being bored.

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Except for the mesh head part, that would be a downgrade, not and upgrade. There's certainly room for improvement of the system head but even so, set those sliders right, be a little bit careful when you choose skin and it still looks significantly better than any current mesh head.

I disagree. The default head has major issues with its form. Its nose is to flat and deformities along the side of the nose cant be fixed. Its overall shape sliders are very limited due to the mesh and bad positioning mechanics. Ears are flat and badly textured offering no definition or customisation beyond pixie ears and human (i.e. no long elf ear options or removal without holes on the side of your head if you want to be a neko IIRC). The need of a separate editable file for brows etc is redundant and needs to be removed. The head needs to look realistic and I am afraid it is far from in its current state.

Whilst you may like it, the very fact that one of the major gripes for new users is the need to spend to much money on a head and body to look good is evidence enough that the body AND head both need major overhauls.

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

An avatar upgrade is not going to happen though, if only because it would kill the mesh body market.

It will not kill the mesh body/head market. This is used as an excuse to many times and is simply wrong. Why do people buy Catwa heads over LeLutka heads or vice versa? Both are mesh heads, both around the same price. Sure both cost money and the default one would be free however, limitations placed on the default avatar compensate for this as does the fact that the head shape will be different to others on the market. Sliders only go so far which is why you have different Catwa head shapes.

People buy a certain mesh head 'cause they like the look and has the HUD allowing for more customisation than just a skin (for example expressions, eye textures, separate eyebrow or lipstick, eyeshadow, eyeliner options). All those things need to be bought separate to the default mesh head and therefore will still mean people would buy an all-in-one package over the default linden head. The difference is that now the default head is updated to keep new users retained but allow them a choice in updating to an all-in-one head eventually for more customisation or risk having to buy a new skin, lipstick, eye textures, brow textures and facial expression AO.

For the body take the Jake body. You get a the mesh body, a skin, oil/gloss effect, material layer (BoM has no materials therefore default body will have no material feature), clothing layer system, nail RGB customisation, hand animations, skin pore effect, tattoo memory system and on off, alpha system, alpha memory system, HUD, updates quicker than LL could provide, etc. Some mesh bodies even provide G and A toggles or nipple toggles or a more slim, bulky, muscly etc look.

Compare that to an updated SL mesh body. You would get a reasonably realistic mesh body with a very, very basic skin and one specific shape that is somewhat editable (i.e. will be generally default athletic look). This means a person would have to buy a skin, nails texture, eyes, eyebrow, lipstick, other makeup, hand animations, create their own alpha cuts and manage them (not auto), skin oil effect, etc as well as have no togglable G or A rating, nipples, nails, feet, hands etc. All of that would amount to about if not more than the cost of a creator head.

Hell, LL could even just offer the default current body for new users and make the new mesh body locked behind a premium subscription. They could even showcase the various creator bodies alongside SL's default body as part of the main new user selection process. The sky is the limit in how it can run seamlessly without impacting on other bodies, but the argument of "it will destroy the creator made mesh bodies" is a lie and an argument that just doesn't hold water.

Put it this way, clothing and skin makers have more say on what body people buy or don't buy than the body maker themselves. If the majority stop supporting one (for example TMP) the body fails and is then obsolete. This also means that any new body has a hard time getting established due to there being no clothes for it. Case and point the thread someone made about that new female body. Everyone said unless it has clothing made for it it will fail or they wont buy it.

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

No, no, no, no, NO!!!!

There is a reason why no game/vw engine has anything like that and a good reason too. Upgrade the inworld building tools, yes, but not with polylist mesh or for CSG based solution.

Doesn't change the fact that it needs an update. It is a key feature for retention of users that do not have the capability of using a 3D software package outside of SL (due to cost or complexity of use) and was also THE main draw card for second life use. How can it be 'your world, your imagination' if you cant build in that world to the comparative optimised standard of 3rd party software.

I am not sure what you were thinking I meant when I say update the inworld creation. There would be no risk in providing simple Boolean functions such as add and subtract etc, to make one mesh object whereby it deletes unseen polygons within the mesh. This would be an improvement over the current prim system where linking keeps those polygons showing and rendering, impacting on performance. Also they can remove the amount of polygons the standard cube has at a 64x64 size. It requires 2 polygons on each face not hundreds as it expands unless a boolean command has been made on it of which the current prim system doesn't even allow other than cut or hole.

Then there is adding the ability to create textures in world using provided shapes or allowing painting on the surface of an object that then is converted to a uv mapped texture.

Also your evidence of no game does it is incorrect. There are many games that provide this type of creation system within their program allowing users to subtract, add, texture, paint, convert to texture, etc with no issue at all. I am not going to post the links here to those games as, I have posted some before and others also have in these forums.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

In my crystal ball I see... A mutation of the 'Rona that sends everyone back into extreme isolation again which drives an invading horde of former SL critics seeking any kind of social interaction reg

I don't see the OPs post so I am going from what you guys before me have said and the title of course :D.  But --   I was talking with a good friend last night who used to be in SL but hasn'

I think SL needs to appeal to the younger crowd and consider mobile as has been mentioned but I'm not sure it's land that new people want.  I'd say most younger people may sign on because they want se

Posted Images

3 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

No disrespect intended but that love sick stranger is going to probably hit up the girl who perhaps looks less knowledgeable about SL (the new person look) and generally an easier pick up.

Maybe, I don't know how newbies are supposed to look these days. Something like this?

bilde.thumb.png.bcfb56f9c41c9e4f53dc33b654bfd8af.png

 

3 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I'd rather any love sick person just pass me by anyway.

Me too. Maybe I should start using a mesh head then.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I think many existing users will appreciate being able to keep in touch with their SL friends even when they're away from their computers and for that reason it still looks like a good diea to me.

agree

i know several people who use phone clients now in this situation. One lady does this on the bus to and from work. The bus trip is 1 and 1/2 hours each way, so logs in on her phone and chats to her friends

i think also that going text-only to start with is a good idea. [ good idea meaning prudent given the circumstance ] Get the comms side of it stable and working well then do a inworld graphic render in Phase 2

while phones have been available for ages, and so has SL, a thing for us to remember is that Linden as a software development company has zero institutional knowledge/experience in building phone apps. So best to walk and not try to run straight away. Is a whole lot to learn when building your phone app that can scale to/for the concurrency that SL experiences now.

and this learning process/experience has already been shown. Linden's first submission got lots of feedback from Apple, this - this - this - that - this.  So best for Linden to keep walking steadily on the path they are til Apple give the green light and then start running

Edited by Mollymews
[ prudent ]
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

The default head has major issues with its form. Its nose is to flat and deformities along the side of the nose cant be fixed. Its overall shape sliders are very limited due to the mesh and bad positioning mechanics. Ears are flat and badly textured offering no definition or customisation beyond pixie ears and human (i.e. no long elf ear options or removal without holes on the side of your head if you want to be a neko IIRC). The need of a separate editable file for brows etc is redundant and needs to be removed. The head needs to look realistic and I am afraid it is far from in its current state.

Oh yes, I absolutely agree with all of that but the mesh heads I've seen, possibly except for TMP, are even more idomatic and limiting. It's a style that is fashionable in SL right now but that brings me back to my forwards compatibility point. Fashion always has an expiration date.

 

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Whilst you may like it, the very fact that one of the major gripes for new users is the need to spend to much money on a head and body to look good is evidence enough that the body AND head both need major overhauls.

What gives you the impression I don't like it? I certainly do. But I don't see how we can get LL to agree.

I don't remember when I first joined Second Life but it was probably somewhere between 2005 and 2007 although it may have been earlier. I was dumped right into a huge shopping mall without further ado and was left there with my ugly newbie avatar looking at wall upon wall of outfits and skins and what-nots. The message was clear: "Yes, Second Life is free but you ain't gonna like it unless you pay". So I left, not really because I wasn't willing to spend a dollar or two, it was more because I wasn't going to give my payment data to a relatively new and unknown upstart company. It took me a couple of years before I rejoined with a new account.

I do believe the pressure to buy is one of the reasons why SL is struggling with the retention rate although it's probably not the main reason.

 

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Doesn't change the fact that it needs an update. It is a key feature for retention of users that do not have the capability of using a 3D software package outside of SL (due to cost or complexity of use)

Complexity is one of my main arguments against inworld polylist mesh editing. Those functions won't be less complex of easier to use if they are incorporated into the viewer rather than in an external program. Another important argument is that an in-world bulding tool would neccessarily require automatic optimization/LOD model generation since it's not realistic to expect users to do the job manually. This is fairly straight forward for procedural objects but seriously complex and unreliable for polylist meshes.

(For those unfamiliar with those terms, a polylist mesh - what we usually just call "mesh" in SL - is made from a long list of data defining the location etc. for each and every vertices and tri. A procedural object - the prim is a good allbeit rather simplistic and primitive example - is generated from a description of the overall shape. Say for example you want a sphere with a 1 m radius. If it's procedural, you tell the computer exaclty that: draw a sphere with 1 m radius. If it's plylist, you tell the computer: vertice no. 1: position 0.000,0.000,0.000,11.000,0.000 vertice no. 2: position: 0.000,0.25882,0.03407,0.01921,0.000,21.000, vertice no. 3: position: -0.06699,0.25000,0.03407,11.000,21.000 etc. etc.)

 

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

There would be no risk in providing simple Boolean functions such as add and subtract etc, to make one mesh object whereby it deletes unseen polygons within the mesh.

If you mean CSG (Constructive Solid Geometry), I think we can rule that out. It has all the disadvantages of both polylist mesh and procedural objects. Avi Bar-Zeev says a little bit about it in his How SL Primitves [Really] Work article (Wayback Machine link since he took down his blog a while ago). But a proper decimation function to get rid of wasted vertices and tris? Yes, please!

(NERD ALERT! Seriously techy stuff coming up, read at your won risk!!!)

As I already said, the prim system we have is ratehr simplistic and primitve (although still amazingly flexible). It doesn't have to be though. Avi Bar-Zeev had to nerf it a lot for it to work with the computers that were available back in 2003 and there are also lots of possibilities he and the other early Lindens didn't even think of that could make it far more flexible and efficient. I had a discussion with animats about it earlier this week and I sent him a list of a few features that could easily be added without affecting existing prims and without making inworld buiding too complicated.

New and upgraded twisting parameters (The "m_" prefixes are to match them with the names of the existing prim twist parameters):

  • m_curve_type (for both profile and path): More options, maybe even allow for custom curves.
  • m_skew: change from a single float to a two float vector (is it still a vector if it only has two values btw?) to allow for separate amount along x and y axis. (Or maybe not. I'm not really sure if that would be a useful addition.)
  • m_hole_offset: A two float vector to shift the hole off center.
  • m_hole_scale: For holes with different xy proportions than the prim as a whole
  • m_hole_begin / m_hole_end: For holes that don't go through the entire path. (There may be a different better solution for this, Bar-Zeev mentioned that the system doesn't really require the same profile along the entire path, but I haven't really looked into the complexities of this.)
  • m_pathcut_type: a one bit "flag" (or whatever it's called in programeese) to switch between two different types of pathcut: Cut to center the way it is today or in a straight line between start and end point.
  • m_resolution: Two parameters, one for profile, one for path. Defines the number of vertices along the profile/path. Would extend the functionality of circle curves to also cover polygons, add the ability to fine tune the effect of twisting and flexible paths and allow the extra vertices of the cube to be applied only on the rare occasions they are actually needed.
  • m_smooth_angle: Two parameters, one for profile, one for path. Defines the cutoff angle between sharp and smooth normals, similar to the autosmooth functions in Blender and the mesh uploader. Allows for smooth cubes/prisms and faceted curves.
  • m_taper_curve and m_taper_scale: For non-linear tapering.
  • m_shear_curve and m_shear_scale: For non-linear shear.
  • m_rnd_amount / m_rnd_seed: For semirandom distortions. Shifts the vertice positions to create more "natural" looking objects.

All of these additions/changes, except possibly the m_skew vector, should be very useful for prim builders and in theory at least they should be fairly easy to implement. But of course, there is sometimes a difference between theory and reality.

Four other potentially useful additions that aren't volume parameters as such:

  • Rigging: There is no real reason why a prim can't be rigged to a skeleton just like meshes are.
  • Nodes: Archimatix style. I'm not sure how this would be implemented. You'd have to define at which point scaling would change the number of nodes rather than their size and I really haven't thought about that. But if Archimatix can do it, why can't SL?
  • Welding: Merge multiple volumes into a single one the similar to how ground is merged between regions and sculpt endpoitns are "stiched" together.
  • Patches/"3d Decals": Superimpose a different shape - another prim or even a sculpt or mesh - onto one face of a prim. There's a Norwegian company who has done something like that in 3D printing. Bar-Zeev was very entyhusiastic about it and thought it could be a great bridge between polylist and procedural volumes. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the company and the Wayback machine doesn't seem to have stored that post from Bar-Zeev's blog.

Features to make prims more efficient (these were not on the list I gave animats but I think I mentioned most of them during our discussion):

  • Consolidated linksets (rather than handling each and every part of it separately).
  • Automatic culling of collapsed tris (just as Drayke suggested - this is why his post made me think of the discussion I ahd with animats).
  • Manual face culling (a "Hide" checkbox for each face of the prim).
  • Automatically or manually join the profile's end vertices.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I do believe the pressure to buy is one of the reasons why SL is struggling with the retention rate although it's probably not the main reason.

I agree and is why a good quality default body whatever that may be is still the right course of action. Unfortunately as you say convincing LL otherwise is never going to happen.

Quote

Mesh snipity

I'm not to knowledgeable in the complexities of the code in which LL created for primitives though did understand what you mentioned and am aware that Bar-Zeev would have liked to include far more in the code than he did. It is still a shame such persons are not available now to improve on these systems as even hiring them in a consultancy avenue would help especially given many of the current Lindens don't even know how to edit or in some cases know what some lines in the code do. Older Lindens who created them would. I think this is why so many creators were hoping sansar was a true SL2 as it would have allowed them to create a better and simple mesh creation system within the new version.

As it is now we are stuck with the code so if what you have mentioned as far as additional features, culling and optimisation are possible then I do hope that LL make and the new investors allow some tweaks.

I also think there is going to be the point where LL need to bite the bullet and break some things to get new systems working. It wouldn't be the first time they have, just that they prefer not to (Invisi-prims being one such break).

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i think also that going text-only to start with is a good idea. [ good idea meaning prudent given the circumstance ] Get the comms side of it stable and working well then do a inworld graphic render in Phase 2

I have no issue with them taking small steps and gradually improve and add systems to the mobile viewer however, past evidence shows that Linden Lab do not update systems once they have been done or if they do it takes years. You either get Experiences where we are still waiting for grid wide or you get Windlight where it took them over 10 years to updated it to what it originally was promised.

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

while phones have been available for ages, and so has SL, a thing for us to remember is that Linden as a software development company has zero institutional knowledge/experience in building phone apps. So best to walk and not try to run straight away. Is a whole lot to learn when building your phone app that can scale to/for the concurrency that SL experiences now.

Now you have me worried. If they haven't hired someone (at least one person) specialising in mobile apps for both code and ui then it will be a disaster like there Viewer 2 was.

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

 So best for Linden to keep walking steadily on the path they are til Apple give the green light and then start running

And then wait another 2 years for an android version.

Edited by Drayke Newall
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I'm just disagreeing with your assessment that most men prefer women without mesh heads.

This is a most interesting thought, the mesh vs the non-mesh head.  I'd say most men prefer a women who is not the "diva" upon first meeting.  Many men look at the mesh head women as most likely "divas" and/or "princesses".  While men do like to spoil a woman and make her happy with his wallet, as has been my experience in real life, and I feel lucky that way; but men when they first meet a girl, don't.   The non-mesh head female probably seems more down to earth among other things.  Was I hit on more as a Classic head/mesh body - yep.  

As far as can the starter head be attractive.  It most certainly can, on ULTRA, for photographs, at a long distance, and in those parameters, as an avatar photographer, the non-mesh Classic head is better because it's more realistic.  The Classic avatars are also more in proportion and with mesh heads and mesh bodies I'm constantly saying to myself 'the head is too big, the head is too small, the head is too big, the head is too small, and on and on...and the same with the legs - 'the legs are too long, the legs are too short, the legs are too long, the legs are too short and this goes on FOREVER.  The Classic avatar is just more in proportion all around.  

I have shared long before you were in the forums Rowan that I was a Classic avatar for my first year and a half here in SL because it was complicated to become a mesh head and I came to build, so I felt mesh avatar is not needed as I was working pretty much alone.  But, I did take a look around at appliers and could not figure out what to do.  I didn't figure out appliers until I realized I needed to put the body alpha on.  DUH!  So, instead of going mesh head which I could not decide...I decided to get a mesh body first and learn appliers that way.  So, I got the Maitreya mesh body and remained a Classic head with Maitreya mesh body for a year at least.  I would take long distance shots of my avatar - mesh body, Classic head and she looked real.  It still blows my mind how real she really looked.  The first photo I've shared on the forums before of my mesh body/Classic head avatar.   The 2nd photo shows the face better, but in the 2nd photo you can see I can get a rather realistic turned up nose (which is what my nose is) far better on the Classic head.  3rd photo, a close up of one of my latest shapes...she's not very realistic...and she is a mesh head/mesh body.  So, I understand what Chin Rey is saying here.  I like doll looks but I'd like more realism too.  However, Rowan you have probably the most realistic mesh avatar I've ever seen.  They are getting better but how much more money am I going to throw at new shinnies in what could be a drastic economic downturn?  Probably not much unless the price is way low.  (Lately I've been taking off the eyelashes because I don't like them - they are too fake.)

Snapshot_1310.jpg

fairre.png

Snapshot_1547 (2).jpg

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyche's signup numbers have been nagging at me since I first saw them. I don't think Tyche is reporting anything wrong but there's been some weird change we don't understand. We've known all along that SL signup volume is unrelated to the number of new avatars that ever appear in-world. Although those actual new avatars go through a signup process, their numbers aren't even a monotonic function of the signups, there's so much irrelevant noise in the latter number. So whatever used to motivate creation of one account after another, never to be used, there must be somewhat less of that motivation these days. Likely as not, that's good for the platform, but who knows?

I'm a little surprised by how small and Tilia-centric the new board of directors is. Perhaps the owners are planning to learn more about the Lab's larger business first and then add somebody with SL-relevant (non-fintech) industry background to the board.

Platform-wise, the mobile client will be important eventually, but there's enough in flux right now that I wouldn't really blame product planners taking their time, especially regarding 3D graphics. On the plus side, it seems they'll have plenty of time to ignore anything happening in VR without losing any market share, and we can be grateful they never wasted development effort on gaming consoles, but they do need to solve the Mac OpenGL deprecation, and it seems there are still enough SL-running PCs incapable of Vulkan to make this a tricky business decision somebody must be making now (unless we're just waiting on an announcement).

Premium Plus will likely come after most SL users can get a COVID vaccination, and I've given up predicting what it will be. I'd like to think it will enable grid-scope Experiences, and I don't really care about anything else. I could use more bonus tier, sure, or I might consider a standalone Homestead, but those don't compare to finally being able to develop and use grid-scope Experiences.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

This is a most interesting thought, the mesh vs the non-mesh head.  I'd say most men prefer a women who is not the "diva" upon first meeting.  Many men look at the mesh head women as most likely "divas" and/or "princesses".  While men do like to spoil a woman and make her happy with his wallet, as has been my experience in real life, and I feel lucky that way; but men when they first meet a girl, don't.   The non-mesh head female probably seems more down to earth among other things.  Was I hit on more as a Classic head/mesh body - yep.  

As far as can the starter head be attractive.  It most certainly can, on ULTRA, for photographs, at a long distance, and in those parameters, as an avatar photographer, the non-mesh Classic head is better because it's more realistic.  The Classic avatars are also more in proportion and with mesh heads and mesh bodies I'm constantly saying to myself 'the head is too big, the head is too small, the head is too big, the head is too small, and on and on...and the same with the legs - 'the legs are too long, the legs are too short, the legs are too long, the legs are too short and this goes on FOREVER.  The Classic avatar is just more in proportion all around.  

I have shared long before you were in the forums Rowan that I was a Classic avatar for my first year and a half here in SL because it was complicated to become a mesh head and I came to build, so I felt mesh avatar is not needed as I was working pretty much alone.  But, I did take a look around at appliers and could not figure out what to do.  I didn't figure out appliers until I realized I needed to put the body alpha on.  DUH!  So, instead of going mesh head which I could not decide...I decided to get a mesh body first and learn appliers that way.  So, I got the Maitreya mesh body and remained a Classic head with Maitreya mesh body for a year at least.  I would take long distance shots of my avatar - mesh body, Classic head and she looked real.  It still blows my mind how real she really looked.  The first photo I've shared on the forums before of my mesh body/Classic head avatar.   The 2nd photo shows the face better, but in the 2nd photo you can see I can get a rather realistic turned up nose (which is what my nose is) far better on the Classic head.  3rd photo, a close up of one of my latest shapes...she's not very realistic...and she is a mesh head/mesh body.  So, I understand what Chin Rey is saying here.  I like doll looks but I'd like more realism too.  However, Rowan you have probably the most realistic mesh avatar I've ever seen.  They are getting better but how much more money am I going to throw at new shinnies in what could be a drastic economic downturn?  Probably not much unless the price is way low.  (Lately I've been taking off the eyelashes because I don't like them - they are too fake.)

Snapshot_1310.jpg

fairre.png

Snapshot_1547 (2).jpg

I didn't say classic heads couldn't be made to look good.  As with mesh heads, it takes skill and patience to achieve a good look.  That along with choosing the right skin makes all the difference.  Personally, I get hit on just as much with my mesh head as with the system head.  

Any men want to weight in on which they prefer?  I would imagine those with mesh heads might prefer women with mesh heads and those without prefer those without.  Just my opinion and totally off topic so I'll leave it at that.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

I disagree. The default head has major issues with its form. Its nose is to flat and deformities along the side of the nose cant be fixed. Its overall shape sliders are very limited due to the mesh and bad positioning mechanics. Ears are flat and badly textured offering no definition or customisation beyond pixie ears and human (i.e. no long elf ear options or removal without holes on the side of your head if you want to be a neko IIRC). The need of a separate editable file for brows etc is redundant and needs to be removed. The head needs to look realistic and I am afraid it is far from in its current state.

Whilst you may like it, the very fact that one of the major gripes for new users is the need to spend to much money on a head and body to look good is evidence enough that the body AND head both need major overhauls.

I disagree with all of this and wonder if you've ever seen a Classic head on ULTRA with pixels bumped way up?  They look downright real.  I cannot get that sense of real with a mesh head even at a distance...it's more "doll".   I'm sure most people are not rezzing nor using ULTRA nor bumping their pixels up either at first...let alone ever.

The picture size that can be put on Marketplace needs to be fixed and allow for a larger file formatted size.    I'd say I keep my camera pixels low because of Marketplace as it's a hassle to keep changing them for hobby photography.  But, definitely Marketplace needs to allow a larger photo period; it's like stone age.    And, then, people could rez with larger pixels for their camera.

Plus, I'm going to have to add, Classic avatars are often shunned and rejected.  What SL is now is start as a reject and that's not right to do to somebody.

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I didn't say classic heads couldn't be made to look good.  As with mesh heads, it takes skill and patience to achieve a good look.  That along with choosing the right skin makes all the difference.  Personally, I get hit on just as much with my mesh head as with the system head.  

Any men want to weight in on which they prefer?  I would imagine those with mesh heads might prefer women with mesh heads and those without prefer those without.  Just my opinion and totally off topic so I'll leave it at that.

Do you go to Adult places though because I don't?  That could make a difference.  I'm just speaking of Moderate and not an Adult club at all...more like everybody clubs.  I never go to Adult clubs nor sex sims.  

However, LL should consider it will need new blood at some time and rezzing as a reject is not a terribly wise business plan.  lol

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/8/2021 at 6:51 AM, FairreLilette said:

I think it's safe to say that was Philip Rosedale's vision.  We could sign on and begin having fun the same day.  Now, it's sign up and be rejected if you don't have a mesh avatar.  Once newbies look at the cost and hassle of making a mesh avatar, they are gone and off to simpler worlds.  And, some probably leave because they have to deal with a rejection and rejection is painful.  Philip Rosedale did once have a simpler world.   Others may think we looked awful as Classic avatars, but the lighting and viewer were different to enhance the Classic avatar more, and it was fun.  I think the motto was "meet friends today" and "start creating today".  That's not so today unless you want to live a SL as a semi rejected hermit in a Classic avatar.    

It's funny January you mention sims for Classic avatars only.  When I first joined SL I was told many clubs were allowing mesh avatars only.  

My man who used to DJ in world was booted from a club that only allowed Mesh avatars. It was mentioned to him and after he started the owner said "what, system avi --- you're out of here buddy" and quickly banned him. Was a popular club too sadly.

15 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Compare SL website to this game website: The Acclaimed MMORPG | Black Desert Online It shows a video auto playing what it looks like (SL could have a machinima playing). It shows Latest News development wise. What is happening all on the homepage. No hidden blog posts for news like SL does. It shows its main features at a glance and even without clicking the links you can tell what it is. It shows people you can play dynamically (SL could show what avatars are available at start, quick select and sign-up).

BDO --- I so love that game!  LL should take some tips on how to market SL from them. I also in training to be a GM for them too!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Plus, I'm going to have to add, Classic avatars are often shunned and rejected.  What SL is now is start as a reject and that's not right to do to somebody.

I agree. I cn confirm that some sims banned this avatar for "inappropiate behavior"...only because he was not mesh but classic!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My man who used to DJ in world was booted from a club that only allowed Mesh avatars. It was mentioned to him and after he started the owner said "what, system avi --- you're out of here buddy" and quickly banned him. Was a popular club too sadly.

Oh man...that's sad.  There are "stories" to tell about this problem.  Perhaps LL should consider avi's that render not as a human...and maybe change the name to "Create Your Life" or something like that.  I have no idea how to help this problem.

And, LL saying "business as usual" translates to me as 'users will debate pros and cons but things will change rather slowly...if at all' in regards to some things or most things.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2021 at 7:55 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

 

It was good perhaps that their review happened on Biden's watch, so to speak, and not Trump's. But since the SL currency is not bitcoin, I wouldn't expect any hold-ups.

 

I'm lost here.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Tyche's signup numbers have been nagging at me since I first saw them. I don't think Tyche is reporting anything wrong but there's been some weird change we don't understand. We've known all along that SL signup volume is unrelated to the number of new avatars that ever appear in-world.

That's perfectly normal. How many free subscription web sites have you signed up to but never got around to use? There is one MMORPG that boasts they have "billions of users". Yeah right!

Edited by ChinRey
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

That's perfectly normal. How many free subscription web sites have you sigined up to but never got around to use? There is one MMORPG that boasts they have "billions of users". Yeah right!

My man tried one for about 6 months called Rappelz.  Claimed millions of users --- but when logged in he only saw a few.  He had an issue with something and their customer support was laughable at best. They did not do anything.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I didn't say classic heads couldn't be made to look good.  As with mesh heads, it takes skill and patience to achieve a good look.

Oh yes. It's much more about how you set those sliders than what kind of avatar you use.

 

4 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

That along with choosing the right skin makes all the difference.

That is the most important factor! There is no such thing as a great shape - system or mesh - and there is no such thing as a great skin. There are only great skin/shape combinations.

 

4 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

Any men want to weight in on which they prefer?

But would they know? I've yet to meet somebody who asked me if I use a mesh head but lots of people are surprised if I mention I don't. I've never been banned for not wearing a mesh head either but I don't know if I've ever been to such a place.

Edited by ChinRey
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I disagree with all of this and wonder if you've ever seen a Classic head on ULTRA with pixels bumped way up?

Oh ultra, that gives me an excuse to bring up my pet peeve, lag! It goes like this:

For all tis fkaws, ultra graphics is a huge improvement over the simpler graphics settings. Unfortunately SL is so render heavy many people can't use ultra. To compensate for this, content creators use textures with baked shadows and AO and more complex meshes to somewhat emulate what ultra can do automatically. This makes SL even more render heavy so even fewer people can use ultra.

It's a vicious circle and the biggest SL upgrade we can possibly imagine would be to break that circle. Sadly there doesn't seem to be a solution there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

If they haven't hired someone (at least one person) specialising in mobile apps for both code and ui then it will be a disaster like there Viewer 2 was.

There's a little bit of irony there. The reason Facebook managed to grow almost over night from being one in a crowd of social media to becoming the one and only, was that they were the first to launch a mobile app. The man who proposed and created that app was Cory Ondrejka, LL's first CTO and the main architect behind Second Life. Linden Lab fired him, Faceboook promoted him to vice CEO.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Oh ultra, that gives me an excuse to bring up my pet peeve, lag! It goes like this:

For all tis fkaws, ultra graphics is a huge improvement over the simpler graphics settings. Unfortunately SL is so render heavy many people can't use ultra. To compensate for this, content creators use textures with baked shadows and AO and more complex meshes to somewhat emulate what ultra can do automatically. This makes SL even more render heavy so even fewer people can use ultra.

It's a vicious circle and the biggest SL upgrade we can possibly imagine would be to break that circle. Sadly there doesn't seem to be a solution there.

Let me clarify something about ULTRA.  I meant ULTRA for photographs.  I can bump my pixels way up in the camera setting and set my graphics on ULTRA for photography.  As far as using the world generally in ULTRA, no, far too laggy as you've mentioned.  So, I mean for photography only.   SL does run pretty good for me on HIGH though.  

I have posted several photos above these last few posts and look at the nose.  Pictures 1 and 2 are Classic Head/Mesh body.  Picture 3 is Mesh Head/Mesh body.   Look at the nose in pictures 2 and 3.  Picture 2 is a Classic head nose with a realistic looking turned up nose.  Picture 3 is a mesh head with a blah nose that costs about $20 U.S. dollars.  Someone said the nose on Classic Avatars is bad.  I don't think so if you look at the nose in the two photos I'm talking about here.

And, I would not spend $20 more U.S. dollars for another mesh head that may have a turned up nose.   The Classic head gives me a great nose but remember that photo I'm talking about is a Classic avatar on ULTRA for the picture with pixels turned way up in my camera settings.  The mesh headh/mesh body 3rd photo I am speaking about is supposed to have a turned up nose too - it doesn't work even with setting it all the way.  

Edited by FairreLilette
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Let me clarify something about ULTRA.  I meant ULTRA for photographs.  I can bump my pixels way up in the camera setting and set my graphics on ULTRA for photography.  As far as using the world generally in ULTRA, no, far too laggy as you've mentioned.  So, I mean for photography only.   SL does run pretty good for me on HIGH though.  

I have posted several photos above these last few posts and look at the nose.  Pictures 1 and 2 are Classic Head/Mesh body.  Picture 3 is Mesh Head/Mesh body.   Look at the nose in pictures 2 and 3.  Picture 2 is a Classic head nose with a realistic looking turned up nose.  Picture 3 is a mesh head with a blah nose that costs about $20 U.S. dollars.  Someone said the nose on Classic Avatars is bad.  I don't think so if you look at the nose in the two photos I'm talking about here.

And, I would not spend $20 more U.S. dollars for another mesh head that may have a turned up nose.   The Classic head gives me a great nose but remember that photo I'm talking about is a Classic avatar on ULTRA for the picture with pixels turned way up in my camera settings.  The mesh headh/mesh body 3rd photo I am speaking about is supposed to have a turned up nose too - it doesn't work even with setting it all the way.  

Everyone has a different definition of what looks good.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Now you have me worried. If they haven't hired someone (at least one person) specialising in mobile apps for both code and ui then it will be a disaster like there Viewer 2 was.

And then wait another 2 years for an android version.

by institutional knowledge I mean the company/team as a whole, not as a collection of individuals some with personal experience/knowledge

in most professional dev teams there are individuals who do have lots of knowledge/experience in a wide range of devices/platforms including mobile, and I think that the Linden dev team would be no exception to this

this is not the same tho as a dev team as a whole (as an institution) having an in-depth knowledge of the SL backend and also having extensive experience of surfacing this particular back end on a mobile device. Institutional knowledge/experience which comes when the work is formally initiated by the company  

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Everyone has a different definition of what looks good.

Yes, of course but I'm showing something different.  I'm showing how I can make a turned up nose with the Classic avatar but with a mesh head I'd say I look like I have a piggy nose and there is no real turned up nose shape.  I have a turned up nose in real life so I've always had avatars with turned up noses.  I'm also showing what Classic avatars look like on ULTRA which most rarely, if ever, see.  

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, of course but I'm showing something different.  I'm showing how I can make a turned up nose with the Classic avatar but with a mesh head I'd say I look like I have a piggy nose and there is no real turned up nose shape.  I have a turned up nose in real life so I've always had avatars with turned up noses.  I'm also showing what Classic avatars look like on ULTRA which most rarely, if ever, see.  

All I can say about that is that for me, noses are THE most difficult part of editing a mesh head and it took me quite some time to get rid of a turned up nose look.  

/me shrugs

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...