Outfits Management

[mistythunder]

Up to now I have been directly managing the contents of my Outfits folder, and bypassing the Appearance Editor's usage. I have a directory structure of subfolders where my outfits are organized by category, which can be easily navigate to a desired outfit. To my disappointment, and frustration, recent changes in SL, which have been reflected in recent versions of the Firestorm viewer I use, has made this impossible. New directories cannot be made in the Outfits folder anymore. Nor can a directory be dragged into it. This means I must now move this directory structure outside of the outfits folder if I am to be able to edit it. It is unfortunate because I liked it being enforced that only links can be in the Outfits folder, and subfolders thereof.

I gather SL did this to force users to start using the Appearance Editor. I have looked into using it, and found it cannot make subfolders in the Outfits folder. I could categorize the outfits by name there, but because the categories are not collapsible, it means looking at a long list of outfits. So I am reluctant to use it.

Soon I will start using my Maitreya Body, and LeLutka head in BOM mode. In BOM mode the order in which tattoos are applied can be important. The Appearance Editor preserves this order. But I am reluctant because it means a long list of outfits in a single level, because a directory tree structure cannot be made there. Is there a way to preserve the tattoo apply order in an Inventory's user created folder that contains an outfit, so that when "Replace Current Outfit" is used on that folder, the tattoos are applied in the desired order?

[arabellajones]

It's been like this for a long time. And I find that the default Outfits folder, that very flat structure, is horrible. So I set up my own folder and sub-folders and sub-sub-folders. It's not too difficult.

I find the trick that pays off is to copy the links from the "Current Outfit" folder to whatever folder I choose. I'm using Firestorm, so I choose not to copy the link to the Firestorm bridge. The Firestorm Right-Click options on an item or folder may give more options than the SL viewer does. You could have the basic body/hair/skin package in one folder, clothes in another, but that almost feels too complicated. Firestorm's "Favorite Wearables" can be useful too. Put a HUD on that rather than in the Outfit. Other viewers may have these tools.

Sorry, I don't know about BOM ordering for tattoos. I suppose it matters for classic bodies too but they're not a feature I use. I think I have used multiple textures a few times with the tattoo layer to combine things that don't overlap.

Yes, sometimes I get a new item in the folder instead of a link. Not often, and It can be useful. It's not a big deal.

[Vir Linden]

Could you give me details on what specific steps are not working for you? I'm testing with the SL default viewer, and can do:

• Right click on My Outfits, pick "New Folder". This makes a new non-outfit folder that can be used for grouping
• Drag an existing outfit into that new folder
• Right click that new outfit and pick "replace current outfit"

Is that enough to be able to manage groups of outfits? It's possible that these are more recent changes that have not been brought into Firestorm yet - if the issue only exists in Firestorm you would need to check with them.

[mistythunder]

Firestorm does not have a system folder named "My Outfits". I believe the "My Outfits" folder you refer to is the equivalent of Firestorm's "Outfits" folder. When I right click the "Outfits" folder I get the option to "Create a new outfit". The option to create a subfolder is not there as shown in the attached screenshot.

The screenshot shows my directory tree structure. I use the > character to show the directory is not itself an outfit, but is one that contains outfits. Directories that do not have the > character as the first character are outfits. The directories shown in the screenshot were created before a change was made in SL that made directory creation within the "Outfits" folder impossible, and direct creation of links in such subfolders without using the Appearance Editor impossible.

Because I am no longer able to manage directories within the Outfits folder, the directories I have created in it will have to be moved outside the Outfits folder. This is not a problem though. What I do need for outfit folders of my own creation is a means of controlling the order the tattoos are applied. Right now the only way I know to assure they are applied in the right order is to use the Appearance Editor.

So right now I have the option to manage my outfits in a directory tree in a root folder that is outside the system "Outfits" folder and have no means of controlling the order the tattoos are applied in, or use the Appearance Editor and live with a flat directory structure.

Edited January 6, 2021 by mistythunder

[Vir Linden]

I think you're right, Outfits and My Outfits are probably the same thing. Could you try with the default SL viewer and see if it works for you there? Can grab the viewer at https://secondlife.com/support/downloads/

[Ansariel Hiller]

7 hours ago, Vir Linden said:

I think you're right, Outfits and My Outfits are probably the same thing. Could you try with the default SL viewer and see if it works for you there? Can grab the viewer at https://secondlife.com/support/downloads/

@Vir Linden You can create normal folders underneath the (My) Outfits folder in the SL viewer, but additional checks added a while ago now prevent you from actually copy & pasting valid items into outfit folders - at least on the SL viewer since I fixed that in Firestorm long time ago. And since it was (and actually still is) basically not intended to have outfits in subfolders, the option to create normal folders underneath the (My) Outfits folder is actually wrong - the correct option would be "New Outfit" instead of "New Folder" here, which is the case in current Firestorm release.

I changed it for next release to actually allow creating subfolders and then actual outfit folders inside them since you mentioned fiddling with it on the JIRA, but if you think outfit folders in subfolders should be a valid option, then you need to fix the outfits list: The outfits list in the My Appearance window only adds a category observer for the (My) Outfits root folder, so any changes to outfit folders in subfolders won't be reflected in the outfits list at all, showing wrong/inconsist/outdated data.

[Nalates Urriah]

Yes, it would be REALLY nice to have folders and subfolders for organizing Outfits.

As it is now I group my outfits in a flat list. I name them to sort into sections of the list. For an at the top-of-list starter outfit I use: !!Nude Slink GA.EG. For dresses: !Dress Formal [color and other info]. 

@Ansariel Hiller Is there a JIRA for such a feature, outfit organizing folders?

[Ansariel Hiller]

4 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

@Ansariel Hiller Is there a JIRA for such a feature, outfit organizing folders?

Most likely only the JIRA tickets from people complaining about not being able to use subfolders anymore.

[mistythunder]

I have an Ubuntu OS. The Linux version of the Official Second Life Viewer is two years out of date. So I installed the latest MS Windows version of it using CrossOver to run it in Wine. The viewer did seem to run in Wine. Because I normally use Firestorm, and because I did not want my IM logs to end up in the Wine bottle, I decided I should log into my account in the Beta Grid. But the Ctrl + Shift + G did not make the grid options appear in the log in screen. I do not see a way to login to the Beta grid with Official Second Life Viewer. I suspect it is because the Second Life viewer does not allow it the first time it is run after it is installed.

[Vir Linden]

16 hours ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

the option to create normal folders underneath the (My) Outfits folder is actually wrong - the correct option would be "New Outfit" instead of "New Folder" here, which is the case in current Firestorm release

I don't think that really matches the intent of outfits. A high level container for outfits is not itself an outfit. For example, if you want to group together all your formalwear, you could create a Formalwear folder, and put your tuxedo outfit, and your spangly dress outfit, under the Formalwear folder. Formalwear should not be an outfit, because you would never wear it; you would only wear one of its children, which are actual outfits.

[mistythunder]

Is there a way to control the order in which tattoos are applied in an outfit folder that is not managed by the Appearance Editor, and is outside the Outfits folder?

[Rowan Amore]

@mistythundersaid.... Is there a way to preserve the tattoo apply order in an Inventory's user created folder that contains an outfit, so that when "Replace Current Outfit" is used on that folder, the tattoos are applied in the desired order?

One way to find out for sure.  Make a copy of your body, wear it and turn on BOM then set it up with tattoo layers, save outfit, switch out then back and see if the layers remain as you set them up.

[Vir Linden]

If you have an outfit folder that contains links to the items (which is the way it should normally work), then you can change the ordering of items within the outfit. This is in the edit outfit floater - in the Second Life viewer, you can right click yourself and pick "edit my outfit". Inside that floater, you see a list of worn items. If you hover over an item that can be reordered, there will be arrows next to it. Click the arrows to move the item up or down within the stack. (Details are probably different for Firestorm)

Reordering only applies to items of the same type, so you can change the ordering of different tattoos, but ordering between different item types is fixed - for example, shirts will always appear over tattoos.

[Solar Legion]

Huh, didn't know you could reorder things that way. Handy.

[Vir Linden]

Following up on the discussion of nesting outfits inside folders: I mentioned above that this sort of works. You can make folders and store outfits inside them. However, it's not supported as well as it should be - there are are places where the UI gets into a strange state when you have nested folders, and possibly other issues we haven't identified yet. Ansariel's note above probably identifies part of the problem. We will be working on fixing these issues as we identify them.

The question of whether/how to allow for "partial outfits" like collections of hud-related content, or nesting things inside a given outfit, is a separate topic for future discussion.

[MzPenny]

I'm totally with this person on missing the ability to have subfolders in the system Outfits folder. I have used this for years and me and my friends are bummed it's no longer available. My sub system for example was Pant Outfits; Dresses; Holidays; Shorts; Formal Wear...etc etc. It helped avoid the scrolling and scrolling to find the premade outfit I was looking for. If you are an outfit maker (verses hunt and peck for a pair of pants, a top, shoes, hair, jewelry etc. ) then you have a lot of outfits... thus  having subfolders saves time. It's as simple as that. I personally HATE it when I have to scroll and scroll and scroll trying to find something. So I'm a big subfolder, OCD filing system type person for my invy period! hehe So yeah, please bring this back. Men may not see the need but women need this! 

[PritiRavenheart]

I noticed, that if there are already subfolders in the Outfits folder, you can create new subfolders in the subfolders still in Fierstorm. I circumvent the inability to create folders directly in the Outfit Folder, by now making more in the ones I already had. I hate that I can't make entirely new categories in the Outfits folder any more, so I would love it that would be impelemented again. 

[Jennifer Boyle]

Please, please, please restore our ability to create regular folders inside the My Outfits (LL viewer) or Outfits (FS) folders. I use regular folders to organize outfits, particularly seasonal ones. I have a folder named for each season. Heretofore, I would drag the out-of season folder out and put it in a storage folder to unclutter my outfits list and drag the current-season folder into the outfits folder. Now, the regular folders that I previously created inside my Outfits folder are still there. I can rename them,  create regular folders inside them, drag regular folders into them. I cannot create or drag a regular folder to be a subfolder of Outfits.

Fortunately, I can still move outfits in and out of the Outfits folder by selecting them, not the folder. It was handier when I could just move the folder.

[Modulated]

On 12/2/2022 at 10:03 PM, Jennifer Boyle said:

Please, please, please restore our ability to create regular folders inside the My Outfits (LL viewer) or Outfits (FS) folders. I use regular folders to organize outfits, particularly seasonal ones. I have a folder named for each season. Heretofore, I would drag the out-of season folder out and put it in a storage folder to unclutter my outfits list and drag the current-season folder into the outfits folder. Now, the regular folders that I previously created inside my Outfits folder are still there. I can rename them,  create regular folders inside them, drag regular folders into them. I cannot create or drag a regular folder to be a subfolder of Outfits.

Fortunately, I can still move outfits in and out of the Outfits folder by selecting them, not the folder. It was handier when I could just move the folder.

I saw it explained once in support chat that the ability to do this was always a bug and it caused fetching issues for inventory, and that's why it was 'fixed'.

[Jennifer Boyle]

20 hours ago, Modulated said:

I saw it explained once in support chat that the ability to do this was always a bug and it caused fetching issues for inventory, and that's why it was 'fixed'.

It has caused no fetching issues for my inventory. If it causes them with others' inventories, then the fetching issues should be fixed without removing a valuable feature.

[Katherine Heartsong]

10 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

It has caused no fetching issues for my inventory. If it causes them with others' inventories, then the fetching issues should be fixed without removing a valuable feature.

This. No issues on my end either and I used folders and subfolders extensively in my Inventory folder to manage outfit types. Crazy you can't create folders in Inventory anymore.

[Szerewp Loon]

You can use temporarily viewer "Radegast" In this viewer you can add folders to My Outfits  and after it  back to Firestorm.