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hmm.. when it comes to SL relationships I always start from a position of being suspicious & cautious.  Reason being that a lot of people come here to explore different things that they might neve

No one is in any way offended by who or what you are attracted to. What was appalling, was how you expressed your idea of what a woman is, what womanhood is. Had you just diddled around in private aro

I'm not a huge fan of people, especially crowds of people, in either world. I'm not so much so, to the point that I'm completely socially inept, but I'll pick a quiet evening at home over a night-out

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2 hours ago, Bagnu said:

Honestly, i just simply like the way a woman looks in them.No different than a particular hairstyle or other piece of clothing. Why do women like us wearing certain things? It's the same.

No, there's a huge difference and it's not about a look.  Put on a bra or better yet a push-up bra, a girdle and a pair of stilettoes and wear those for 10 hours and then get back to me.  Bras, girdles, push-up bras, stilettoes are very painful not to mention harmful.   The old Victorian Era whale bone corsets used to deform a young girl's ribs and deform the ribcage.  Look it up.  Some medical professionals are now studying whether push-up bras cause breast cancer.  But, again, look it up.  

Here's part of it.  It was known women were breaking their ribs in the Victorian era.

Waist training can damage vital organs

In the short-term, this likely just feels very uncomfortable, but long-term waist training can permanently harm organs, disfigure your body, or even fracture your ribs.

image.jpg

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15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, there's a huge difference and it's not about a look.  Put on a bra or better yet a push-up bra, a girdle and a pair of stilettoes and wear those for 10 hours and then get back to me.  Bras, girdles, push-up bras, stilettoes are very painful not to mention harmful.   The old Victorian Era whale bone corsets used to deform a young girl's ribs and deform the ribcage.  Look it up.  Some medical professionals are now studying whether push-up bras cause breast cancer.  But, again, look it up.  

Here's part of it.  It was known women were breaking their ribs in the Victorian era.

Waist training can damage vital organs

In the short-term, this likely just feels very uncomfortable, but long-term waist training can permanently harm organs, disfigure your body, or even fracture your ribs.

image.jpg

I wouldn't want anything like that. I care about the woman I'm with. My wife wears very high heels sometimes, and she has an entire walk in closet full of them, and has 5 pairs in our mudroom

The key word here is "sometimes"

 Both my wife and daughter wear bras. I don't know anything about that. And I don't personally care either way .Neither one wears any sort of girdle, so again, I know nothing about that.

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12 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I wouldn't want anything like that. I care about the woman I'm with. My wife wears very high heels sometimes, and she has an entire walk in closet full of them, and has 5 pairs in our mudroom

The key word here is "sometimes"

It's horrible, horrible, horrible...breaking women's ribs and young girls too.  Some of you might have seen "the corset" scene in "Gone With the Wind".  Scarlet holding on to the bed while she keeps telling her "mammie" to pull the strings tighter and tighter and tighter, and all the while those "strings" are breaking her ribs.  I have seen real Victorian era photographs of badly deformed women who couldn't stand up straight plus other deformities from those corsets.  The push-up bra with the wire underneath is pure torture.  Some day women may be free of all of this but this stereotyping is a huge part of The Adult Entertainment business.  I wear heels sometimes in SL but I want a comfortable and safe real life.  I've wore heels for a short time for my rl boyfriends fantasies, but he wanted sex with me regardless of high heels or not though...so it's really the person.   We were really into each other, heels were one maybe two hours out of our nearly seven years together and we had sex every day for seven years and it was incredible.  And, it wasn't the heels that made that happen, we were just really into each other.    

Edited by FairreLilette
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7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's horrible, horrible, horrible...breaking women's ribs and young girls too.  Some of you might have seen "the corset" scene in "Gone With the Wind".  Scarlet holding on to the bed while she keeps telling her "mammie" to pull the strings tighter and tighter and tighter, and all the while those "strings" are breaking her ribs.  I have seen real Victorian era photographs of badly deformed women who couldn't stand up straight plus other deformities from those corsets.  The push-up bra with the wire underneath is pure torture.  Some day women may be free of all of this but this stereotyping is a huge part of The Adult Entertainment business.  I wear heels sometimes in SL but I want a comfortable and safe real life.  I've wore heels for a short time for my rl boyfriends fantasies, but he wanted sex with me regardless of high heels or not though...so it's really the person.   We were really into each other.  

Well guess what, being into the woman I'm with is the most important thing for me. That applies both to RL and SL. All their imperfections included.

Edited by Bagnu
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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

It's horrible, horrible, horrible...breaking women's ribs and young girls too.  Some of you might have seen "the corset" scene in "Gone With the Wind".  Scarlet holding on to the bed while she keeps telling her "mammie" to pull the strings tighter and tighter and tighter, and all the while those "strings" are breaking her ribs.  I have seen real Victorian era photographs of badly deformed women who couldn't stand up straight plus other deformities from those corsets.  The push-up bra with the wire underneath is pure torture.  Some day women may be free of all of this but this stereotyping is a huge part of The Adult Entertainment business.  I wear heels sometimes in SL but I want a comfortable and safe real life.  I've wore heels for a short time for my rl boyfriends fantasies, but he wanted sex with me regardless of high heels or not though...so it's really the person.   We were really into each other, heels were one maybe two hours out of our nearly seven years together and we had sex every day for seven years and it was incredible.  And, it wasn't the heels that made that happen, we were just really into each other.    

I'm just going to jump in here about corsets. Many of the horror stories we hear about Victorian women breaking ribs or deforming their bodies are entirely myth for the most part besides a few strange cases. These excessive cases are the ones you're going to hear about the most of course, but realistically a corset was fitted to a woman's exact form when it was made. Over time it actually shaped itself to her, not the other way around. Clothing style at the time is what made the appearance of a very small waist. I know this because I've done a lot of period sewing and have studied Victorian fashion closely. I'm not going to claim they were comfortable, but they also weren't harmful if used correctly.

There have even been strange stories of women deforming their bodies with corsets today and these are extreme dangerous cases that don't represent the majority. Doctors even prescribe fitted corsets for medical reasons. I know this from experience. I was one of the rare cases born with mild scoliosis. It went untreated until I was adopted so that means horrible chronic pain and back spasms as an adult. This being the case, my doctor prescribed having a corset made to my scoliosis shape for pain relief. It has helped a lot. It all depends on how you use a tool whether it is painful or not. If you abuse it, of course it can be harmful like anything else.

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22 minutes ago, Amanda Crisp said:

Also, Male corseting and the associated body-changes were sort of an upper class thing until the 20th century, when it became a fetish....

The “Wasp Waist” was attractive I guess?

 

image.gif

It does nothing for me. I like a woman in a dress and heels. That's it. But again, the woman inside is the most important thing for me.

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15 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I think of it more as social aloneness instead of loneliness.  I might be alone but I'm seldom feeling lonely

But that is just me.

I'm agree.. this is why I added "social" 
as usual my use of english not fit enough to which what i mean
I write in italian: "sono molto socievole ma non sociale"

14 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Not me.  Even though I have been very happy being mostly a home-body anti-partier most of my life (I love life sober and don't like drugs), with Covid-19 isolation I miss my best friend whom I used to see every day because we live in the same building.  I can't wait until this Covid-19 isolation ends and I have my best friend again.  I like (most) people; it's mostly the greed mongers of the world I don't like.  

... my home is a seaport where my friends' ships occasionally land, 
they refuel with greenery, peace and laughter and then leave again so yes.. I miss them but not my sociality because I'm "mostly a home-body anti-partier" like you just because I work all my life for make of my home the perfect place where the party is with closest friends and mind open to the new one 🥳

Edited by manoji Yachvili
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3 hours ago, Dafadilia Wayfarer said:

I'm just going to jump in here about corsets. Many of the horror stories we hear about Victorian women breaking ribs or deforming their bodies are entirely myth for the most part besides a few strange cases. These excessive cases are the ones you're going to hear about the most of course, but realistically a corset was fitted to a woman's exact form when it was made. Over time it actually shaped itself to her, not the other way around. Clothing style at the time is what made the appearance of a very small waist. I know this because I've done a lot of period sewing and have studied Victorian fashion closely. I'm not going to claim they were comfortable, but they also weren't harmful if used correctly.

There have even been strange stories of women deforming their bodies with corsets today and these are extreme dangerous cases that don't represent the majority. Doctors even prescribe fitted corsets for medical reasons. I know this from experience. I was one of the rare cases born with mild scoliosis. It went untreated until I was adopted so that means horrible chronic pain and back spasms as an adult. This being the case, my doctor prescribed having a corset made to my scoliosis shape for pain relief. It has helped a lot. It all depends on how you use a tool whether it is painful or not. If you abuse it, of course it can be harmful like anything else.

On-topic addendum.  No-one has ever told me they're not good enough for me.  Make of that what you will.

Edited by Garnet Psaltery
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9 hours ago, Dafadilia Wayfarer said:

I'm just going to jump in here about corsets. Many of the horror stories we hear about Victorian women breaking ribs or deforming their bodies are entirely myth for the most part besides a few strange cases. These excessive cases are the ones you're going to hear about the most of course, but realistically a corset was fitted to a woman's exact form when it was made. Over time it actually shaped itself to her, not the other way around. Clothing style at the time is what made the appearance of a very small waist. I know this because I've done a lot of period sewing and have studied Victorian fashion closely. I'm not going to claim they were comfortable, but they also weren't harmful if used correctly.

It is not entirely a myth at all.  Even Scarlet O'Hara speaks about her waist going to 20 inches in the movie "Gone With the Wind" but also in the movie says she wants her waist to be 19 inches.  Twenty inches, she's fat.  It is not a myth at all.  There are almost no women with a 19" waist.  

It was actually Coco Chanel who helped to set women free by designing clothing they could begin to move in.  Prior to Coco Chanel the dresses were a type of prison.   The movie about Coco Chanel touches on this a bit - the making of clothing so women could move around and be active.  

The pictures you can google, type in the words Antique Photographs Victorian Waist.  

vic.jpg

manne.jpg

Edited by FairreLilette
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6 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

On-topic addendum.  No-one has ever told me they're not good enough for me.  Make of that what you will.

It's interesting, I listened to this.  She mentions the movie "Gone With the Wind" in this interview as I have been speaking of as well.  She also does give a size that the women wanted - an 18" waist the ideal and the norm.  As well as speaking how it was difficult to breathe and or move around because the corset was making them short of breath they did not want to be active.

It's well documented through skeletons and there are many articles on corseting and the 18" waist.  That 18 or 19" waist is on their body, not simply because a corset pulled them in.  The corseting deformed their body permanently.  I also said the whale bone corsets broke ribs.  The whale bone corsets were the most popular.  

Again, it was Coco Chanel who was pivotal in the beginning of setting women free.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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52 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It is not entirely a myth at all.  Even Scarlet O'Hara speaks about her waist going to 20 inches in the movie "Gone With the Wind" but also in the movie says she wants her waist to be 19 inches.  Twenty inches, she's fat.  It is not a myth at all.  There are almost no women with a 19" waist.  

It was actually Coco Chanel who helped to set women free by designing clothing they could begin to move in.  Prior to Coco Chanel the dresses were a type of prison.   The movie about Coco Chanel touches on this a bit - the making of clothing so women could move around and be active.  

The pictures you can google, type in the words Antique Photographs Victorian Waist.  

vic.jpg

manne.jpg

I've done the research, but by all means believe how you like. Just because your bias may want something to be true doesn't make it so. Gone with the Wind is a book of fiction written in the 1930s. Also, many photos they are finding have been proven to be fake besides a few strange exceptions. You may want to delve a bit deeper.

I actually go by facts on this subject. I studied the Victorian era for not only my MA, but my doctorate as well. Victorian Literature is my area of specialty and that included covering many subjects within the era including their mode of dress down to the smallest detail since my thesis subject included corsetry. I even made a corset by hand for my thesis presentation following a Victorian pattern. 

I've said all I have to share on the subject. Especially since this really is off topic.

Edited by Dafadilia Wayfarer
Edited to apologize for me contributing to derailing the thread a bit. I apologize.
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12 minutes ago, Dafadilia Wayfarer said:

I've done the research, but by all means believe how you like. Just because your bias may want something to be true doesn't make it so. Gone with the Wind is a book of fiction written in the 1930s. Also, many photos they are finding have been proven to be fake besides a few strange exceptions. You may want to delve a bit deeper.

I actually go by facts on this subject. I studied the Victorian era for not only my MA, but my doctorate as well. Victorian Literature is my area of specialty and that included covering many subjects within the era including their mode of dress down to the smallest detail since my thesis subject included corsetry. I even made a corset by hand for my thesis presentation following a Victorian pattern. 

I've said all I have to share on the subject. Especially since this really is off topic.

Well, you can believe how you want to believe too, though I'd like to know some of your sources other than "Victorian literature", as I have studied and dealt with French and English Victorian and Edwardian antiques for 30 years and it's not fake.  So, talk to your local antique dealers who deal in Victoriana...you may find out more than you knew.  Also, the antiques I've dealt with come directly off the cargo boat from England and France to the Ports of Call in Long Beach.  We got them right off the boats.  It's not fake but believe as you would like.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's not fake

I suggest starting a new topic FairreLilette, as this is interesting. Maybe one named Definitions Of Beauty - Oppression And Benefits. We could include men in the discussion too. I'm terribly busy in RL but would check back in most definitely.

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9 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

@Orwar, are you threatening me with a good time?

   Always! 

   Re: heels & corsets - there's nothing wrong with finding either or both attractive, just as there's nothing wrong with enjoying it when people wear ties or work boots; it's all a matter of taste. You're even entitled to requiring it in a potential partner - though whether you'll find people who accept those terms is another thing entirely.

   I have plenty of friends who like wearing corsets. Not so many friends that like wearing heels. I also know people who love beards and don't find beardless people attractive at all, and people who wouldn't touch anyone with a beard. Personally I'm more of a Doc Marten 1460 kind of guy, but when looking for partners I do tend to start on the other end of a person!

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45 minutes ago, Moondira said:

I suggest starting a new topic FairreLilette, as this is interesting. Maybe one named Definitions Of Beauty - Oppression And Benefits. We could include men in the discussion too. I'm terribly busy in RL but would check back in most definitely.

Perhaps but it really came up as a poster may have been saying Bagnu was bad for perpetrating the stereotype of the sexed up women or the sexed up sex worker or however it was worded.  I do not see SL as the problem that could really hurt women as to me it's just fantasies and, to me, I see aspects of women's attire from the past that make me reflect on things but it can not actually do damage to me to be dressed up "whorish" or "sexed up" or stereotyped or whatever in SL.  I said the exploitation of women in real life is what really has done the damage.  Second Life is fantasy and dress up and stuff many of us would not do in real life, and even sometimes it's role play or a kind of acting.  The damage to women, as far as I am concerned, is real life.  That is how this came up.  As far as discussing other damages to women or men in the name of vanity or a type of imprisonment, I'm not sure I want to start a thread at this time.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 12/17/2020 at 7:47 AM, GoSpeed Racer said:

When someone you like or even admire tells you they are not worthy and are in fact a bad person, believe them. They will ultimately turn on you. I typically try to see the good in everyone I meet, but every so often my naivete gets the best of me. Has this happened to anybody else? 

More often than not when someone says something it's usually the opposite of what they really say so yeah. *****ing loads I've encountered and hey, I mean yeah it's respectable trying to see the good in humans but let's be honest; at our core as a species we're primitive as hell and will do whatever we please as animals. Statically a good percent will turn on someone eventually for whatever reason be it power, money... just general greed... social status you name it. It's happened in such fiendish ways. I consider myself a realist, not a cynical guy or optimist like that. So whatever happens on average wouldn't surprise me knowing this.

Anytime ya see something of the following: "No drama" ovoid it, usually the ones that start it. "I'm a nice person" ovoid it, usually are insufferable sods trying to bring you down to their level over some insecurity they have so they do such things to feel nice about themselves. Whatever. "I love IMs, chat with me" usually are something else. Ovoid it. Can often lead into a trap for their own personal amusement and etc (yeah, I've seen some *****e in my time).

In many ways, having a filled out profile like that is redundant and contradicting. So I leave mine at a minimum and just show my interests and what not and what I normally do. Not how I am as a person when it comes to personality and all of that.

Oh yeah and generally when you find a attraction to someone they usually don't hold the same feeling. There's that... I just let things go as they do and take what in I can like that. Humans, just fickle beings all around half the time.

Technologically we're advanced, mentally we're cave-people. If another sentient race discovered us they'd probably just take our tech for experimenting and leave us be as people and be like: "Eh, let them sort themselves out, they got great loot though for such beings I'll give em' that one".

Edited by Simo Vodopan
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2 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

/me checks her mail for that pic of @Orwarin a kilt and work boots.

   I did take one just earlier today, buuut we aren't allowed to post RL pics on the forums. I can make an SL one later though!

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