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Search Places is Broken


Prokofy Neva
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37 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I can't think of anything more absurd than claiming that paying $30 to appear in search is "not an ad". Of course it's an ad. It's a very cheap and limited one; it's not like a $10,000 classified ad but of course it's still an ad. Um, you pay for it. That's what advertisements ARE.

No it's not an ad. You pay the 30L/week to be included in the search database, that's all. Unlike an ad, you are not paying for it to be seen, so it's not an ad. You can think of it as an advertisement if you like, but it's not.

 

37 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You are ignorant about how search works on the SL viewer and even the other viewers, it's amazing. You pay NOT to be in rentals, which is not even referenced here and is separate, but to be in Places. 

Nope. When you check to be in search, there is no option to choose Places. There is an option to choose Rentals though. In other words, you can't choose Places, which is what I said.

 

37 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's why it says "Show Place in Search $30" right on the "about land" menu. That's because you'll be looked for under Search/Places not "Search/Rentals" -- which requires you checking off the category on your land, a separate function completely.

See above.

 

37 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Long before there was even the "rentals" category, this is how it worked,

That's irrelevant.

 

37 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've made no claims whatsoever about buying key words or phrases, that is not even the discussion here.

From post #1 (my bolding):-

On 12/14/2020 at 9:06 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

The $30 search/places ad is merely to show up in a search with a term on search/places.

 

The rest of your post isn't worthy of any reply, so I won't bother.

I'm sorry that you've misunderstood some things about search. As I said, I don't doubt that something has changed that caused you to start this thread, so I'm not disagreeing with you about that. I'm merely pointing out some mistakes you made.

 

Edited by Phil Deakins
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28 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

No it's not an ad. You pay the 30L/week to be included in the search database, that's all. Unlike an ad, you are not paying for it to be seen, so it's not an ad. You can think of it as an advertisement if you like, but it's not.

 

Nope. When you check to be in search, there is no option to choose Places. There is an option to choose Rentals though. In other words, you can't choose Places, which is what I said.

 

See above.

 

That's irrelevant.

 

From post #1 (my bolding):-

 

The rest of your post isn't worthy of any reply, so I won't bother.

I'm sorry that you've misunderstood some things about search. As I said, I don't doubt that something has changed that caused you to start this thread, so I'm not disagreeing with you about that. I'm merely pointing out some mistakes you made.

 

I think not only Lindens, but any other reasonably intelligent observer of the viewer could set you straight on this.

The reason there isn't an "option to put it in search/places" is because...that's the default. That's it. That's the ad. And it is an ad. Paying to show up in search is ADVERTISING.

Proof of this is very simple. A parcel NOT put in rentals, not put in the category "rentals" but some other category, like "arts and culture" or "hangout" or "shopping" will show up in search/places after the box is checked off anyway, on the term "Ravenglass Rentals". The categories are irrelevant and default to "all" in using search/places.

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I'd be interested to hear from developers of Firestorm and Alchemy as to why they left in the Legacy search.

And likely the answer is: because it is better.

I bet even some Lindens are confused about the categories like "rentals" and the search box with land for sale or rent, and search/places. They are not connected. In fact, they may have become broken by being connected.

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Here the Lindens explain this, proving Phil wrong (and indicating a reason why his reliance on traffic bots and ignorance of this fact may have cost him real sales).

The Lindens explain how search works in their Knowledge Base.
Now their warning:

Warning: There is a L$30 per week fee to show your parcel in search. Parcels must be at least 128 square meters in order to appear in the All Results or Places search. Do not spend L$30 to list parcels smaller than 128 square meters, since they won't be listed!

Note how they say IN ORDER TO APPEAR IN THE ALL RESULTS OR PLACES SEARCH.

Hello!

BTW, here's a link to the thread about how it was broken two years ago, and was fixed, much faster than it is being fixed now.

 

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@Prokofy Neva

Please yourself. I was just trying to be helpful by pointing out a few mistakes that you made. I'm not going to 'get into it' with you. You are perfectly free to think what you want to think. I am sure that we all know what an advertisement actually is, so I won't pursue it.


I let this ride when you posted it, but you do seem to be intent on continually stating untruths about me personally, so....

16 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Likely you never put your store in search/places which is why you didn't get visits.

I realize you are still pouting over the Lindens removal of traffic bots.

Why would I have used traffic bots if I hadn't put my store in search, eh? 😄  (A little thought before writing can be beneficial ;) )

I was the search expert at the time and I taught the forum how to do well in search. You would have known that back then, and you probably benefited from my expertise, but if you didn't know, it's all still there in the archives. Then, after the traffic bots had gone, I controlled the search results in my field. The top 10 anyway. I put places in the top 10 without the place-owners knowing I was doing it, and I dropped places out of the top 10 so that, no matter what they did, they couldn't get up there. And my store got so many visits that I took between 4000 and 5000 US$ out of SL, and into my bank, each and every month. That's quite some going if, as you said, my store didn't get visits, don't you think? LOL

Yes, the banning of gaming traffic was a disappointment. But that was how long ago? 10 or more years? And you think that I would still be pouting about it ? lol - especially after having left SL for a couple of years? Realistic thinking can sometimes be your friend if you allow it to be ;)

 

15 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

... and indicating a reason why his reliance on traffic bots and ignorance of this fact may have cost him real sales

may have cost me real sales? Actually, the banning of traffic bots might well have prevented me from getting some sales, but my store was so well established by then that it probably didn't make a big difference. It was a shame really, because that particular traffic bots system that I created was such a joy to watch operating, AND I'd just put the finishing touches to it the day before the ban was announced. So I was never ignorant of the sort of facts that you pointed to, but you may be right about the loss of the bots costing some sales.

Anyway, I tried to be helpful and you didn't want it,. That's alright, and I wish you a Happy New Year just the same :D

Edited by Phil Deakins
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6 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Prokofy Neva

Please yourself. I was just trying to be helpful by pointing out a few mistakes that you made. I'm not going to 'get into it' with you. You are perfectly free to think what you want to think. I am sure that we all know what an advertisement actually is, so I won't pursue it.


I let this ride when you posted it, but you do seem to be intent on continually stating untruths about me personally, so....

Why would I have used traffic bots if I hadn't put my store in search, eh? 😄  (A little thought before writing can be beneficial ;) )

I was the search expert at the time and I taught the forum how to do well in search. You would have known that back then, and you probably benefited from my expertise, but if you didn't know, it's all still there in the archives. Then, after the traffic bots had gone, I controlled the search results in my field. The top 10 anyway. I put places in the top 10 without the place-owners knowing I was doing it, and I dropped places out of the top 10 so that, no matter what they did, they couldn't get up there. And my store got so many visits that I took between 4000 and 5000 US$ out of SL, and into my bank, each and every month. That's quite some going if, as you said, my store didn't get visits, don't you think? LOL

Yes, the banning of gaming traffic was a disappointment. But that was how long ago? 10 or more years? And you think that I would still be pouting about it ? lol - especially after having left SL for a couple of years? Realistic thinking can sometimes be your friend if you allow it to be ;)

 

may have cost me real sales? Actually, the banning of traffic bots might well have prevented me from getting some sales, but my store was so well established by then that it probably didn't make a big difference. It was a shame really, because that particular traffic bots system that I created was such a joy to watch operating, AND I'd just put the finishing touches to it the day before the ban was announced. So I was never ignorant of the sort of facts that you pointed to, but you may be right about the loss of the bots costing some sales.

Anyway, I tried to be helpful and you didn't want it,. That's alright, and I wish you a Happy New Year just the same :D

I see this is the best we're going to get for your admission of your error.

Um, no. I didn't "benefit from your expertise" because...I didn't wish to use traffic bots and gimmicks. I wasn't obsessed with search and still am not as a sales tool. It's more of a management tool for me.

If you "took $5000 out of SL" every month, you didn't pay yourself for your time, like so many, and it was not a sustainable proposition, building low-prim sex furniture in a world which changes constantly and went to mesh. Oh, well. Because you couldn't keep doing that, and then left SL, and today only "socialize" and crab on the forums. For some people that *is* the game. 

Trying to correct people's "errors" when in fact they aren't errors isn't help. 

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17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I see this is the best we're going to get for your admission of your error.

No errors on my part, sorry. If you think there are some, please point them out. Or perhaps you mean that even correcting your mistakes was an error. If that's the case, then yes, I made an error lol.
 

17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Um, no. I didn't "benefit from your expertise" because...I didn't wish to use traffic bots and gimmicks. I wasn't obsessed with search and still am not as a sales tool. It's more of a management tool for me.

You didn't understand. My teaching of the forum how to do well in search was nothing to do with traffic bots. It was after that era. It was all about the GSA. You may have benefited from my expertise back then.

 

17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

If you "took $5000 out of SL" every month, you didn't pay yourself for your time, like so many, and it was not a sustainable proposition, building low-prim sex furniture in a world which changes constantly and went to mesh. Oh, well. Because you couldn't keep doing that, and then left SL, and today only "socialize" and crab on the forums. For some people that *is* the game. 

Didn't pay myself for my time? The money I took out went to me - to my RL bank account - so how else could I pay myself for my time? Pay it to Phil Deakins in L$? (a) I already had it, and (b) to do what with? If taking it out of SL and putting it in my bank account isn't paying me, how else could I pay me? It wasn't my RL livelihood. It was just a hobby. The money I earned was not expected, or aimed at, and genuinely wasn't actually wanted, although I wasn't daft enough to turn it off. I unintentionally blundered into it. But it was very sustainable, and still is, as you know all too well. FYI, I started the store in 2007. I left SL is 2018. Does that sound like it was so unsustainable that I ended up leaving? lol. As I said in my previous post, realistic thinking can sometimes be your friend if you allow it to be.

 

17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Trying to correct people's "errors" when in fact they aren't errors isn't help. 

I didn't correct errors that weren't errors. I only corrected those that were errors. I thought I was being helpful. What an idiot! lol

 

Edited by Phil Deakins
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On 12/21/2020 at 3:01 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

I think it's a failure of the Google search appliance within SL.

LL ditched the Google Search Appliance many years ago, and moved on to a free Apache alternative - unless they've also changed from that one.


Anyway...

I agree with you that the web search is not producing the results that would be expected. I haven't looked at it in many years, but what I'm seeing since reading your thread is decidedly not right. Some examples:-

1. A search on my name, doesn't list me at all under People or Everything, even though I've been set to show in search since I came back around March. Or if it does list me, it's so far down the list that I didn't bother looking any further.

2. l know that the traffic shown in About Land is nothing like the traffic stated in the search results. (that's the legacy search)

3. My parcel has been set to show in search for at least 6 months. It doesn't show at all in the web search. Even entering its exact name doesn't show it. I've been paying the 30L all this time but I never looked to see if it showed there. It does show in the legacy search though.

It's tempting to think that, for the web search, we are seeing results from and old database, as you suggested earlier in the thread. Even so, my avatar should still be listed. There is no reason for it not to be. Some of my bots are listed because the text in their profiles mentions me, and they haven't been logged in for many years.

Something else. I don't know if I've misunderstood something you wrote, but a search on Ravenglass Rentals should produce a great many results - probably thousands. Those with Ravenglass Rentals at the start of their names, as yours are, ought to be listed first, but all places with the word 'rentals' in their names, descriptions, and pages, should also be listed, and possibly those with 'rental' as well, depending on the quality of the search system, .

 

Edited by Phil Deakins
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