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11 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I'd love to know who asked for this s*itstorm.  It sure wasn't anyone I know.  LL could have worked on their viewer to implement things from firestorm instead of features that NO ONE ASKED FOR.

If you think EEP is a s*itstorm, wait until you see what they are going to do with terrain & sim "surrounds".

That is coming and with elevated priority at the whim on one particular developer.

Priority over dozens of more important things that would make SL/content operate more efficiently.

Priority over requests filed by actual users. Many users, over many years.

Edited by Lucia Nightfire
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I am too lazy at this time of year to import/adjust/debug fps/whatever just to see on screen using an EEP client what i can instantly see by simply logging in with a Windlight client. So no EEP for me. Problem solved and tbh not missing any fancy EEP features at all.

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1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

If you think EEP is a s*itstorm, wait until you see what they are going to do with terrain & sim "surrounds".

That is coming and with elevated priority at the whim on one particular developer.

Priority over dozens of more important things that would make SL/content operate more efficiently.

Priority over requests filed by actual users. Many users, over many years.

Oh? Care to elaborate?

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22 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

... and tbh not missing any fancy EEP features at all.

That's because practically nobody uses them yet, instead just using EEP as a Windlight replacement when it's so much more. And that was because Firestorm didn't have EEP in their main release until now and, for better or worse, until Firestorm blesses a feature, only the intrepid few even know it exists.

Back in 2007 when the Lab bought Windlight from Windmark Interactive and integrated it with the viewer, it was despised by the vast majority of users. Every build on the grid looked dramatically different, "breaking content" left and right. I also remember sitting in Torley's office while he explained how Windlight assets soon would be traded among users just like any other product, it was only a matter of a developer having a week or so to work on it. And now it's thirteen years later.

I wonder... by far the coolest stuff you can do with EEP requires that the user agree to an Experience -- and that's a big scary hurdle for some folks (even though, actually, Experiences are the only permissions you can truly disable, and effortlessly at that). So I wonder if LL should develop a simple scripted interface to EEP using a uniform grid-scoped Experience to which anyone can grant permission as long as they're up for seeing scripted EEP effects, confident that doing so will exercise none of the other permissions that come with Experiences. (A rough analog here is the AVsitter Experience which has become the defacto "go ahead and attach props, don't bug me and clutter up my inventory anymore" permission, reasonably ubiquitous despite being crippled by land scope.)

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am now waiting for some TPV to put Linden V1 Retro Lighting back in as a option for all them what wants to make Second Life Real Again

annnd never render anything mesh or sculpties. Just render avatar shapes and layers and prims like in olden days Real Second Life

😸

 

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9 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I don't mind change.  The recent move to the cloud and BOM were 2 examples.  Each implemented to make our SL experience better and so far, they have.  What makes no sense whatsoever is implementing a change that they KNEW would decrease performance.  Someone explain to me how that type of change is good for anyone.  As far as I'm concerned, I won't be using eep until they drag me kicking and screaming.  

The move to the cloud hasn't affected me, and I don't use BOM so neither one of those bother me, but when a change causes someone to not be able to use an item that they paid money for is ridiculous. *giggles at kicking and screaming* and I don't blame you one bit, IF I knew and understood how to use a previous release after they shut it down, I would go back, but I don't understand techy stuff like that so I'll deal with all the inconveniences this release has caused so many people and I will be filing that jira, I just don't know how much good it will do because as far as I know it's just one game....*sighs*

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

by far the coolest stuff you can do with EEP requires that the user agree to an Experience

I am sure many other users will enjoy it but personally my Experiences list is empty. My usual SL activity is to login with my favorite custom windlight which makes everything bright and clear when i walk around/chat with friends/listen to SL singers and when in the mood to take a photo i just try some fancy winlights put a couple of prim lights, make a few adjustments, take the photo and log out. So for the way i personally use SL, good old windlight is more than enough.

 
(I don't mind the new features, just rarely find them interesting until someday i might do (or not at all). For example plenty of users have BOM heads etc right now, i still use my old 2016 Catwa Daniel head + an old TMP Deluxe body from 2012. Had a look at a few new stuff like the Lelutka gift head 2 days ago and then tossed it in the Trash not because it's not nice and cool etc, just not really fascinated.)
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14 hours ago, PermaRuthed said:

Pffffft. What's wrong with Midday?

 

Exactly - I use Midday instead of Shared Environments most of the time and enable Shared Environments, when visiting a beautiful sim, or if it asked by say a themed sim or taking photos. Shopping events/popular clubs, use old Midday/Sunrise/Sunset/Midnight.

Performance drop, yes I accept the lower 4-5 FPS for the amazing night sky with for example alternative Moon/Sun.

The Environmental Enhancement Project Skies ain't falling! It is not forced upon us, but an option - and quite clever made, and I was also was very skeptical in the beginning, but sold now.

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Just my two cents worth, but FS forcing an EEP version after telling us they wouldn't and that it would remain optional, is reaching a whole new kind of low.

I installed it - instantly regretted it - now cant revert back to the previous version because its overwritten everything and wont let me.

Its time-wasting, hideous and an fps hog; fps was upwards of 60 at home, but now struggles to reach 15. At home!  With no one else around!

Buh-bye sim photography - really the only reason I had for staying in SL; I dont do clubs, vanity photography gets really old really fast fast - and the thought of learning Blender for any reason other than self-punishment summons forth The Mother of all Migraines. 

Geeks and nerds; they've just got to be startin' somethin' to ruin everyone's day, don't they?  

 

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15 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

Just my two cents worth, but FS forcing an EEP version after telling us they wouldn't and that it would remain optional, is reaching a whole new kind of low.

I installed it - instantly regretted it - now cant revert back to the previous version because its overwritten everything and wont let me.

Its time-wasting, hideous and an fps hog; fps was upwards of 60 at home, but now struggles to reach 15. At home!  With no one else around!

Buh-bye sim photography - really the only reason I had for staying in SL; I dont do clubs, vanity photography gets really old really fast fast - and the thought of learning Blender for any reason other than self-punishment summons forth The Mother of all Migraines. 

Geeks and nerds; they've just got to be startin' somethin' to ruin everyone's day, don't they?  

 

FS really has no choice but to issue an EEP viewer. Third party viewers as far as I know are required to maintain features in their viewers that LL sets forth. Its mandatory more or less. You didn't have to update and can use the current EEP and 2 FS releases prior until they have another update and the oldest one is blocked, etc.  

I don't know why so many are seeming to have fps issues with it. I am having the exact opposite -much higher fps and I am not running a very high end setup. i5-9400 with a 4gb GTX 1650 Super , 16gb of ram. 250+fps on empty sims and around 100 on sims at high settings, ALM on no shadows. 

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  1. The update was not "forced" at all and if you'd made proper backups you'd not be having much of an issue
  2. The primary culprit for the FPS drop appears to be a "fix" implemented for Water reflections - a "fix" that can be turned off in your settings, see my earlier response with a link to the relevant forum post
  3. The Firestorm team had rather little choice in polishing up and releasing an EEP enabled viewer - fuss at Linden Lab for that feature set.
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Just now, Gage Wirefly said:

FS really has no choice but to issue an EEP viewer. Third party viewers as far as I know are required to maintain features in their viewers that LL sets forth. Its mandatory more or less. You didn't have to update and can use the current EEP and 2 FS releases prior until they have another update and the oldest one is blocked, etc.  

I don't know why so many are seeming to have fps issues with it. I am having the exact opposite -much higher fps and I am not running a very high end setup. i5-9400 with a 4gb GTX 1650 Super , 16gb of ram. 250+fps on empty sims and around 100 on sims at high settings, ALM on no shadows. 

Yes, but thats not the issue though.

The issue is that they originally said a few months or so ago that they wouldn't force it on us - that basically the option to use either the normal FS viewer or one with EEP (the Beta one, I assume) would remain in place.

Im glad your fps has increased though. Mine hasn't but that isn't the only problem. Its difficult to log out (as in, it just wont, it freezes instead) and the viewer often randomly seizes up for several seconds at a time.

I guess its not that big a deal really. SL isnt a must-have in my life really. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

Yes, but thats not the issue though.

The issue is that they originally said a few months or so ago that they wouldn't force it on us - that basically the option to use either the normal FS viewer or one with EEP (the Beta one, I assume) would remain in place.

Im glad your fps has increased though. Mine hasn't but that isn't the only problem. Its difficult to log out (as in, it just wont, it freezes instead) and the viewer often randomly seizes up for several seconds at a time.

I guess its not that big a deal really. SL isnt a must-have in my life really. 

 

Was not always the case with the fps issue . I was in the testing group and the first couple of test viewers definitely had severe issues with fps drops where water rendering was concerned and in general.  It could be something as simple as completely resetting the viewer and then instead of backing up from settings, just set things manually to see if that helps. 

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5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
  1. The update was not "forced" at all and if you'd made proper backups you'd not be having much of an issue
  2. The primary culprit for the FPS drop appears to be a "fix" implemented for Water reflections - a "fix" that can be turned off in your settings, see my earlier response with a link to the relevant forum post
  3. The Firestorm team had rather little choice in polishing up and releasing an EEP enabled viewer - fuss at Linden Lab for that feature set.

1. I regularly back up FS. That did exactly nothing.

2. No idea. Havent had time yet to chase my tail looking up technicalities so will have to take your word for it.

3. Again, I dont have a problem with FS or anyone else doing the eep dance. They originally said we would have the option - which I took to mean either use the beta version with eep or the regular version without it.

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3 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Was not always the case with the fps issue . I was in the testing group and the first couple of test viewers definitely had severe issues with fps drops where water rendering was concerned and in general.  It could be something as simple as completely resetting the viewer and then instead of backing up from settings, just set things manually to see if that helps. 

Will have to check that when I log in next. I did find that turning off atmospheric shaders gave some fps back, but not much and not for very long, so its probably the water thing, as you said.

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2 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

1. I regularly back up FS. That did exactly nothing.

2. No idea. Havent had time yet to chase my tail looking up technicalities so will have to take your word for it.

3. Again, I dont have a problem with FS or anyone else doing the eep dance. They originally said we would have the option - which I took to mean either use the beta version with eep or the regular version without it.

Backing up your settings means nothing in this instance. The entire viewer/install folder is what I backed up as a precaution and is a precaution I always take when such a major update comes.

Meh - either way, you're apparently stuck now.

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46 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

Just my two cents worth, but FS forcing an EEP version after telling us they wouldn't and that it would remain optional, is reaching a whole new kind of low.

I installed it - instantly regretted it - now cant revert back to the previous version because its overwritten everything and wont let me.

Its time-wasting, hideous and an fps hog; fps was upwards of 60 at home, but now struggles to reach 15. At home!  With no one else around!

Buh-bye sim photography - really the only reason I had for staying in SL; I dont do clubs, vanity photography gets really old really fast fast - and the thought of learning Blender for any reason other than self-punishment summons forth The Mother of all Migraines. 

Geeks and nerds; they've just got to be startin' somethin' to ruin everyone's day, don't they?  

 

You can always uninstall the viewer and then install a previous version like everyone else does.

 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install

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24 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

Yes, but thats not the issue though.

The issue is that they originally said a few months or so ago that they wouldn't force it on us - that basically the option to use either the normal FS viewer or one with EEP (the Beta one, I assume) would remain in place.

Im glad your fps has increased though. Mine hasn't but that isn't the only problem. Its difficult to log out (as in, it just wont, it freezes instead) and the viewer often randomly seizes up for several seconds at a time.

I guess its not that big a deal really. SL isnt a must-have in my life really. 

 

I'm not using the FS EEP viewer. It was NOT forced on anyone. I'm still on 6.3.9 and just now logged in with it.

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12 minutes ago, Kia Kiyori said:

I had actually done that. The result was the new viewer has taken over.

I only look dumb, but thanks anyway.

Then you didn't do a full clean install. And likely didn't run cleanup afterwards or run a registry clean, much less defragged. Oh well. Enjoy your new EEP viewer. I'm sticking with my 6.3.9.

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Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

I'm not using the FS EEP viewer. It was NOT forced on anyone. I'm still on 6.3.9 and just now logged in with it.

Not sure you read what I wrote, but its late and Im too tired to keep explaining.

In any event, who has the time for all of that hassle and drama?? I can only wish I had the luxury of that kind of time to waste!

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