Respect for private property and privacy.

[Phil Deakins]

26 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

ETA: To stay on topic, I guess I should ponder putting a fence around this area, for security purposes? :::still smiling sweetly:::

hehe. No need to. I tried it and landed somewhere where the chair was nowhere to be seen.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Phil Deakins

[Seicher Rae]

55 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If the owner (or creator) of the chair sits in it are they orbited as well? Along with Seicher's adjustment, I'm thinking some soul living in Belli would want to be able to sit in the chair so that others see them sitting there, enjoying their little environment that is so appealing others want to sit there, too. 😇

Yes. I catapulted myself several times.   (I love free falling in SL) 

[Seicher Rae]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

hehe. need anyway. I tried it and landed somewhere where the chair was nowhere to be seen.

From how I understand the way the script works, once at altitude the chair disappears. Hopefully you landed (if you completed the fall) in a water area in a place where the privacy lines are not in effect. ♥

[Phil Deakins]

LOL thank you LOL

It was 5 badges but I had to change it because one of them was rescinded. More than one of them should never have been issued anyway.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

From how I understand the way the script works, once at altitude the chair disappears. Hopefully you landed (if you completed the fall) in a water area in a place where the privacy lines are not in effect. ♥

Yes - all the way down and into a watery area. and the lines were only visible when I moved along, so they weren't in the way at all.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Phil Deakins

[Seicher Rae]

Security fencing installed. We're talking high and heavy "stay out" kind of mean fencing. NO ONE will be able to penetrate these privacy measures. EVER!

Bwahahahahaha.

I'm thinking about putting a "welcome" sign over the whole build.

[TT120]

I have a plot of land I do test builds on and when I'm between builds, I set a single chair and an old TV that shows pics of old I Love Lucy shows right in the middle.  This is going to be perfect for that.

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If the owner (or creator) of the chair sits in it are they orbited as well? Along with Seicher's adjustment, I'm thinking some soul living in Belli would want to be able to sit in the chair so that others see them sitting there, enjoying their little environment that is so appealing others want to sit there, too. 😇

the script can be modded to check on CHANGED_LINK for avatar. Like llAvatarOnSitTarget() ==  llGetOwner(), == llSameGroup() or == member of whitelist then the chair doesn't orbit, and it behaves as an ordinary chair

and then as you say, a further mod is that you are sitting on your chair, being all sweet like honey in a pot, and some passing rando sits on the chair next to you. The script then llUnsit() owner, same group, whitelist people so they stay next to the chair and it orbits the rando

[kali Wylder]

Would you think less of me if I admitted that at one time early in my second life, my first partner and I used to get a big kick out of breaking and entering.  Well not breaking, but entering.  I never meant to cause any harm and I would not do it if I could see that people were home. It was harmless fun, reminded me of the way it felt to be a rebellious teenager. The fear of being caught in flagrante was part of the thrill.

[So Whimsy]

Hmm, I always thought that if there is no banlines and Security Orb threatening me, a parcel is fair game to check out.

On the contrary, my home is open to all as long as people don't do the vertical tango in my bedroom while I'm sitting in the living room.

[Mollymews]

3 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

i like that you put in a great big sign.  It helps shows that getting orbited can be a fun thing when set up well

[Tari Landar]

53 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

Would you think less of me if I admitted that at one time early in my second life, my first partner and I used to get a big kick out of breaking and entering.  Well not breaking, but entering.  I never meant to cause any harm and I would not do it if I could see that people were home. It was harmless fun, reminded me of the way it felt to be a rebellious teenager. The fear of being caught in flagrante was part of the thrill.

I wouldn't think less at all, specially considering I would imagine if someone asked you not to, or to leave, you would, even if perhaps (probably) laughing your asses off. 

Then again, we used to have frequent guests meander into our home at random, and it never really bothered me (I am not judging those that it would bother, however, different strokes and all that). In some cases I am quite positive that the location used to either be their home or a place they'd been to before it was our home. 

I can't tell you how many times I'd log in and find people mid-whatever the heck they were doing, on my furniture, in my house, or somewhere else on the property. I used to rez out a box that handed out shamwows (well, they were towels that attached to your hand, some of them animated with a wiping animation, lmao). and let them know they were free to enjoy but if they could clean up after themselves, I'd appreciate it. Or, I'd just hand them the attachable and say nothing at all, except "smiles" in local, lmao. Sometimes I'd stand there to see if that alone would scare them off, sometimes it did, most times, it did not. Sometimes I'd chat them up in local, most people don't respond, but it's funny to know they were probably squirming at the mere thought I'd interrupt their special time. Sometimes I'd wander off to another room and pretend to be busy doing other things while chatting them (or not, depending on my mood). 

Once I had a couple stay put right where they were doing, what they were doing, emoted out cleaning the house with the occasional "don't mind me", changed my clothes, pretended to have a phone convo, sat down to read a book, fed my pets, took care of my prim kids, etc.... all in all the whole interaction lasted a good almost two hours. It was rather amusing for me. When they were finished I got a "thanks" in local and they wooshed off somewhere else.

That same couple visited quite a few more times (most without me there, I just had a visitor thing out that I could check on whenever I wanted, or would email me), and it was because of them I put random tip jars out around my property and ended up making a decent chunk of change from random visitors. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

the script can be modded to check on CHANGED_LINK for avatar. Like llAvatarOnSitTarget() ==  llGetOwner(), == llSameGroup() or == member of whitelist then the chair doesn't orbit, and it behaves as an ordinary chair

and then as you say, a further mod is that you are sitting on your chair, being all sweet like honey in a pot, and some passing rando sits on the chair next to you. The script then llUnsit() owner, same group, whitelist people so they stay next to the chair and it orbits the rando

I love you for this but I can't script my way out of a wet paper bag. I'm slightly drain bamaged. lol

[Mudbug227]

To be absolutely fair, speaking as a newbie, there is next to nothing in the new user orientation on how to tell what is private land. The learning curve on this is really steep, and I wasn’t even aware there was an issue until I was mentioned as an interloper at a place I wound up at.   I have teleported several times to an interesting destination only to find no one there... so I start flying around looking for someone — ANYONE— to interact with. I guess that puts me near someone’s private property but I have no way of knowing. So if you don’t want accidental visitors you need to designate it as private property. Or have LL figure out a way to exclude non-guests. 

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, Mudbug227 said:

I guess that puts me near someone’s private property but I have no way of knowing. So if you don’t want accidental visitors you need to designate it as private property. Or have LL figure out a way to exclude non-guests. 

The counter to that is that Second Life is very much like RL.  Every bit of land is owned by someone. In my everyday life, I would never dream of just wandering into an interesting house unless there were some sort of welcoming sign to tell me that it was OK. Everything is assumed to be private land unless you're told otherwise.  That's what we teach children from the time they are old enough to start walking.  The only places in SL that are public are LDPW properties -- games, parks, and places like the open ocean and roadways -- the same sorts of places you might expect to be public in RL.

[MoiraKathleen]

7 minutes ago, Mudbug227 said:

To be absolutely fair, speaking as a newbie, there is next to nothing in the new user orientation on how to tell what is private land. The learning curve on this is really steep, and I wasn’t even aware there was an issue until I was mentioned as an interloper at a place I wound up at.   I have teleported several times to an interesting destination only to find no one there... so I start flying around looking for someone — ANYONE— to interact with. I guess that puts me near someone’s private property but I have no way of knowing. So if you don’t want accidental visitors you need to designate it as private property. Or have LL figure out a way to exclude non-guests. 

Whoever owns the area has several different ways already, of excluding guests, if that is what they want to do.  In an area where part is meant for the public and part isn't, it is more difficult.

In general, when I TP into a destination,  I look for information signs at the landing point, or at the very least, bring up the "About Land" window in the viewer and read any description that is there about the land.  It will often mention if the entire area is open for visitors to explore around, or if there are rentals that you should stay out of and respect the privacy of the yard around the houses, etc.  If I can't tell, I generally will explore around, but tend to stay along paths or roads or open spaces, and stay out of buildings with closed doors, and stay out of houses that I might encounter.

On mainland continents and Linden Home areas, you can tell whether the land is LL public owned land or not by bringing up the "About Land" window and checking the owner.  In general, in those spaces, almost all roads and some waterways are public. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

The counter to that is that Second Life is very much like RL.

In that sense though, it is very different from many of the games that people play before coming to SL.  I came from the background of playing a lot of Myst-like games and in those games, everything is public and you actually need to explore everything.

Even though I knew SL was not a Myst-like game, it still wasn't until I encountered my first security orb that I learned that SL was definitely different in the "public places" aspect.

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

n that sense though, it is very different from many of the games that people play before coming to SL.  I came from the background of playing a lot of Myst-like games and in those games, everything is public and you actually need to explore everything.

That's very true, Lil.  It's reflected in the fact that the first question from an impressive number of newcomers is "How do I play this game?" We joke about how many of us give the knee-jerk response, "It's not a game!", but that expectation really is at the heart of this privacy issue. 

The most honest way to think about Second Life is to see it as a vacation world -- another world like the one we spend most of our lives in, except that we can fly.  Like RL, it's a place to own a business and build a house, dress up and go dancing or attend a musical event,  ride a motorcycle on winding roads or a sailboat on the high seas, or just veg out and talk with friends. When we go on vacation, we relax but we don't forget the rules of home.  We discover things that we are too inhibited to do or are physically incapable of doing at home, but part of the appeal is that a lot of the vacation world is familiar. We can push the limits of our comfort zone, but many of the things we do are things that we see real people doing at home all the time. And that includes things that our parents taught us about sharing and about respect for each other's personal space.

As you point out, the tension comes because some people do come to SL with a gaming background, expecting SL to play by gaming rules instead of RL ones.  Many of them figure out where they have arrived and join the party in progress. Others follow the wrong rules. They either get in trouble or they become embarrassed or frustrated and leave. We and LL need to be clearer about what SL is, and we shouldn't be surprised that some newbies just won't get it.  SL is not for everybody.  At the same time, newbies ought to take a deep breath and spend some time looking around to figure out where they have landed instead of assuming that SL is just another game.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Rolig Loon

[Mudbug227]

Hmmm... a place where one can pretend to be a vampire or an animal, you can fly, you can teleport, etc. If they don't want people to view it as a game they might want to consider making that more abundantly clear.

[Rolig Loon]

That's a decent point, but consider what most people do in SL as vampires or animals or robots or whatever.  Except for those people who are into roleplay, those are cool costumes.  They are still doing familiar things .. dancing, going to concerts, hanging out with friends.  They aren't mostly playing games.  And although flying and teleporting are definitely cool, they are really just ways of getting from one place to another.  They are sort of like riding a camel on your RL vacation .... fun but not exactly a game.  Just an exotic way to get around while you are on vacation.  There are definitely game-like elements in SL, and you can go to places in world to play actual games.  That's not what most residents are doing most of the time, though.  They're doing pretty ordinary relaxing people things.  Buying clothes, decorating a house, sailing, taking photos, gawking at the scenery ......

[RangiUtu]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:57 AM, Miller Thor said:

How clearly do you actually have to mark private property than with a garden fence all around, a post box on the door and everything else that makes a private property recognizable even for the blindest hen? Almost every day idiots manage to make themselves unpopular with us by breaking into private houses that are more than clearly recognizable as such. Just as numerous morons manage to make themselves unpopular by messing with other people's vehicles for them and trying to use them without permission. The icing on the cake are those weak mates who break into houses where the owners are in them and say "Hello, there I am". Unfortunately, the banned list only has 500 entries free to shut out such idiots. With the best of intentions, Second Life does not mean losing respect for private property. In my opinion, respect for private property and the right to privacy should be very much incorporated into the Community Standards and TOS of Linden Labs and specially emphasized.

Groups were originally for land use and restrictions. You don't need obnoxious orbs. Simply make a different group for the private parcel residents. Set those parcels to group only. Give paying residents perms to invite friends to the group. No more invaders. Easy peasy.

Edited December 15, 2020 by RangiUtu