Respect for private property and privacy.

[Miller Thor]

How clearly do you actually have to mark private property than with a garden fence all around, a post box on the door and everything else that makes a private property recognizable even for the blindest hen? Almost every day idiots manage to make themselves unpopular with us by breaking into private houses that are more than clearly recognizable as such. Just as numerous morons manage to make themselves unpopular by messing with other people's vehicles for them and trying to use them without permission. The icing on the cake are those weak mates who break into houses where the owners are in them and say "Hello, there I am". Unfortunately, the banned list only has 500 entries free to shut out such idiots. With the best of intentions, Second Life does not mean losing respect for private property. In my opinion, respect for private property and the right to privacy should be very much incorporated into the Community Standards and TOS of Linden Labs and specially emphasized.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Miller Thor

[Cinos Field]

Not to be a contrarian, but if you have over 500 people who waltz into your SL home, I'm thinking it's not clearly designated as private. Over some 14 years of owning a virtual home I've had maybe a handful of surprise visitors.

There is always the option of just restricting access if it's that important and you find no other way of making it obvious.

 

 

[Annie Nova]

1 minute ago, Cinos Field said:

Not to be a contrarian, but if you have over 500 people who waltz into your SL home, I'm thinking it's not clearly designated as private. Over some 14 years of owning a virtual home I've had maybe a handful of surprise visitors.

There is always the option of just restricting access if it's that important and you find no other way of making it obvious.

 

 

Or buy a security orb

[Miller Thor]

The thing is that we have the two regions open to the public, but we have also allocated several plots of land as private land, which are also very well recognizable as such. Precisely through garden fences and other things that make every normal-thinking person understand that the small piece of land is a private property. The problem seems to be that unfortunately too many turn off the brain as soon as they start SL and thus also lose the respect and manners. 
No one can tell me that the property in the photo cannot be recognized as a private property and should respect it as such. 
It's all about the principle and accepting something and not saying 'that's just SL, I'm doing what I want' . Here, too, there are rules of coexistence, decency and respect. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Miller Thor

[Blush Bravin]

7 minutes ago, Miller Thor said:

The thing is that we have the two regions open to the public, but we have also allocated several plots of land as private land, which are also very well recognizable as such. Precisely through garden fences and other things that make every normal-thinking person understand that the small piece of land is a private property. The problem seems to be that unfortunately too many turn off the brain as soon as they start SL and thus also lose the respect and manners. 
No one can tell me that the property in the photo cannot be recognized as a private property and should respect it as such.

If you have the rest of the land set up to welcome visitors, then I wouldn't see the fencing in this situation as a barrier but simply as decoration. Many site seeing regions have fencing set up but not as a means of blocking entry. Here is SL it's not always easy to read the signs unless it actually is a sign that says,  "Private Property .. Do not enter."

[Qie Niangao]

3 minutes ago, Miller Thor said:

No one can tell me that the property in the photo cannot be recognized as a private property and should respect it as such.

Yeah, maybe, but no one can tell me I can't decorate property in the same way and make it an open-to-the-public immersive display of what privacy might look like.

People come to SL with different expectations. Those of us who see it as a huge grid of 3D web pages have a really hard time understanding how anybody could want "privacy" role play on the platform. I try not to call them "morons" and "idiots" though.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

46 minutes ago, Miller Thor said:

Unfortunately, the banned list only has 500 entries free to shut out such idiots.

In such a situation I'd set certain parcels to group-access only, it saves all the tedium of ban-lists. It would of course mean house-owners would have to get visitors into the group but that seems preferable to the situation you've described.

 

ETA, suddenly thought I'm not sure you can control access to parcels by group, only rezzing, scripts and object-entry? Not in-world to check right now.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Nova Convair]

You and others treat SL like RL. That's ok. But you think others have to see it the same way. That's a complete wrong expectation. 😁
 Others see it as a game and think others have to see it that way. Definitely a wrong expectation. 😁
There are people that respect nothing. In RL they get punished or shot, so they behave. Not because they want but have to. In SL there is no punishment. Go figure.
So I don't see much hope for you. Install a zero-time orb, then you don't need to deal with that. If you're place doesn't allow it - wrong place.
If you use the parcel ban list add a time to the ban so the list will not fill up and ppl usually don't come back. But that's way too much efforts. I prefer instant kill - fully automatic - so that I don't have to think about it.

I have been on such a parcel once. An automatic asskicker helps 💪 At the moment I am on a quiet place and don't need to deal with unwanted visitors.

[Nick0678]

Use security orbs or a security bot for those parcels and stop having high expectations from others to follow your way of thinking.  For a lot of people putting a fence doesn't actually mean anything and won't stop everyone regardless if it's Real life or virtual worlds.

[Akane Nacht]

Have a signboard that says "Private Property" and maybe a sign at the landing point that lets people know some spots are private rentals. Otherwise it could be assumed the houses are open to all. Lots of places do this, and I haven't noticed anyone disrespecting it. I suspect the region admin would boot and ban them if they did.

Pretty house by the way.

[Roxy Couturier]

Without actual signage saying something like 'Please respect our renters private parcels' in an otherwise open to the public sim, personally, I would assume that would be open to the public. I used to live on a sim that was open to the public and had private rentals. Most people respect that sort of rule.

Maybe it's time to change your approach to the problem you're having.

[Cinos Field]

30 minutes ago, Miller Thor said:

The thing is that we have the two regions open to the public, but we have also allocated several plots of land as private land, which are also very well recognizable as such. Precisely through garden fences and other things that make every normal-thinking person understand that the small piece of land is a private property. The problem seems to be that unfortunately too many turn off the brain as soon as they start SL and thus also lose the respect and manners. 
No one can tell me that the property in the photo cannot be recognized as a private property and should respect it as such. 
It's all about the principle and accepting something and not saying 'that's just SL, I'm doing what I want' . Here, too, there are rules of coexistence, decency and respect. 

It might just be the snow but this looks like a (ski) lodge to me with the low decorative fence and the style... I'd not enter personally but it doesn't automatically register as a private home, at least without knowing what the rest of the sim is like.

Different cultures all have different mental images of what a private home looks like, I think. That and this is SL where it has to be made more obvious.

 

[Miller Thor]

We have technical helpers, such as the above-mentioned ass-kicker, installed for our tenants in the houses, also highly visible alarm systems as well as a warning sign and yet almost every day 4 - 5 people invade these houses and try to settle there at home. Sure, after a few seconds, they are removed and banished. Only we are against the grain that there are such ignorants, which in sl so nothing is sacred at all. Turning on SL does not mean giving up the manners at login. It is just a pure principle thing how to behave as a guest. Cinos you are quite right that our mentality in Austria is different from, for example, that of the Americans, but one can nevertheless behave in such a way that one does not antagonize.  And if we are already made aware of any wrongdoing, then one should at least apologise briefly instead of, as we did yesterday, when we were insulted and begging in the worst possible way. Every fun and every attempt at understanding stops there. 

[Horus Salubrius]

Sounds like maybe you need to set the whole sim to group only.

[Miller Thor]

That is exactly what we do not want, because we like to show our RL homeland. It is only about 4 - 8 Guys per day that we miss the pleasure of all the hundreds of hours of work that we have invested for our property tenants as well as for all the hundreds of decent guests. That would be unfair to all those who behave like normal people. What is particularly striking is that this only occurs during the Advent and Christmas weeks and otherwise is largely quiet throughout the year.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Miller Thor

[Gem Oxygen]

Welcome to the world of being a estate manager in a virtual world. dealing with issues is a part of the job. However  perhaps a better way of approaching other humans who think differently, not everyone reads signs, as they may or may not rez fast enough to be read or even read English. Perhaps a earlier warning? There is rental boxes that do include security orbs with each one, teaching your tenant also is part of your job to get them to set up orbs. Setting orbs to zero is rude AF though, really would you shoot a trespasser on sight with no warning in real life, no because you know in your heart they deserve a chance to get the F out.

You're kinda setting yourself up for landlord meltdown if you don't chill. Change your approach, change how you set up parcels, change the way YOU do things because obviously the rest of the virtual world is not gonna bow down to your name calling and assuming everyone who enters understands. Tolerance  and patience goes hand in hand when dealing with other humans and a landlord with any lick of common sense knows this, perhaps a exploration to other rental sims and a talk with other rental estate managers will give you better solutions.  Perhaps hiring a estate manager who has more patience in dealing with other humans would be a better call to save you the hassle.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Miller Thor said:

The thing is that we have the two regions open to the public, but we have also allocated several plots of land as private land, which are also very well recognizable as such. Precisely through garden fences and other things that make every normal-thinking person understand that the small piece of land is a private property. The problem seems to be that unfortunately too many turn off the brain as soon as they start SL and thus also lose the respect and manners. 
No one can tell me that the property in the photo cannot be recognized as a private property and should respect it as such. 
It's all about the principle and accepting something and not saying 'that's just SL, I'm doing what I want' . Here, too, there are rules of coexistence, decency and respect. 

I have sent my aunt on a reconnaissance mission. She's standing in front of that house right now. The region is full of public use buildings and items that look very similar to that house. The only indication I can see that it's private is a small sign in German that uses scripted letters, which means that each individual letter needs to be rezzed in separately and in a very heavily built-up region like that it takes quite a bit of time for them to be legible. There's no greeter telling rules, nor is there anything in the land description that indicates there's any private property - in fact, the description is completely filled with search terms that someone searching for public recreation would look for.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Miller Thor said:

That is exactly what we do not want, because we like to show our RL homeland. It is only about 4 - 8 Guys per day that we miss the pleasure of all the hundreds of hours of work that we have invested for our property tenants as well as for all the hundreds of decent guests. That would be unfair to all those who behave like normal people. What is particularly striking is that this only occurs during the Advent and Christmas weeks and otherwise is largely quiet throughout the year.

You could parcel the areas around the homes and set those to group only or use separate security orbs on those.  People can wander anywhere but near/into homes.  Easy enough to do.

[Phil Deakins]

From what I've read, you complained that a system ban list of 500 isn't enough for you. I think you also said that you do have a security system that ejects people. So set the system to ban avatars for a limited period of hours. That way, the list won't get filled up. If your security system can't do that, then get one that can.

If you don't want to examine all of them, do a search for Security Solutions and you'll find one that you can set to ban for the number of hours that you want, or ban permanently, or not ban at all. I know it can do it because I wrote it, and I sell it inworld and in the marketplace

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, maybe, but no one can tell me I can't decorate property in the same way and make it an open-to-the-public immersive display of what privacy might look like.

People come to SL with different expectations. Those of us who see it as a huge grid of 3D web pages have a really hard time understanding how anybody could want "privacy" role play on the platform. I try not to call them "morons" and "idiots" though.

Gee... after over 15 years in SL I'm a moron and idiot because I expect people to have consideration and empathy for others. Thanks for letting me know. Now I can be just like every other crappy human out there.

[Marianne Little]

How about an invisible prim with a greeter script: "You are now entering a private home, please walk outside the fence"?

 

[Qie Niangao]

33 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Gee... after over 15 years in SL I'm a moron and idiot because I expect people to have consideration and empathy for others. Thanks for letting me know. Now I can be just like every other crappy human out there.

(I think you didn't notice those words in the OP, to which I was reacting.)

[Sassy Kenin]

3 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

How clearly do you actually have to mark private property than with a garden fence all around, a post box on the door and everything else that makes a private property recognizable even for the blindest hen? Almost every day idiots manage to make themselves unpopular with us by breaking into private houses that are more than clearly recognizable as such. Just as numerous morons manage to make themselves unpopular by messing with other people's vehicles for them and trying to use them without permission. The icing on the cake are those weak mates who break into houses where the owners are in them and say "Hello, there I am". Unfortunately, the banned list only has 500 entries free to shut out such idiots. With the best of intentions, Second Life does not mean losing respect for private property. In my opinion, respect for private property and the right to privacy should be very much incorporated into the Community Standards and TOS of Linden Labs and specially emphasized.

Well let me tell you how I've dealt with it, being battle hardened from many mainland wars, countless onslaught of gun totting madlanders and being wounded twice in the War in Jessie.

1. Rezz a Cube, Hollow It..Alpha the inside to see out..put private property texture on outside.Resize to make sure all your land is inside cube then set to phantom..Done!

or just try...

2. Go to parcel settings, add the ability to be able to be killed, buy a security orb that uses killer hornets..add friends to Orb whitelist..anyone else will be killed and sent home!..problem solved!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

So many people have responded so well to this, that it hardly feels necessary to add further practical advice. I'll just note that many of the sims that I visit that include both public and private areas feature a notification at the landing point that requests (generally politely) that visitors respect those areas clearly marked as "private." Well-informed visitors are much more likely to do this.

When visiting sims such as yours, and others I've mentioned, I have occasionally accidentally wandered on to a private parcel. Generally, I get a warning from a security orb, or some sort of pop-up asking me (often very politely) to leave -- and I do, as quickly as possible. It seems very likely to me, from what Theresa says above, that the greater number -- perhaps nearly all -- of those "trespassing" are simply not aware of the fact that they are somewhere they shouldn't be. And while there are always going to be those who don't care, and may even try to find ways to deliberately invade your privacy, I'm pretty sure that they are much in the minority. Treating everyone who wanders into a private area as though they were an uncaring idiot is not demonstrating a great deal of tolerance or understanding.

The flip side of expecting visitors to behave with respect is, perhaps, treating your visitors with a bit of respect? Your sim sounds and looks like a pretty one, and I might ordinarily find it worth a visit, but honestly, your approach to, and characterization of those who have "violated" -- quite possibly inadvertently -- your privacy is rather off-putting.

I think I'll avoid visiting a place where inadvertently wandering off the path leads to a ban, or being labelled a "moron."

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think I'll avoid visiting a place where inadvertently wandering off the path leads to a ban, or being labelled a "moron."

..but it's so tempting to take a "glamour shot" next to the pretty house, ain't it tho? But if ya do, then WHOOPS!!!