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Yes, "closed" and "expected behaviour". *sigh.  'Twas ever thus...to LL the behaviour was expected since the situation was as Oz explained.  That, however does NOT hide the fact that SL maps are not working, have not worked for nearly a month now and are not, it seems likely, to work for some time to come.  LL also do not want the "watching" list to show just how many of us are seriously impacted in our leisure pursuits by this.

You have to accept (we have no choice in the matter) @Malin Sabra that LL simply does not see the issue in the same light as most of us residents that are impacted.

The fallback JIRA is as it ever was https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-225252

That one has been "accepted" at least.  It doesn't change anything, all it shows is that LL do things THEIR way.

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Yes, I know 🙂 This is a temporary situation...  the data needed to generate the maps has been moved to AWS, but the code that does the work has not yet. Because of how the datacenter version expe

This is getting a bit ridiculous. The world map not working makes flying/sailing a major pain to do. The grid has been fully uplifted for a month. There is literally nothing else so broken that it can

It's good that Oz has told us what's going on. It's weird that LL are choosing to use the forum to communicate this rather than .. say .. the status page or the JIRA. I note that they closed the JIRA

10 hours ago, Aishagain said:

Yes, "closed" and "expected behaviour". *sigh.  'Twas ever thus...to LL the behaviour was expected since the situation was as Oz explained.  That, however does NOT hide the fact that SL maps are not working, have not worked for nearly a month now and are not, it seems likely, to work for some time to come.  LL also do not want the "watching" list to show just how many of us are seriously impacted in our leisure pursuits by this.

You have to accept (we have no choice in the matter) @Malin Sabra that LL simply does not see the issue in the same light as most of us residents that are impacted.

The fallback JIRA is as it ever was https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-225252

That one has been "accepted" at least.  It doesn't change anything, all it shows is that LL do things THEIR way.

The secret of a successful business, I was once told, is to 'Get Customers, Keep them".  The point being that it was several times more costly to attract a new customer, than to please an existing one.

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On 12/14/2020 at 6:59 PM, Ardy Lay said:

I am getting tiles when full-scale.  If those were still missing I would be kinda cheesed-off by now.  As it is, I can still get my map-tile fix.

If you have the map tiles in cache you will see a version of the world map. However, I just recently updated my viewer. Now when I open the World Map, I see nothing but ocean. If you know the region you want to TP to, you can type in the coordinates and go there.

However you can no longer do a bunch of administrative things as an Estate Manager, Resident, or Gamer. This includes, at minimum, easily featuring and viewing parcels for sale within your region, monitoring sim restarts, monitoring how many people are in a particular region, and - for gamers and others - where they are, charting courses for sailing or flying, and more. These are all important uses of the World Map and I don't know of any substitute for some of them.

Most importantly, the World Map made Second Life seem like an actual virtual world for exploring. The World Map is what I used when first here in 2009, leading me to the steamlands estate I lived on for 10 years. A friend and I conceived and built a tool where you could click a button and draw a random location on the map, and explore that way.  Sure, they can do something more like Sansar and rely on the Destination Guide. I would just hate to see replacement tools ending up marginalizing smaller innovative projects that don't make Linden Labs enough money.

I strongly encourage any virtual cartography geeks to visit Maps of Second LIfe at New Kadath.

Home of the exhibit “Maps of Second Life”, an exploration of the Main Grid’s history, geography and culture as depicted via maps and cartography. Also hosting a rotating selection of themed visual art.  Juliana Lethdetter, Curator.

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/New Kadath/42/28/23

I do hope the World Map returns, with all its important utility. I am sure the uplift has been a huge amount of work and sometimes one thing has to happen before another does.

They should consider the impact on estate owners and post a formal update on this matter.

Edited by Lex Perdide
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12 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

The secret of a successful business, I was once told, is to 'Get Customers, Keep them".  The point being that it was several times more costly to attract a new customer, than to please an existing one.

Over the 12 years I have been in SL I have seen Linden Lab flout, ignore and seemingly defy that time-honoured maxim.  Never have I seen a company so intent on committing commercial suicide as LL has been at times....and yet SL survives!  One of life's conundrums, I suppose.

At times LL has tested SL's resilience and its users patience almost to breaking point.  One might even believe they consider SL indestructible...yes, one might!

Innovation is good but so is having a loyal customer base.  I just wish LL believed that.

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57 minutes ago, Lex Perdide said:

...you can no longer do a bunch of administrative things as an Estate Manager, Resident, or Gamer. This includes, at minimum, easily featuring and viewing parcels for sale within your region, monitoring sim restarts, monitoring how many people are in a particular region, and - for gamers and others - where they are, charting courses for sailing or flying, and more. These are all important uses of the World Map and I don't know of any substitute for some of them.

Most importantly, the World Map made Second Life seem like an actual virtual world for exploring.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I open the World Map, which I use multiple times per session for a bunch of reasons.

It looks like this might be viewed as an expendable feature because the SL user base has evolved so much. The most important users don't cover territory anymore, they just own Linden Homes and shop. And no offense to these folks - they are keeping lots of creators working!

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I do not believe Linden Lab considers the Second Life World Map to be expendable.   I believe there is a dependency that must be corrected before the map can work properly again.  Some goober probably hard-coded in something that seemed like a good idea at the time that needs to be replaced with something not intermingled in the underlying infrastructure, which has now changed.

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1 hour ago, rmarie Beedit said:

It looks like this might be viewed as an expendable feature because the SL user base has evolved so much. The most important users don't cover territory anymore, they just own Linden Homes and shop.

Dear God, I hope this is not a common view, moreover I hope it is wrong!  I and many of the folk that I know in SL do not operate anything like this way!

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On 12/20/2020 at 3:33 PM, Oz Linden said:

Yes, I know 🙂

This is a temporary situation...  the data needed to generate the maps has been moved to AWS, but the code that does the work has not yet. Because of how the datacenter version expected to fetch that data, it was not possible for us to make it work until the code has been moved too. That move is in progress and shouldn't be too much longer (sorry, I don't want to jinx the developer by setting a date).

Why not use the opportunity to update the rendered image too? That part seems has not seen an update even before sculpties were introduced.. now that mesh is very popular, we got maps that are mostly made out of random color shapes instead of clear structures and objects. Why are we conforming with such broken renders on something so used like the map tiles?

 

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27 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

Why not use the opportunity to update the rendered image too? That part seems has not seen an update even before sculpties were introduced.. now that mesh is very popular, we got maps that are mostly made out of random color shapes instead of clear structures and objects. Why are we conforming with such broken renders on something so used like the map tiles?

 

LOD. It is the LOD of most meshes that is horrible at low levels, the map print reflects that. Objects with good LOD (some mesh airplanes, helicopters, even rock formations included) get a very nice and accurate print on the map - when the print update works 🤣 - I guess this could be overcome in a way like the LOD factor setting in the viewer, but it's a waste of resources. It would be much better if creators took the extra few minutes per mesh object to make a Lowest LOD model that matches the outline of the full detail object, instead of letting the updater create a 3-triangle heap of placeholder.

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On 12/28/2020 at 4:03 PM, Ina Fairport said:

When I zoom out I can't see any land on the map. Long distance sailing and flying is no fun now.
I hope it will be better soon otherwise I am afraid I wont log in anymore.
Sailing and flying are the only reason I am still in SL
 

They didn't want you to feel free online because you cannot be free in real life so they locked down the map to simulate real life

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3 hours ago, Valentina Kendal said:

January 8th, transfer to AWS supposedly complete, and still no Map. Can't drive or fly around those wonderful continents you built so many years ago Linden Labs....

The map tile service has not been uplifted yet, but is currently being worked on.

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On 12/28/2020 at 4:08 PM, AlettaMondragon said:

LOD. It is the LOD of most meshes that is horrible at low levels, the map print reflects that. Objects with good LOD (some mesh airplanes, helicopters, even rock formations included) get a very nice and accurate print on the map - when the print update works 🤣 - I guess this could be overcome in a way like the LOD factor setting in the viewer, but it's a waste of resources. It would be much better if creators took the extra few minutes per mesh object to make a Lowest LOD model that matches the outline of the full detail object, instead of letting the updater create a 3-triangle heap of placeholder.

I can evidence this is not true. I am one that tries as much as plausible to make proper LOD's to everything, and even my things with proper LOD that should (If your explanation were true) appear on the tile somewhat with the right shape, they ususally do not. Builds that should be square on map, sometimes appears round, with 6 edges just like rounded prims. They seem to have better chance to be identifiable, but in no way they hold their true shape on the lowest LOD. If this is no clear indicator that the render process simply does not reads mesh well (and even prims, making circles with 6 corners), I don't know what is, and again, I beleive something like the map tiles should have a better visual representation giving the use and importance they have.

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The world map does not know of mesh.  What it renders is the equivalent of a prim with the same number of faces as the mesh has, as determined when the mesh is uploaded, biased by the size of the base component.  The color applied to each face is determined by the average color value of the applied texture, also determined and stored within the texture asset when it is uploaded.  It is similar to what one sees when viewing a mesh object with a viewer that does not support mesh.  Something similar occurs when viewing a sculpted prim on the world map.

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On 12/20/2020 at 7:33 PM, Oz Linden said:

Yes, I know 🙂

This is a temporary situation...  the data needed to generate the maps has been moved to AWS, but the code that does the work has not yet. Because of how the datacenter version expected to fetch that data, it was not possible for us to make it work until the code has been moved too. That move is in progress and shouldn't be too much longer (sorry, I don't want to jinx the developer by setting a date).

It's good that Oz has told us what's going on. It's weird that LL are choosing to use the forum to communicate this rather than .. say .. the status page or the JIRA. I note that they closed the JIRA (BUG-229888) that said 'this is broke' with a status of 'Expected behaviour' (!) and a comment "Look at the status page". If you're going to do that then .. update the status page with the comment Oz has put into this forum!!!

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On 12/20/2020 at 11:33 AM, Oz Linden said:

Yes, I know 🙂

This is a temporary situation...  the data needed to generate the maps has been moved to AWS, but the code that does the work has not yet. Because of how the datacenter version expected to fetch that data, it was not possible for us to make it work until the code has been moved too. That move is in progress and shouldn't be too much longer (sorry, I don't want to jinx the developer by setting a date).

The uplift is complete, your colo was completely empty as of January 5th.  It's time for another update on this, @Oz Linden.  Am I correct in assuming that the map software cannot be adapted to the cloud, and you are having to do a complete rewrite?  If so, I have a couple of simple feature suggestions.

May I reiterate that losing the ability to see more than a few regions at a time is a MAJOR LOSS OF FUNCTIONALITY.  Why bother to have large interconnected land and water masses if residents cannot navigate them?

 

Edited by Nika Talaj
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