How do you feel about premade complete human avis?

[Gopi Passiflora]

In the Complete Avatars section of the Marketplace, there is an option to buy complete human avatars (male, female, and child). Personally I never thought about getting these avis because I have access to stuff like Catwa, Lelutka, and Maitreya brands. But due to the aforementioned brands and their high prices, I can see why these cheaper avis on the marketplace might be a better alternative for some people.

What do you guys think?

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

What do you guys think?

   For someone who's just trying SL out and don't know whether they want to sink a bunch of money into it ... Possibly, but probably no.

   It depends on what you want to do in SL, but if shopping for clothes and playing around with fashion stuff is it, then most of those avatars won't get you anywhere. Besides, for as long as Genus has a free head, and all you need to go with it is a Maitreya, you can create an avatar fairly cheaply with high quality mesh, that will work with BOM, that will have the majority of clothes released available for it. For men it's a little more difficult to get away as cheap.

   If all you want is an avatar that doesn't scream 'look at me, I'm a potato', to do exploring, sailing, socialising, gaming, etc - yeah, that'll work. 

[Fauve Aeon]

It really depends. So many people have so many different interests in SL, so some of those all-in-one options might be just right. What if they have 4-5 RP alts to make? What if they want to just wear things they make for themselves as much as possible? What if they want to be very low lag and just travel the grid to see the sights? What if they are a creator and don’t really care about styling their avatar as you might a Barbie doll? All of those reasons make sense to me and I’m sure there are other scenarios too. 

What if we all just tried wearing only 100% alpha everything for a week and did not focus on our own avatar’s appearance at all?

How would it be? 

Do I judge? Of course, I think we all form some judgements when choices about looks and appearance in SL are so easy and much cheaper and easier than in our first lives. For the price of a nice meal in an upscale restaurant you can buy a top-of-the-line avatar in SL with everything needed. If people don’t, well that’s often a choice too and you’ll spend more time running about chasing freebies and finding things that fit those non-standard avatars once you do want to change something about them...and time is $ right? 

[Yuumo Ichibara]

Those avatars are not bad if you are making scripted agent avatars or bots for your business or RP sim. I have a few of those. But they are totally not inhabitable or something you would live out your daily SL in.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Yuumo Ichibara

[Wulfie Reanimator]

If you like characters ripped from other games, go wild.

[BelindaN]

Once I'd spent L$222 on my first complete avi, I knew I would stay. 

[Ceka Cianci]

Do they even get support from other creators?  I never really looked into them myself..

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Do they even get support from other creators?

   Not a lot, usually. The Piggu avies appeared to receive a liiittle bit of support, last I checked.

   But yeah, any creator who gets into making clothes for SL will probably focus on bodies that are used by the majority of the player base. If someone only wanted to spend $100 on the body, they probably aren't going to want to spend much on their clothes either.

[Marianne Little]

Unless you get Ruth/Roth avatars, it is a waste. It is many system avatars, and then people could use one from the library with free classic clothes and free standard sized mesh. It is one brand starting with N... who has advertised "promo" as long as I can remember, since 2011.

Newbies who have only 100 - 200 L may think it is the best buy. The avatar can not use any of the shoes made the last years, only system feet shoes.

Clothes are usually crap, and hair is some old flexi that never totally leaves circulation.

For men it is the same, in best case mesh clothes. I see some other avatars than Ruth/Roth that are cheap, but I don't buy them.

Why, when it is a 1 L Bento mesh body for both men and women who can use BoM and all the TMP clothes still sold? With alpha cuts in case alpha layers is not available. It is still a free Bento female head (Genus, unless it is over) and it was just now a free Bento male and female head. (LOGO)

Much better quality and support than unknown brand with glitches and god knows how much support.

[Fauve Aeon]

3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

If you like characters ripped from other games, go wild.

Without an ongoing list of creators that do this and with no ability to blacklist creators and their shops on MP, if you aren’t a gamer it’s harder to avoid this. I know I don’t recognize a lot of ripped game stuff unless it’s pointed out (I do ask gamer friends if I suspect things are ripped) or I try my best to look it up because I’ve never played very many games. Ditto for 3rd party imports that may or may not be used in SL against the original creator’s TOS, though often those are easier to look up on 3d sales sites by descriptive keywords. If it’s a very obvious thing like Disney, sure but otherwise? I’m iffy. 
 

edit to avoid serial posting:

many people are a silent population in this kind of conversation because they still wear system bodies and heads with maybe still only slink hands/feet for ability to wear better shoes (and go barefooted with pretty feet) and do hand gestures that don’t look like fists or claw/paws. They upgraded from parts that had limited function and just never got into the aesthetics of mesh heads and bodies that hard, or if they like the ability to do non-scary facial expressions, they just picked up one of the cheap or free bento heads that is compatible with their skin maker’s skins. I know at least 2 people happily driving fully system avatars that have not changed much at all since I met them in 2008. They do other things in SL and only have their avatar styled ‘adequately’ to those functions. I imagine them IRL as people who aren’t into clothing and fashion.
 

When you think about it, it’s often a weird game of aesthetics, some people are showing off their ‘skills’ in character styling and somehow derive some smugness in styling their character ‘better’ according to whatever criteria. I’ve always found that kind of weird because anyone who has around $20-50 to throw at it can pretty much grab a head, body, some clothes, search from newest clothing and hair items, slap on some (already perfect) makeup and do an up-to-the-minute avatar even if they have barely any RL style sense and hate fashion and shopping. Others do the same song and dance but with choosing and their home(s). It’s a weird flex sometimes and it can feel awkward. 

This point is a big reason why some noobs do question the point of SL. If they see a ‘basic’ avatar in a middle class home, that’s already achievable or achieved in first life for many of the people who would be attracted to SL in the first place so they don’t really see the point. This is a conversation I’ve had with several people. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Fauve Aeon

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using them if all you want is a simple body and simple outfits and don't plan on spending a lot of money on useless outfits and trivial accessories that you probably wont wear all that often.

To many people put too much emphasis on mesh or bom or having fully decked out bodies and heads and outfits and just waste a lot of money by doing so to feed their vanity and pride ego and insecurity issues about how they look or how others will see them or think about them.

Using one can be cheap an a simple easy upgrade from the standard chosen bodies at account creation. They are just as fine to use and wear for any activity then any other body.

You can drive or fly or sail or walk or run in them just as easy as any other body. You don't have to care or worry what others think if you look fashionable or cool or hip or fit in the crowd. Its about you being you and doing what you like and want, not what some fashionista says you need to do to fit in or be accepted. Their opinion should not really matter. Its your secondlife, your account, you choice. Not anyone elses.

[FairreLilette]

23 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

In the Complete Avatars section of the Marketplace, there is an option to buy complete human avatars (male, female, and child). Personally I never thought about getting these avis because I have access to stuff like Catwa, Lelutka, and Maitreya brands. But due to the aforementioned brands and their high prices, I can see why these cheaper avis on the marketplace might be a better alternative for some people.

What do you guys think?

It's not a bad idea if you want a low lag avi to go shopping in or exploring in and/or for Halloween.  I bought a rather famous cartoon character and a certain avi from Star Wars one Halloween and they looked good dancing together.  Somehow, I could make the Star Wars avi dance with my avi...I forgot how it worked now.

There are uses for them, low lag is a big one, imo.

[Lucia Nightfire]

99.9% of "avatars" in the Complete Avatars category are ONLY clothing or clothing & hair or clothing & hair & skin, all meant for some popular cartel body.

There is no head or body.

It really grinds my gears whenever I see a listing that says "Complete Avatar" and it is anything but. 😣

[Prokofy Neva]

You can keep them.

[Maitimo]

Most of them do not have mesh bodies and heads. Or if they do, they have only the free full-perm Ruth/Roth bodies. They can only fit "standard size" clothing which almost nobody makes any more. 

[Tiny Bookmite]

5 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using them if all you want is a simple body and simple outfits and don't plan on spending a lot of money on useless outfits and trivial accessories that you probably wont wear all that often.

To many people put too much emphasis on mesh or bom or having fully decked out bodies and heads and outfits and just waste a lot of money by doing so to feed their vanity and pride ego and insecurity issues about how they look or how others will see them or think about them.

Using one can be cheap an a simple easy upgrade from the standard chosen bodies at account creation. They are just as fine to use and wear for any activity then any other body.

You can drive or fly or sail or walk or run in them just as easy as any other body. You don't have to care or worry what others think if you look fashionable or cool or hip or fit in the crowd. Its about you being you and doing what you like and want, not what some fashionista says you need to do to fit in or be accepted. Their opinion should not really matter. Its your secondlife, your account, you choice. Not anyone elses.

👏 Well said - there's a tad too much judgement around about how one's avatar should look. Choice of appearance has nothing to do with money or fashion sense in real life and everything to do with the reason for being in SL, which for many of us is not to play dress-ups!

[Claireschen Hesten]

11 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

It really grinds my gears whenever I see a listing that says "Complete Avatar" and it is anything but. 😣

A long long time ago before mesh bodies and heads were a thing, a complete avatar just had all the components for a system avatar i remember getting an alt a really cheap one it had hair/skin/eyes/shape/accessories/outfit/shoes/Facelight maybe some other bits in it

[Talligurl]

My very first avatar after the basic system avatar I started with was a complete avatar. I used it up until I went mesh, which was over a year. 

 

[Janet Voxel]

Most complete avis are old system avis. They're good for a gag, but that's about it. I have a noobatar saved, with old flexi hair, bling and a really basic AO. 

Hot right?

 

 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

On 11/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Fauve Aeon said:

On 11/29/2020 at 11:27 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

If you like characters ripped from other games, go wild.

Without an ongoing list of creators that do this and with no ability to blacklist creators and their shops on MP, if you aren’t a gamer it’s harder to avoid this. I know I don’t recognize a lot of ripped game stuff unless it’s pointed out (I do ask gamer friends if I suspect things are ripped) or I try my best to look it up because I’ve never played very many games. Ditto for 3rd party imports that may or may not be used in SL against the original creator’s TOS, though often those are easier to look up on 3d sales sites by descriptive keywords. If it’s a very obvious thing like Disney, sure but otherwise? I’m iffy. 

Avatars made for Second Life tend to have a specific "flavor" to them compared to ones made for other actual games. We can discount avatars that would be considered "recognizable game characters" and there'll still be many quirks that are obvious tells about whether something is exported from somewhere else and not made with Second Life in mind.

It's obviously not something everyone can do, but the more time you spend looking at the types of models people make for Second Life vs 3D modeling software vs actual games, you'll start to quickly recognize that "something doesn't belong."

For example, this is a recent upload in the Complete Avatars category:

Quote

Just the way this item is titled + its description is a red flag that this is just a quick upload from somewhere else and not a "real product." If I do an image search for "final fantasy 8 squall chibi 3d model," you can quickly tell that this is just a model that's floating about the internet, and the original comes from "Itadaki Street Special" which is a PlayStation 2 game.

 

Another example:

Quote

First, let's ignore the ridiculous price. Something seems off from just looking at the texture quality. Avatars in Second Life are the main attraction and what people spend most of their time looking at, but you can almost see the pixels in those textures. Nobody would make an avatar like that for Second Life, even if they wanted to make a low-poly stylized avatar. Someone who has the skill to create a complete avatar like this simply wouldn't ever sell it the way it is, for as cheap as it is.

The reason why this avatar has such wonky looking textures is because it's ripped from a game called League of Legends, which is a top-down action game and doesn't need that high resolution.

And this kind of stuff makes up the vast majority of everything in that category. If you find one suspicious avatar, look at the creator's store. What you'll most likely find is a mish-mash of completely different styles of avatars, so different in quality (and in such quantity) that there's no way a single person would have created all of them.

 

If we went into the price category that I think would at least be reasonable for a "complete avatar" (1000 - 5000 range), you'll see more of the same alongside the really good products.

Quote

Reasonable price, detailed description, creator's name isn't suspiciously random, and their store looks consistent. Looks like a real product.

 

Quote

Reasonable price, realistic description, lots of screenshots + features ("a lot of effort"), but looking at the store, it's one of those mish-mash cases. The scripted features can be pretty much copy-pasted between avatars, especially since this store seems to focus on combat stuff. The mesh avatars themselves however look very "default" or low-detail as if taken from somewhere else. I would almost guarantee they're all ripped.

TLDR checklist:

1. Does the product lack a description and screenshots?
2. Does the store have products with greatly varying quality?
3. Does every product lack a demo and inworld location?
4. Does it look a bit too "low quality," like compressed/low-res textures?
5. Does the quality of the avatar seem inconsistent with the product image?
6. Does the price seem "too good to be true?"
7. Does the creator have a generic name like Woodoo862834?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Sassy Kenin]

I like the idea of building & puzzling together my avatars..Often buying clothing full perm just to make my own textures to uniquely complete the style I've envisioned.

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

On 11/30/2020 at 3:16 AM, Tiny Bookmite said:

👏 Well said - there's a tad too much judgement around about how one's avatar should look. Choice of appearance has nothing to do with money or fashion sense in real life and everything to do with the reason for being in SL, which for many of us is not to play dress-ups!

I joined SL specifically to dress up the avatar. I came from a game called Smallworlds and the main point was to deck out your doll like avatar, besides the mini games you could create and play 3rd party games within the world.

The majority of profit that LL gets besides real estate, is from the fashion community.

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

16 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Avatars made for Second Life tend to have a specific "flavor" to them compared to ones made for other actual games. We can discount avatars that would be considered "recognizable game characters" and there'll still be many quirks that are obvious tells about whether something is exported from somewhere else and not made with Second Life in mind.

It's obviously not something everyone can do, but the more time you spend looking at the types of models people make for Second Life vs 3D modeling software vs actual games, you'll start to quickly recognize that "something doesn't belong."

For example, this is a recent upload in the Complete Avatars category:

Just the way this item is titled + its description is a red flag that this is just a quick upload from somewhere else and not a "real product." If I do an image search for "final fantasy 8 squall chibi 3d model," you can quickly tell that this is just a model that's floating about the internet, and the original comes from "Itadaki Street Special" which is a PlayStation 2 game.

 

Another example:

First, let's ignore the ridiculous price. Something seems off from just looking at the texture quality. Avatars in Second Life are the main attraction and what people spend most of their time looking at, but you can almost see the pixels in those textures. Nobody would make an avatar like that for Second Life, even if they wanted to make a low-poly stylized avatar. Someone who has the skill to create a complete avatar like this simply wouldn't ever sell it the way it is, for as cheap as it is.

The reason why this avatar has such wonky looking textures is because it's ripped from a game called League of Legends, which is a top-down action game and doesn't need that high resolution.

And this kind of stuff makes up the vast majority of everything in that category. If you find one suspicious avatar, look at the creator's store. What you'll most likely find is a mish-mash of completely different styles of avatars, so different in quality (and in such quantity) that there's no way a single person would have created all of them.

 

If we went into the price category that I think would at least be reasonable for a "complete avatar" (1000 - 5000 range), you'll see more of the same alongside the really good products.

Reasonable price, detailed description, creator's name isn't suspiciously random, and their store looks consistent. Looks like a real product.

 

Reasonable price, realistic description, lots of screenshots + features ("a lot of effort"), but looking at the store, it's one of those mish-mash cases. The scripted features can be pretty much copy-pasted between avatars, especially since this store seems to focus on combat stuff. The mesh avatars themselves however look very "default" or low-detail as if taken from somewhere else. I would almost guarantee they're all ripped.

TLDR checklist:

1. Does the product lack a description and screenshots?
2. Does the store have products with greatly varying quality?
3. Does every product lack a demo and inworld location?
4. Does it look a bit too "low quality," like compressed/low-res textures?
5. Does the quality of the avatar seem inconsistent with the product image?
6. Does the price seem "too good to be true?"
7. Does the creator have a generic name like Woodoo862834?

You don't need an in-world store nowadays to be a legit store.

It makes more sense to run a cost free store than paying for rent and uploads.

Many new creators operate only a marketplace store.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

58 minutes ago, Kytteh Wytchwood said:

You don't need an in-world store nowadays to be a legit store.

It makes more sense to run a cost free store than paying for rent and uploads.

Many new creators operate only a marketplace store.

If that's all you took from it... I'm sorry.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On my phone, the title of this thread is truncated and reads as "How do you feel about prema . . ."

Totally gave me the wrong idea at first. But I was about to pitch in with commiserations and medical advice.