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I've Worked Every Thanksgiving of My Life. Why Can't the Lindens?


Prokofy Neva
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40 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Ya know... you are sort of moving into the realm of haters... imagining bad things about people without any evidence to base your comments/opinions on... or are you trying to provoke people... which I suppose is some defense mechanism ...

 

I used to point to the Linden transcripts. But... you missed that fact and went with a cheap shot.

1. I've never lacked for evidence.

2. So you don't read the transcripts because you were in the room when it happened. Ok.

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7 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

PS The Lab has always been AT ONE with their employees. There is no rich or poor in Jesus. I think you have never read the Tao of Linden. Let me enlighten you, my child

Yes, yes, it's all very Silicon Valley, very "move-fast-and-break-things-oh-gosh-what-a-glorious-adventure-we-are-all-on-together!" isn't it?

We've seen this "philosophy," which is really a corporate employee-relations strategy, at work in places like Google before. It's hooey. All of the ping pong tables in the staff room and bean bag chairs can't mask the real power dynamic. An employee is still an employee, and a corporation is still, very much, always, a corporation.

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3 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

99.8% up time is all any one can guarantee, it happens, I know, I am in the industry and when it break, omg, does it break, and which point of failure is the issue, since we have many boxes that replicate every couple hours,  but the issue becomes,  which data center, which aws node,  how many, is it us, or is it them,   I see companies offering 100% uptime,   yeah good luck with that, that's not how one does business and says in profit.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread ask for 100% uptime.

I work in a 24/7, 365 industry myself. We have someone there, 2 AM on Thanksgiving morning (up until recently, that was me), to make sure if something does go wrong, we can handle it. Because we're charging for the whole year- not the whole year except days we want to take off.

  

2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

never assume anything about any company or any service provided by said company as to what level of support will be around 24/7/365. If you do this it only makes you look stupid. just because abc company works or has support on holidays for problems does not mean xyz company will or has too.. even if it provides a 24/7 service such as gaming. People are allowed to have holidays and not work. Just because some companies don't provide for that doesn't mean all companies have to act like that company just to keep its customer base happy. tough for anyone that doesn't like that answer, you don't get to dictate how the company acts and never did.

You may be a customer but you are not in control and never was or will be. You have no special rights or entitlements or privilege's ever and never did. The customer is not always right in what they want, when or how or why ever.. that is not how real life works. Only egotistical people believe in such manners.

Attitudes like yours are why software companies got into the habit of releasing unfinished, broken stuff for full price.

If they can't staff holidays, they should be giving us discounts during the months that include holidays. Since they don't, then that puts this squarely on them, not us.

 

Edited by Paul Hexem
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13 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I haven't seen anyone in this thread ask for 100% uptime.

I work in a 24/7, 365 industry myself. We have someone there, 2 AM on Thanksgiving morning (up until recently, that was me), to make sure if something does go wrong, we can handle it. Because we're charging for the whole year- not the whole year except days we want to take off.

  

Attitudes like yours are why software companies got into the habit of releasing unfinished, broken stuff for full price.

If they can't staff holidays, they should be giving us discounts during the months that include holidays. Since they don't, then that puts this squarely on them, not us.

 

your not entitled to any discount just because they are not there 24/7/365 just because you think they should be.

no it puts it on you and your complaining that the company wont act or behave how you think they should, when they don't ever have to no matter what you think is right or fair or not.

just because you work in a 365/24/7 company that does not give holidays is your own choice. Other companies do not ever have to be how your company is, no matter what sort of service they provide.

if your dumb enough to buy an item at full price when its not finished that is your fault and no one elses. wait for the reviews, dont just jump the gun and buy just because you want it nowz and cant wait a few extra days or weeks until the reviews come out about it. people who do that have no right to complain at all for their own stupid mistake of buying early or not doing proper research before buying something not finished.

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes, yes, it's all very Silicon Valley, very "move-fast-and-break-things-oh-gosh-what-a-glorious-adventure-we-are-all-on-together!" isn't it?

We've seen this "philosophy," which is really a corporate employee-relations strategy, at work in places like Google before. It's hooey. All of the ping pong tables in the staff room and bean bag chairs can't mask the real power dynamic. An employee is still an employee, and a corporation is still, very much, always, a corporation.

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

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1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

your not entitled to any discount just because they are not there 24/7/365 just because you think they should be.

no it puts it on you and your complaining that the company wont act or behave how you think they should, when they don't ever have to no matter what you think is right or fair or not.

just because you work in a 365/24/7 company that does not give holidays is your own choice. Other companies do not ever have to be how your company is, no matter what sort of service they provide.

Incorrect, in so many ways.

But, clearly enough people like paying full price for half products, behavior like this has become common. I blame millennials that like abuse, personally.

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4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I only have 20-odd customers on that sim and their friends, and I've immediately given them free rentals elsewhere for 2 days or as long as it takes. But of course it's not the same.

I understand your frustration and concern for your 20 customers living on the wayward sim. Not all, I'm sure, but at least some were inconvenienced in major ways. While for many SL is just a game where they'd just go play another one if their virtual space in SL became unavailable, for others in this Covid crisis where we're so isolated, their SL home means much more -- a place to feel safe or connect with friends. Even worse considering this is a holiday where isolation from RL family is so prevalent.

And to top it off, they blame you.  There's a reason I stopped being a landlady.

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10 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Incorrect, in so many ways.

But, clearly enough people like paying full price for half products, behavior like this has become common. I blame millennials that like abuse, personally.

not incorrect in any way at all. You are not nearly as important as you like to think you are. You have no special rights or entitlements or anything about how the company has to act in what ever manner you like or want.

the fact you cannot understand this, means you lack full grounding in reality and like to live in a fantasy world of your own making at times. where you think you are special or important and deserve to be treated in special ways.. your not.

anyone that pays full price for a half done product has no right to complain about their own stupidity ever. as said before the customer is not always right and never was or will be. no matter how many arrogant or delusional people want to constantly profess this to be true. its not and never was.. so take a reality check.. your not in control over the company and how it has to make you happy at all. you are a number to them nothing more.

they done owe you anything but what you agreed to, nothing more.

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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15 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not incorrect in any way at all. You are not nearly as important as you like to think you are. You have no special rights or entitlements or anything about how the company has to act in what ever manner you like or want.

the fact you cannot understand this, means you lack full grounding in reality and like to live in a fantasy world of your own making at times. where you think you are special or important and deserve to be treated in special ways.. your not.

anyone that pays full price for a half done product has no right to complain about their own stupidity ever. as said before the customer is not always right and never was or will be. no matter how many arrogant or delusional people want to constantly profess this to be true. its not and never was.. so take a reality check.. your not in control over the company and how it has to make you happy at all. you are a number to them nothing more.

they done owe you anything but what you agreed to, nothing more.

Still incorrect. You even say so yourself, paying full price for half done product.

Further, I can demand whatever I want, however I want it. If they don't meet those demands, they lose a customer. If they lose enough customers, they go out of business. They have to balance those demands with what they can deliver. It's called "free trade".

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5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Still incorrect. You even say so yourself, paying full price for half done product.

Further, I can demand whatever I want, however I want it. If they don't meet those demands, they lose a customer. If they lose enough customers, they go out of business. They have to balance those demands with what they can deliver. It's called "free trade".

you can demand all you want and threaten to leave all you want but that does not mean they are going to care now or ever, because you are not nearly as important to them as you like to think. go ahead and leave, I doubt they will say anything about but the customary we are sorry to see you go..  which is sent to everyone that leaves.

no they do not have to balance anything out because you or anyone else says so ever.

they will never loose enough customers because new ones join all the time. so the fear of loosing you is nothing to them.

full time 24/7/365 support is not part of the product and never was even if you want to think it is or should be.

they never said you will have 24/7/365 support at the very moment you want it ever..

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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42 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

you can demand all you want and threaten to leave all you want but that does not mean they are going to care now or ever, because you are not nearly as important to them as you like to think. go ahead and leave, I doubt they will say anything about but the customary we are sorry to see you go..  which is sent to everyone that leaves.

no they do not have to balance anything out because you or anyone else says so ever.

they will never loose enough customers because new ones join all the time. so the fear of loosing you is nothing to them.

full time 24/7/365 support is not part of the product and never was even if you want to think it is or should be.

they never said you will have 24/7/365 support at the very moment you want it ever..

It's worth mentioning that Oz Linden tore himself away from his sweet potato pie with bourbon (!) to TP into Ravenglass Realm and Belarus to see if they were working -- they are now because it got fixed about an hour or so again.

Vix Linden answered my ticket.

As I said, the Lindens are often nicer and more thoughtful than the forums geeks, although they are brothers from another mother.

Now, is this because I put a post on the forums, sent two tickets, and raised Cain? Yes, that's likely, because both of these Lindens know that I complain a lot and blog and everything else and I realize they barely tolerate me but that's ok. Oz, for example, whom I have met in RL in 2010 has stayed the distance and is a grown man, unlike that scripter I hired once in SL named "Meatwad" who told me he was late with the job because his mother hadn't picked him up from school yet, and no, he couldn't finish it tonight because he had math homework to do. AFAIK Oz's math homework has been finished for decades, and he has worked for real companies in the past. 

Sir Vix I don't know at all. I think he's in charge of customer relations maybe? But then he's at those tech office hours. So who knows. Recently, I sent Sir Vix a painting by Earl Dinkins, no. c21, the one titled:

A Lake Cottage Built Exactly to Shoreline Edge and Questionably too matched to Water Level

Because I felt it had his name on it...If you don't know Earl Dinkins you must hurry on down to his gallery in Saimaa and elsewhere. 

So I am grateful to the Lindens who fixed my sims, and those who came online to see if I had stopped complaining yet and everything was good.

To be sure, it took more than 24 hours, and during that time I had one person come back and refund because they blame it on me. Two others haven't paid rent yet because they feel, why hurry with the rent when the sim is down?  Two took up my offer to go to my other rentals cheerfully. One is still screaming. But all in all, I feel blessed : )

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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3 hours ago, Chroma Starlight said:

While we can understand the gripe that you feel the timeliness of your support experience was disappointing or didn't meet SLAs, and we can understand a post saying that you're frustrated how a period of technological transition can have awkward moments or take longer than expected, it's still hard to understand this seeming suggestion that Linden Lab employees specifically or workers in the USA generally have too much free time away from work for lives, for personal development, for inner enrichment, for their families, for rest and recreation, or that here and everywhere people shouldn't expend extra effort this year in particular in order to make time and space to hold appreciation in their hearts. Why don't you seek ways to transform the negative energy you're feeling into something positive for yourself and others, because I'm sure you'd be very good at that if you did it. Don't seek your happiness from customer service, seek it in your approach to things. That said, I'm sorry to hear your experience was challenging and I hope things get better.

I think you need to read the Tao of Linden. Again.

 

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19 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Speaking as someone that rarely agrees with Prokofy, I agree with Prokofy.

If you're offering a 24/7 service, you'd better have someone available 24/7. I don't get to pay less that month if the region is down for a day, they shouldn't be taking the day off.

I know, right? It makes one itchy!

There are ways of having people work holidays. Volunteers, for one. I don't mean unpaid ones, quite the opposite. There were many times if given the option of having a paid day off for a holiday OR making time & a half by working on said holiday, I'd be at the front of the line wanting that overtime.

If you are of the ilk that SL is "just" a game, then... hm. But since that's not LL's position, as far as I know, but it is a worldwide business (like to places that don't even have Thanksgiving! gasp!) that hosts other money making businesses...? And like my effing cable company when my cable goes out for extended periods of time, guess what? My bill doesn't go down. Can't reach property you own but pay tier on? I'm guessing one doesn't get a refund for that lost time or revenue.  As you said, Paul.

Not to even mention when the dumpster fires happen 24/7 on adjunct things like the forums, huh...conveniently timed for weekends and holidays. Who could foresee that? right?

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22 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's worth mentioning that Oz Linden tore himself away from his sweet potato pie with bourbon (!) to TP into Ravenglass Realm and Belarus to see if they were working -- they are now because it got fixed about an hour or so again.

Vix Linden answered my ticket.

As I said, the Lindens are often nicer and more thoughtful than the forums geeks, although they are brothers from another mother.

Now, is this because I put a post on the forums, sent two tickets, and raised Cain? Yes, that's likely, because both of these Lindens know that I complain a lot and blog and everything else and I realize they barely tolerate me but that's ok. Oz, for example, whom I have met in RL in 2010 has stayed the distance and is a grown man, unlike that scripter I hired once in SL named "Meatwad" who told me he was late with the job because his mother hadn't picked him up from school yet, and no, he couldn't finish it tonight because he had math homework to do. AFAIK Oz's math homework has been finished for decades, and he has worked for real companies in the past. 

Sir Vix I don't know at all. I think he's in charge of customer relations maybe? But then he's at those tech office hours. So who knows. Recently, I sent Sir Vix a painting by Earl Dinkins, no. c21, the one titled:

A Lake Cottage Built Exactly to Shoreline Edge and Questionably too matched to Water Level

Because I felt it had his name on it...If you don't know Earl Dinkins you must hurry on down to his gallery in Saimaa and elsewhere. 

So I am grateful to the Lindens who fixed my sims, and those who came online to see if I had stopped complaining yet and everything was good.

To be sure, it took more than 24 hours, and during that time I had one person come back and refund because they blame it on me. Two others haven't paid rent yet because they feel, why hurry with the rent when the sim is down?  Two took up my offer to go to my other rentals cheerfully. One is still screaming. But all in all, I feel blessed : )

Just because x y or z happened doesn't make you any more special or important than anyone else. It's simply your ticket came up in the que and they finally looked at it. That's all.. nothing else.

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27 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

So I am grateful to the Lindens who fixed my sims, and those who came online to see if I had stopped complaining yet and everything was good.

Well, Happy Thanksgiving to you then, Prok. I am glad it worked out. And to Oz and Vix, who I hope are enjoying it too.

(And also, an acknowledgment here of the National Day of Mourning for Indigenous Peoples. Because history is never just one story, is it?)

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33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's worth mentioning that Oz Linden tore himself away from his sweet potato pie with bourbon (!) to TP into Ravenglass Realm and Belarus to see if they were working -- they are now because it got fixed about an hour or so again.

and stuff

That was another point I forgot to make, besides a company offering volunteer overtime vs more draconian "no holiday for YOU" edicts, and that was "on call" overtime.

It is good to see the problem got fixed, albeit not in the blink of an eye.

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I cannot imagine someone isn't listening to (or being paid to listen to) a chime if catastrophe strikes 24/7. 

That said, generally speaking businesses get to define "catastrophe" on their own/bottom line.  We customers should know that of course.  Future reinvestment is the sole power of the customer, and the market will correct itself.  Thankfully for companies, this power seems not to be realized or invoked by customers. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, Happy Thanksgiving to you then, Prok. I am glad it worked out. And to Oz and Vix, who I hope are enjoying it too.

(And also, an acknowledgment here of the National Day of Mourning for Indigenous Peoples. Because history is never just one story, is it?)

You would never believe it, with your world view, but sometimes the stories all come together.

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2 minutes ago, Kyrie Deka said:

I cannot imagine someone isn't listening to (or being paid to listen to) a chime if catastrophe strikes 24/7. 

That said, generally speaking businesses get to define "catastrophe" on their own/bottom line.  We customers should know that of course.  Future reinvestment is the sole power of the customer, and the market will correct itself.  Thankfully for companies, this power seems not to be realized or invoked by customers. 

 

 

My one island being down for 20-odd customers, dumping them out of their love nests and their gatcha sortings for 24 hours isn't what I would call a "catastrophe" although I lost revenue and some of them were really angry. It's not just that the tier clock ticks every day for us landlords, not once a month as it does for an end user and this combined with all the other things happening which you can read about in the "Mainland" section is really a death blow. This is why I then have to close communities, do less, etc. 

But something called "can't find address" is worrisome on a higher level in terms of all that is happening with the cloud.

And we have yet to hear from preciousgurl.

For her, it was likely a much bigger deal.

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23 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

My one island being down for 20-odd customers, dumping them out of their love nests and their gatcha sortings for 24 hours isn't what I would call a "catastrophe" although I lost revenue and some of them were really angry. It's not just that the tier clock ticks every day for us landlords, not once a month as it does for an end user and this combined with all the other things happening which you can read about in the "Mainland" section is really a death blow. This is why I then have to close communities, do less, etc. 

But something called "can't find address" is worrisome on a higher level in terms of all that is happening with the cloud.

And we have yet to hear from preciousgurl.

For her, it was likely a much bigger deal.

Update: preciousgurl's sim is back running. Hooray!

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On 11/27/2020 at 11:07 AM, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Tough if you don't like it. Their company their rules. Not for you or anyone to decide what is fair or not since you're not in control and never will be.

A lot of companies completely shut down for the holidays. Does not matter if you think is fair or right or not. Just because you had to work the holidays because of the job you chose to work at.

Anger issues much or are you a Linden? I've been a first responder and know what it's like to work every holiday away from family. She/ he could be too. Why the 'tude mate? Chill.

Edited by RangiUtu
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16 minutes ago, RangiUtu said:

Anger issues much or are you a Linden? I've been a first responder and know what it's like to work every holiday away from family. She/ he could be too. Why the 'tude mate? Chill.

no attitude at all, just simple truth. not all companies do or have to require their employees to work the holidays even if they provide a 24/7 service. just because secondlife itself and the forums does not shut down, doesn't mean they have to have a full support staff available on the holidays. because a normal person will wait until the next day instead of panic or complain like an entitlement minded child.

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