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Ivanda Levasseur

do we have any consumer rights in SL?

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Unfortunately, Linden Lab will not get involved in disputes between residents and certainly not when it involves third party web sites over which it has absolutely no authority or control. You will have to try and sort matters out with Amaretto.

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13 hours ago, Nemesis Blackheart said:

I f You Ask me Linden Labs Needs to have Claims Filed against them Since the Digital Trust Act is clear that "Any Company operating  as a Digital Entity Is Obligated By Law to Provide Service on any Digitally Copyrighted Products Sold It Is this copyright that determines the Law and the companies Obligations to Provide customer services to the consumers."

Since Linden Labs Wont get involved with this complaint And By Law they should since it is the Labs Hosting this Dealer On their Website system then I would contact the  BBB and file a fraud complaint against amaretto Breedables LLC

Chances are that this law you speak of didn't exist when this thread was created back in 2011.

Furthermore, such laws don't apply as Linden Lab is providing everything they promise to give you: access. And that is all they promise. if you don't believe me, read the TOS.

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Unfortunately, Linden Lab will not get involved in disputes between residents and certainly not when it involves third party web sites over which it has absolutely no authority or control. You will have to try and sort matters out with Amaretto.

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Unfortunately, what Nyll say is true. You really do not have many options; talking to Amaretto is pretty much it.

I suppose you could try to bring it up with some RL consumer rights organisation, but I imagine it's not worth it money or time wise.

- Luc -

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@Luc. Good point about an RL consumer group. If thousands of USD are involved as Ivanda mentions, maybe it would be worth going down that road.

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Yes, SL issues have been dealt with in RL before, so it is possible. And from what Ivanda says, Amaretto has a RL precense as well on the net. Don't really know whether it matters or not, though.

 

Regardless, if someone spends thousands of $ (US or Linden) on a companys products in SL, I think the customer *really* should be treated rather well. This, without knowing any specifics, does not seem to be the case here... But, like you say, that is up to the merchant to decide.

 

- Luc -

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Hi Ivanda,

I am sorry to hear about your issues. There is no central customer organization in virtual worlds as there are some in different countries where you can get help and support. As was already told Linden Lab will not involve in disputes between  Residents. However please keep in mind that Linden Lab already have much work with keeping an eye on TOS rules. Fortunatly the money lost is usually not huge. However the emotional lost is sometimes hard to estimate. So... 

I have noticed imporant thing in Second Life. Because the risk is very high people start to ask about opinion about shops and merchants first. The word of mouth marketing works very well and very ofthen these are only satisfied customers. So people start to buy only when they look at opinions at Marketplace carefuly and ask other customers in groups. Every good shop has its own group where chat is available. I think that in the future the awarness of customer rights will grow and the way how customers are treated is/will be one of success factors for merchants.

You have written about agent. I am not sure if it means owner of that website. Sometimes people hire employees who are not ready to deal with customers. Everyone can make a mistake. You should talk directly to the owner of the service.

If you are long term customer you can write in a note card how much you have spent, what is your opinion and what issues you have noticed and how the service can be improved. And of course you have right to ask about taking the ban off. It doesn't matter if the opinion is on website or sent via note card, right? Actually you need to know what do you want. Do you want the money back? Do you want just to express your opinion and be heard? Do you want to help with service improvement? 

Remember that many people in vrtual worlds have not much in common with being merchant in first life. So their knowledge with customer service, especially not satisfied customer service is none. Of course there is second side of the problem. Some think that there always will be new customer who will buy the product because of huge Residents rotation. In this case that is merchant strategy. This is why long term Residents ask first around about the quality of service, spend money very carefuly and also keep on coming back to the same merchants. And these merchants win because service for satisfied customers is less time/energy consuming and they get free marketing via word of mouth. :)

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In SL you have no rights at all and LL will not get involved in resident to resident disputes. Having said that. Amaretto is an Limited Liabilty Corporation from Moreno Valley CA. and goes by the name of Amaretto Ranch Breedables, LLC so if you have a complaint you may certainly do so through the Better Business Bureau. 

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@Luc, filing a formal complaint through the BBB does not cost any money and in my opinion is far more effective than filing an AR through LL. 

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I just have to add that I have personally have not had any problems with Amaretto but I have heard many horror stories with people who have and it is very alarming to know how you can pour a lot of money (yes a lot of money and the thousands stated by OP is not an exaggeration, I at one point was pouring a lot of money into these things), and the products you have paid for can be easily be made to poof at any time by one person only because they disagree with you or was offended by a comment you have made. Who knows, by posting on this thread any of us may be banned from purchasing these products. 

It would be great if those who have actually had problems with Amaretto filed a formal complaint with BBB. If enough people did so it would trigger an investigation and set a precedent to future SL merchants who try to hide behind the anonymity of SL and make merchants be more aware on how they treat their costumers. The average merchant does not make huge money on SL but these people who make breedables are a whole different monster and certainly do make enough money to be treated as a real business and thus need to be held liable for their actions and business practices as any real business would.

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@Identity. Very well written reply and good advice. Massive kudos!

 

@Darren. Thank you for the info! It was a thought I had but not knowing how something like that would work outside my own country.

 

- Luc -

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when it comes to Real Life Business Entities and Business Ethics

LLC= Limited Liability Corporation Maybe this was true when they were Lying to you and the Labs But After Doing some research On this Company Here is what i discovered When a LLC applies For an Incorporation License they fall under a Whole new Category and are Obligated By several laws to provide upon Demand to the General Public Financial records Fiscal Data and Sales Revenues along with Proper Support and Product Replacement and as such Provide all data and information to their customers and companies they do business within.

Sucks when you Know Everything about legal Contracts and Incorporation Filings

Only Question To ask Now Is Has Amaretto Ranch Breedables Filed for their S.E.C.C. License to Hold a Publically traded License As they claim to be Publically Traded on Dun and Bradstreet?

AMARETTO RANCH BREEDABLES LLC

 

Moreno Valley, CA 92557

 

Phone: Not Available (Why Because No One likes to have their customers Calling them Over a Product they made to fail)

California Department Of Business Records:

Amaretto Breedables LLC

d.b.a. Amaretto Ranch Breedables Inc.

Incorporated: 05/2011

According to California State Laws this Company Is Obligated to Provide Sound support for their products Without Prejudice Linden Labs Should Have a Support Forum for business Engaging in Fraudulent Practices Or Risk Lawsuit For Failure to Provide Such Services along with Condoning such Business Practices

LL Knows all About What this business is Doing to the End Users and they dont do a Damned thing to stop It as long as they get their Money monthly Why should they care You need to Report the LLabs along with ARB to California BBB and Calif Attorney Generals office for Fraud.

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Above is Just for Business ethics and Information How you choose to pursue this is entirely at your discretion I harbor no grudges with this company and or its affiliates research often times proves to be worth the time taken to investigate However Linden Labs Cannot control how a business regulates or conducts itself because each business has no authority to oversee nor govern it again its something you would have to investigate But the best Course of action to take is Quit Buying from this business and Move On

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:matte-mostes-impa:matte-motes-impatient:tient:  same here I am following the same problem up,please IM me with your case details if you wish

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On 5/27/2011 at 1:17 AM, Nyll Bergbahn said:

@Luc. Good point about an RL consumer group. If thousands of USD are involved as Ivanda mentions, maybe it would be worth going down that road.

You cannot possibly spend one single U.S. Dollar or British Pound or Euro in SL. It is a practical impossibility. Cannot. Be. Done.

You buy LINDEN DOLLARS with legal tender. You can only spend LINDEN DOLLARS inside Second Life. LINDEN DOLLARS has been legally deemed to be a "TRADING TOKEN" - it's not even considered to be any kind of currency in a legal sense. Any kind of complaint regarding how much is spent for product or services received inside SL can only go through any legal process is if it is between you and Linden Lab, as they are the only ones dealing with legal tender in any fashion.

Edited by Alyona Su
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Wow - someone's post got SO DEMOTED that it looked like most recent and I replied Bahahahaha. No sense in that now so this post is incinerated.

Edited by Alyona Su
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23 minutes ago, Nemesis Blackheart said:

there is a way

i wished there was a way to force people letting a 7 yr old subject go.

Leave it alone or make a lawsuit about it, don't keep reviving the old thing.

Edited by Ethan Paslong
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Fortunately there is a way

Linden Research Is a Private Non Publically traded company Based in SF CA and under the 

  1. U.S. CodeTitle 17Chapter 5 › § 512

Linden Research Cannot be held liable for ANY  wrongdoing for amaretto breedables LLC However You May File a Lawsuit Under this title since Amaretto breedables LLC is operating In Direct Violation Of the TOS Agreement  By Amaretto Breedables LLC Failure to Provide Digital Goods and Or Services

AB LLC is Only allowed By Law 7 Years to Operate Under any Limited Liability Corporation While Not Providing Proper or Legitimate Customer service as Provided by the TOS of any and all Amaretto Breedables Products Goods Or Services  Digital Content Laws Specifically Dictate that Any business Operating that fails to provide  the Digital Goods or Services can Under this Title Code May Be Held fully accountable for failure to provide said goods and services

Legal action against this company Would Be your best course of action Since you paid with US currency for goods and services and thus they were NOT provided by this Entity

Linden Research  Cannot Help You In fat they are useless at this point since their ideas of Customer service is a total joke and should be revamped itself You as the User Have No Rights whatsoever But Try using the Media to prove your case LL and ABLLC may take notice and want to settle this quickly and quietly so they dont lose face to their Shareholders or Investors

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I f You Ask me Linden Labs Needs to have Claims Filed against them Since the Digital Trust Act is clear that "Any Company operating  as a Digital Entity Is Obligated By Law to Provide Service on any Digitally Copyrighted Products Sold It Is this copyright that determines the Law and the companies Obligations to Provide customer services to the consumers."

Since Linden Labs Wont get involved with this complaint And By Law they should since it is the Labs Hosting this Dealer On their Website system then I would contact the  BBB and file a fraud complaint against amaretto Breedables LLC

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