Jump to content

FIX GROUP CHAT ->> LINDEN RESEARCH INC.


You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 162 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

It's a legitimate complaint when a social networking system can't deliver messages.

Meanwhile, there's Discord.

(Twitter interview question: "How would you design a system so that when a celebrity sends a message to a million followers, they all get it within 3 seconds?")

Edited by animats
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, animats said:

(Twitter interview question: "How would you design a system so that when a celebrity sends a message to a million followers, they all get it within 3 seconds?)

I would inject microchips at birth.

Also, Discord is an amazing substitute to anything group related in SL, or anything else.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a big fan of Discord tbh.  It feels more like a forum than chat to me which is not what I want from a chat.  Chat should be forgotten quickly unless you happen to be observing but Discord stores everything so you can scroll back and read it all permanently.  Lots of chatter needs to be forgotten.  On a forum we at least have the illusion that people consider what they are posting with that in mind (haha I know, right?).  It's also too much "outside of SL" for me and I would rather be chatting in SL.  I can see how it might be a useful tool for people who run support groups but it's just not for me.

I hope that group chat is resolved soon but I will wait it out until it is.  There is nothing that urgent for me that cannot wait.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'm not a big fan of Discord tbh.  It feels more like a forum than chat to me which is not what I want from a chat.  Chat should be forgotten quickly unless you happen to be observing but Discord stores everything so you can scroll back and read it all permanently.  Lots of chatter needs to be forgotten.

Local chat, IMs, and group chat can be logged permanently. Discord can also be set up so that messages are permanently deleted after some time. (Or even with a back-up archive of the chat history so moderators can go back and review what happened.)

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Local chat, IMs, and group chat can be logged permanently. Discord can also be set up so that messages are permanently deleted after some time. (Or even with a back-up archive of the chat history so moderators can go back and review what happened.)

Discord logs it all centrally for all to read though, even if they weren't there at the time.  Even if some people log group chats and keep it forever it isn't the same.  A person cannot just scroll back forever until the beginning of the group in SL.  A person who wasn't in the group chat cannot read the entire group chat including what they missed unless someone passes the entire chat log of the group to them which I would hazard a guess is rare unlike the 100% of the time that someone can scroll back in Discord.  Even if you set messages to delete after a period of time, that still doesn't work the same.  A person can always scroll back to that point at least.

I doubt Discord can be configured so that if you weren't observing that group then you don't get to see what was said so again, it isn't the same and it changes the dynamic enough for me.  You clearly like it so I really don't expect you to understand what I prefer about the way SL groups work vs. Discord.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
clarified thoughts. added quote
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Discord logs it all centrally for all to read though, even if they weren't there at the time.  Even if some people log group chats and keep it forever it isn't the same.  A person cannot just scroll back forever until the beginning of the group in SL.  A person who wasn't in the group chat cannot read the group chat that they missed unless someone passes the entire chat log of the group to them which I would hazard a guess is rare unlike the 100% of the time that someone can scroll back in Discord.  Even if you set messages to delete after a period of time, that still doesn't work the same.  A person can always scroll back to that point at least.

I doubt Discord can be configured so that if you weren't observing that group then you don't get to see what was said so again, it isn't the same and it changes the dynamic enough for me.  You clearly like it so I really don't expect you to understand what I prefer about the way SL groups work vs. Discord.

I actually don't use Discord all that much, I mainly have it because some of my friends use it.

I respect that you don't like it (and I wasn't trying to deny that -- just adding information for those unaware), but its features can't really be dismissed. It's very flexible and can accomodate a lot of different needs that simply can't be done in SL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I actually don't use Discord all that much, I mainly have it because some of my friends use it.

I respect that you don't like it (and I wasn't trying to deny that -- just adding information for those unaware), but its features can't really be dismissed. It's very flexible and can accomodate a lot of different needs that simply can't be done in SL.

I said "You clearly like it", it wasn't a comment on how much I thought you used it.

I am not aware I dismissed anything.  You clearly can do things with it that you cannot do with groups in SL, it is clearly aimed at a different type of audience.  However you also cannot replicate group chat behaviour exactly or in the way that matters to me either, so it's suitability as an SL group chat substitute isn't as high in my opinion as it is in yours.  That's all.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2020 at 6:40 PM, Gabriele Graves said:

Discord logs it all centrally for all to read though, even if they weren't there at the time.  Even if some people log group chats and keep it forever it isn't the same.  A person cannot just scroll back forever until the beginning of the group in SL.  A person who wasn't in the group chat cannot read the entire group chat including what they missed unless someone passes the entire chat log of the group to them which I would hazard a guess is rare unlike the 100% of the time that someone can scroll back in Discord.  Even if you set messages to delete after a period of time, that still doesn't work the same.  A person can always scroll back to that point at least.

I doubt Discord can be configured so that if you weren't observing that group then you don't get to see what was said so again, it isn't the same and it changes the dynamic enough for me.  You clearly like it so I really don't expect you to understand what I prefer about the way SL groups work vs. Discord.

It's easy.
You can turn off the "View History" permission in Discord-server.
Members who were not connected at the same time will not be able to view history.
(but server-owner and other members with permission to view history can view).

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Mayumi Hirano said:

It's easy.
You can turn off the "View History" permission in Discord-server.
Members who were not connected at the same time will not be able to view history.
(but server-owner and other members with permission to view history can view).

That's good to know, thank you but sadly it doesn't make any difference in reality because every single Discord group I have tried (maybe 6-8 of the ones I care about) keep a lot (if not all) of the history and logging for all on.

So yes, if I wanted to create my own Discord and make it like an SL group chat, I could that (highly unlikely) but otherwise it doesn't entice me to start using Discord as a substitute for SL groups as that is out of my control.

Generally though...

I think the other part of this that I didn't mention is that unlike SL where to stay logged in and receive group chats it potentially takes a lot of resources, which discourages many, Discord doesn't.  So I expect many people stay logged in perhaps for days or weeks at a time.  That might sound like an advantage but again it changes the dynamic a lot because there are potentially far more people being easily able to stay connected for most of the time and feel inclined to do so.  When combined with retaining history for some unspecified period, you could expect comments and responses for things that happened a long time ago potentially.  Which again makes it more like a forum.  I wouldn't expect that for "chatting" which I see as more immediate and fleeting and which the SL group chats have that feel.  For example: Most people in groups don't respond to things said more than about 20mins ago.

On top of this you have the fact that for a lot of people in SL, the group chats are ancillary to their main activities and a lot probably don't have a lot of interest in what is said on groups a lot of the time, often just closing them when they pop-up in the middle of their activities without reading.

Don't get me wrong, for the people who love that about Discord and see it as an improvement I am glad they are happy.  However, which ever way you try to look at it, the dynamic of both Discord and SL group chat are fairly incomparable.

The SL groups I am interested in, before the main problems began some months ago, were so full of chatter at times, it was hard to keep track and do other things.   I haven't seen that with any of the those groups that went to Discord.  What I have observed on the Discord groups I have joined and were created to solve the SL group chat problems is that though lots of people are registered members, very few are chatting.  There is maybe 50-100 new posts on a good day and mostly from the the same handful of close followers of those groups, the "fans" if you will plus the mods and owners.  That tells me that the real take up for the ones I am interested in is very low despite the numbers even though they were far more active on SL group chat.  So really, if they don't have the activity, it doesn't really matter how good technically Discord is.

Activity is everything.
 

Edited by Gabriele Graves
Correction: removed partial phrase, more corrections.
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mayumi Hirano said:

If you're worried about resource consumption, you can use the web version of Discord.
However, if you want to use voice chat, the web version is not recommended.

Discord allows you to join 100 servers. More than the Second Life groups.
 

Why would anyone need that?  Personally, I have the majority of group chat turned off.  It always seemed like a few people were always in there talking about stuff that had nothing to do with the group.  Do people just use SL group chats just to find random people to talk to?  Send me a notice instead.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/20/2020 at 9:34 AM, RowanMinx said:

Why would anyone need that?  Personally, I have the majority of group chat turned off.  It always seemed like a few people were always in there talking about stuff that had nothing to do with the group.  Do people just use SL group chats just to find random people to talk to?  Send me a notice instead.

99.999% of all group chat:

 

Person1: hi

Person2: hello

Person3: Hey

Person4: tp me

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, AramintaLeRouge said:

Group chats are still messed up, I don't know how the status can say they are fixed.  I still can't open some, can't post in some etc.  It's still the same for me.

Group chat has never been "fixed" in the sense you're talking about. It always has (and always will) have spotty issues.

The thing Linden Lab fixed was only one specific issue, but "working as usual" is far from perfect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Want group chat "fixed"?

There's only one way to do so that won't involve a complete overhaul: Remove the ability to chat at all.

Groups were never intended for the uses they see now.

ETA: To be a bit clearer, they were intended to be used for Land Management - hence the ability to donate tier to Groups, set a Group to a parcel/Deed a parcel to a Group. Their secondary purpose evolved a bit later as Shop/Club/Event organization and Advertisement/Gift/Landmark/Notecard distribution.

Reiterating the above, with a somewhat finer point: They were not intended to be used as CS Portals, or for any form of generalized chatter (to name just two present 'uses').

Edited by Solar Legion
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I wouldn't care if Groups were removed, never mind Group Invective Distribution (aka Group Chat).  Discord is a much better way of doing Group Chat, and one less thing for the Linden Lab to worry about.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue here is very simple and as nothing to do with external products like discord or whatever you want to use.

Is that some that we where used to have working, suddenly stop doing so.

 

Same with the Map tiles not being shown.

There are priorities and then there is common sense.

Linden lab asked users to be patient.

Lets hope they are as eager as us; users , to see these issues solved.

 

 

Edited by foneco Zuzu
Rethinking
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 162 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...