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Landlords - payment direct to your Paypal/other account


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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I plan to stay longtime in a rental. I wonder if landlords have ever setup a way of receiving rent direct to an account outside SL?

I do not like that rental box system. I think it would be easier for me, to pay by setting up a monthly transfer of money.

will depend on the landlord.   the one I'm at has it setup, it uses a rental system,  almost everybody that would take it, will be like that for transaction security and to make sure payments and such are tracked for legal purposes. 

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3 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I plan to stay longtime in a rental. I wonder if landlords have ever setup a way of receiving rent direct to an account outside SL?

I do not like that rental box system. I think it would be easier for me, to pay by setting up a monthly transfer of money.

mine has a choice .. payment terminals for L$, no boxes at your land. And you can set up Paypal recurring payments, weeks and months.
He does it for many years this way, and easy to stop .. log in at the paypal website and end the subscription. ..(and ... if he would run... put a claim on your payment handled by PP)

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I use a rental meter through Casper, I'm not sure that direct Paypal methods are legit to do since its avoiding Lindens fees for processing credit. I hope that a Linden can chime in on this.

I prefer rental meter just for the purposes @bigmoe Whitfield mentioned. So that its tracked and unquestionable if something was to happen.

I am curious about the whole Paypal thing myself since someone did ask me about that a couple weeks ago. I think that its not allowed, but I could be wrong.

Inquiring minds...

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1 minute ago, SneakyBooger said:

I use a rental meter through Casper, I'm not sure that direct Paypal methods are legit to do since its avoiding Lindens fees for processing credit. I hope that a Linden can chime in on this.

I prefer rental meter just for the purposes @bigmoe Whitfield mentioned. So that its tracked and unquestionable if something was to happen.

I am curious about the whole Paypal thing myself since someone did ask me about that a couple weeks ago. I think that its not allowed, but I could be wrong.

Inquiring minds...

I mentioned the ability to pay via Paypal awhile ago and Grumpity didn't seem to want us to talk about that and it "seemed" like the bility to bypass Tilia might be reviewed in the future.  Happy to see some clarification (has nothing to do with me personally as I pay with linden dollars). Always good to know.

 

And to @Marianne Little my experiences in the past with Paypal payment have always been with expensive land or house rentals. I suspect that it isn't worth the hassle or fees maybe for the landlords to offer that ability if the prices are low.  I have had some places that went through a vendor system and others where you just paid manually once a month via Paypal.  

 

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8 hours ago, SneakyBooger said:

I am curious about the whole Paypal thing............I think that its not allowed, but I could be wrong.

 

i don't really see why. LL still gets the maintenance fees for the rented lands .. and if the renter gets his money from sales or even other rentals, LL won't even get any fees by Tillia from them.
If they gonna hurt this market again, they will feel the pain themself i'm affraid. .. sooner or later they going to forbid monthly payments? Weekly brings more L$ transactions - more fees, ...let's not bring htem on ideas. ')

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On 11/9/2020 at 1:10 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

i don't really see why. LL still gets the maintenance fees for the rented lands .. and if the renter gets his money from sales or even other rentals, LL won't even get any fees by Tillia from them.
If they gonna hurt this market again, they will feel the pain themself i'm affraid. .. sooner or later they going to forbid monthly payments? Weekly brings more L$ transactions - more fees, ...let's not bring htem on ideas. ')

I don't see how LL could possibly ban residents' PayPal payments to each other -- it is not a process they can control as it is outside their servers. A tenant who makes such agreement runs the risk of not having any record proving the relationship to SL other than the landlord's business name and reputation. LL does not get involved in resident-to-resident disputes, so whether you pay in Lindens or by PayPal, if you are suddenly evicted you have no recourse.

For the Lindens to police this would require an enormous amount of intrusion -- monitoring chat or requiring landlords to make written statements or even possibly putting land rentals into the "about land" menu as a feature (something I would oppose as it reduces landlord's flexibility and taxes them and would likely tax them again after they've already been taxes on Marketplace purchases, Linden purchases, and cashout fees). 

The problem with having PayPal payments for weekly rentals is that unless it is for a large amount -- say for a homestead or a significant sized rental of say $25 a week or really more, the charges you have to pay to PayPal regardless of LL may be too great.

So it might be a convenience and savings to a renter -- they don't have to buy Lindens and pay the costs of purchasing Lindens. But then the landlord will find it hard to collect more from the renter than the equivalent of a Linden transaction to cover his fees on a business account. Example: let's say you charge $1500/week for a 4096 on an island, or $6000 a month. That's US $24 at current rates of about $4 per 1000 Lindens.  Even charging that in today's market you are at the high end of the market in a world where people charge as low as US $12 (I charge the equivalent of $18.72 for example).

If you receive $24 on a PayPal business account, you would pay a fee of 2.9% and also the $0.30 per transaction, which works out to about a dollar, so that you receive $23. Just as you can't expect a tenant to pay your cashout fees from rentals paid in Lindens (that has to be a cost you factor in to the price), you can't expect them to pay an extra dollar for PayPal fees from a direct PayPal payment-- the whole point of the exercise is for the tenant to avoid paying more fees. 

Some landlords might do this as a courtesy and because they net slightly more from a direct PayPal transaction -- because to cash out the $6000 Lindens, which is $24 currently on the LindEx at the best rates is not that big a difference -- the landlord would still have to pay another 3% to Tilia to cash out to PayPal and receive $23.28 gross. But then he also pays PayPal's fee in addition, which leaves him with  $22.58, i.e. US $0.42 less. 

This might seem as if it is an advantage but then the landlord can't provide automatic refunds through a scripted rental box as he could in Lindens and he would not have sufficient operating cash for content purchase, salaries to staff, and other expenses, forcing him to buy Linden dollars which is more expensive then. There is the extra bookkeeping of having to match an inworld name with the real-life name used on a PayPal transaction and keeping track of rental expirations inworld and PayPal payments expected. All of this is doable and is done by rental agents with large rentals like homesteads.

It's about the psychology of it in a way -- a landlord or content creator expects that in bulk, all his proceeds are going to be charged a fee when he cashes them out. That is expected. But in a PayPal transaction, he may have the expectation of getting the equivalent of an inworld price -- and he won't due to PayPal's fees.

I personally think it's too great a chore but I have a small rentals operation. For someone dealing with hundreds of dollars in private islands and homesteads, it likely works out better for them. Yet I have the impression that a lot of transactions are still in Lindens. I would have to figure out if it is cheaper to pay tier in Lindens cashed out at the LindEx fees rather than pay it directly. Likely it is not, but it is more convenient and the rates can fluctuate.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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On 11/8/2020 at 4:46 PM, SneakyBooger said:

I use a rental meter through Casper, I'm not sure that direct Paypal methods are legit to do since its avoiding Lindens fees for processing credit. I hope that a Linden can chime in on this.

I prefer rental meter just for the purposes @bigmoe Whitfield mentioned. So that its tracked and unquestionable if something was to happen.

I am curious about the whole Paypal thing myself since someone did ask me about that a couple weeks ago. I think that its not allowed, but I could be wrong.

Inquiring minds...

It is true that you personally have a record on "My Accounts" that shows a purchase in Lindens if you pay in Lindens. But you cannot use this for any dispute to achieve justice because LL will not get involved in personal disputes between residents.

So your "more solid" record of an automatic receipt created in "My Accounts" is really not worth more than a PayPal record receipt showing your real name and the business name of the landlord, even if either side marks it "for Second Life rental". The "My Accounts" record feels "more solid" but it is as worthless as a PayPal receipt would be in attempting any action because LL simply refuses to deal with such disputes.

The only advantage is that if a rental box that promises a refund and malfunctions, you and the landlord both have records of transactions on "My Accounts" and you can then back up the request for a refund. You have receipts on PayPal as well but it is that much more attenuated and difficult because of name discrepancies and because a transaction may not be covered by the business protection PayPal offers. 

I don't think the Lindens will "chime in". I think it's an area that they do not wish to approve or ban because it is not something they can police properly. If they pronounce on it, their lawyers may say they are binding themselves to some action. 

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LL does not take much compared to VAT. But at the moment, VAT is not applied to buying §L.

VAT has effectively killed the point of having Premium, and also paying tier directly to LL for me. It is literally a fifth increase on both. Renting is cheaper now - from the right rental. I have found one who is a very low priced, compared to others.

On the other side, maybe PayPal would start to take VAT, if EU demand they apply it on spent money. I don't know the rules.

My country is not a member of EU, but have to pay VAT since May. 😡 It only goes to lining pockets of bureaucrats 💩 in EU... Driving in their limousines and flying private jets. 🤬

Edited by Marianne Little
added a few words to clarify
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