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5 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

I'm going to reiterate something I posted upthread, just so that anyone reading this fully understands and I am going to do so in the most attention catching way possible:

Overclocking your hardware is done at the BIOS level - that is before your Operating System even begins to start.

There now, hopefully those capable of listening, actually will.

 

5 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

I'm going to reiterate something I posted upthread, just so that anyone reading this fully understands and I am going to do so in the most attention catching way possible:

Overclocking your hardware is done at the BIOS level - that is before your Operating System even begins to start.

There now, hopefully those capable of listening, actually will.

You're still not very bright, are you? I guess you didn't read what I already wrote, it probably flew over your head. So let's re-paste:

2B. Yeah, I know. You think it's oh-so-brainy to let us know that "overclock" technically refers to changes to the motherboard and not to the power switch. But so what? It doesn't matter. The USAGE of this term is DIFFERENT than what you imagine as many, many more people now have computers besides you, a programmer or specialist. And especially when you look at "2B" here, you realize why. I realize this is very hard to grasp or accept. But that's the case. I hear it all the time even from people who know considerably more about computers than me. You're simply not correct that all it does is let your computer go to sleep. It enables your computer to work at higher speeds. Different. Whether you "touched" the motherboard or clicked on a switch, your computer works harder to play SL; the fan burns out. Even when it is ventilated. Even when you bought a better one. The end. That this is disputed is one of the marvels of science.

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8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

But I do pay it. :)

If you're aware of any unpaid weeks, total them up and let me know. I don't intentionally skip out. I'll pay a full month's rent for each missed week, then I'll move out.

Overclocking is dangerous and can definitely harm your hardware, of course. Nobody in this thread has denied that, even I'm too scared to overclock. What is being denied is that the power settings in Windows is not the same thing as overclocking. It does not cause your processor to speed up beyond the manufacturer's limit. I don't know how to explain this to you any clearer than that. The source you're citing to disagree with me does not disagree with me, because it's talking about a different thing than you.

Processors don't work at the same speed all the time. When your computer is doing nothing, the processor will slow down. When you're doing something more intense like watching a livestream, installing programs, or playing Second Life, your processor's clock-speed will increase on its own. This is not what we call overclocking because it's a natural occurrence in computers. Overclocking means specifically to increase the processor's clock-speed over the manufacturer's standard, as explained by your article.

I don't think I have to "admit" something that I think is inherently true. I haven't tried to imply anything on the contrary. Of course there are advanced settings that most people won't touch or even look at. Let's do that now. Here are the advanced settings, which is everything a power plan will change:

d7c9229e0c.png

If we expand the "Processor power management" part: (Which I think is most relevant, the others are mainly just on/off switches or timers to turn things off.)

00a09beb60.png

I think this is fairly self-explanatory. You can quickly compare the different modes by selecting them from the above dropdown. "High Performance" differs by increasing the minimum processor state.

To circle back to what was originally suggested at the start of this thread, "Power Saver" will use "Passive" cooling policy, which means the processor will slow down first, and then the fans start if needed. ("Active" cooling means the fans will always be cooling down the computer.) I think this is bad for many reasons, but saving power is not one of them.

If your power plan is already set to Balanced (like yours is), you might not even notice a difference from increasing it if your processor is already increasing itself to maximum speed. In cases where the processor is strong enough to idle even when programs are being used, increasing the minimum state should help. Otherwise it's a waste of power like you've said.

Stop projecting, this is beyond childish. (I didn't see it coming though, points for that.)

1. Paying a rental months after it is due later doesn't count as good karma, it's a reason most landlords would have expelled you.

2. Note the original poster is not talking about overclocking or motherboards; he's talking about the much simpler concept of changing the power usage switch on more advanced models. And that's exactly what does burn out your computer; and again, some people even who should supposedly know better use the term "overclock" for *that* and *it doesn't matter*. The point is, what the OP boosts performance *may* do that -- IF you have an advanced model -- but it may not, as manufacturers and computer web sites explain to you. The notion of "advanced" is subjective.

3. Once again -- as I've said it already but isn't penetrating -- overclocking is a specialized term that means changes to the motherboard, not the power panel. I got that years ago before this discussion and during it. The point is many people use the term "overclock" to mean BOTH -- the specialized activity AND the power activity. After all, "overclock" is a word that existed even before computers. This common usage is not penetrating to you; will never penetrate to you; and I don't care. The more relevant point is that changing the power switch burns out your computer. It is not using it as intended. If some oh-so-sophisticated geek expert thinks his computer is better than mine and his doing of that is a boon and not a burn-out, that's great, but actually, I think even among his peers he will find people who say he is wrong and their experience is different.

4. What people like you don't realize is that your own peers call you out all the time on various other sites where your fellow geeks don't close the threads.

5. The attitude of the former There.com CEO is very common among you all on the forums, and your belief that There.com didn't send out a graphics card but only a drivers updater reflects that. 

6. It may be hard for you to believe but a) I'm not a chump who arranges my life around what the Lindens say on their specs b) I use my computer for many other things than SL which also help burn it out. But SL is very hard on the average computer. Don't pretend you suddenly care about people's computers being burned out over the Lindens specs being out of date because you don't. And didn't when I raised it. That's easily established.

SL is a big place, I'm sure you'll find another rental easily, and possibly even one who lets you go past your due date.

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Separate post here, tackling something a bit more directly.

How some use a particular term when talking about their hardware and settings is quite irrelevant - each term has a specific meaning. They have these meanings for a reason. If you misuse these terms you will (rightly) be given more than a bit of "side-eye" while those doing so likely laugh (at least internally) at you.

Changing your power settings within your Operating System is ... changing your power settings from within your Operating System. That's it.

What does this mean?

It means that - and bear with me in case I am going too fast for you - you are altering how your system uses the hardware within expected norms or within manufacturer's specifications. If doing something that simple and safe causes your hardware to burn out then your hardware was not up to the job - simple as that. Burning out your cooling fans goes under the same canopy, though burning those out ought to be a warning that you're pushing your hardware too hard. It can also mean you need to dust more often.

Some of this goes hand in hand with making sure each program you use is set up properly for your individual machine. Generalized settings/presets/recommendations are nothing more than suggestions and should be tweaked so that your individual PC runs each program to the best of its ability without causing additional stress.

This is sometimes going to mean altering settings using utilities outside the intended program and that's perfectly fine.

Pay attention and be smart about what you do and you won't go burning out your hardware.

Oh yes, and the above is more or less why most computer hardware has a range of usability - a set amount of time (usually measured in years) that the hardware is expected to function, barring defects or other issues. The shortest/minimum time assumes working the hardware at or near the manufacturer's upper limits for normal use (this includes setting your Power Management to the High Performance profile) whereas the longest time assumes you're being extra careful with the hardware.

On average the actual time until a part fails is somewhere between those two values. If a part fails before that minimum time, there is generally a defect, some environmental issue or even user error at fault.

It really doesn't matter how many times some rant, rave and rail against the above - it doesn't change what is.

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Separate post here, tackling something a bit more directly.

How some use a particular term when talking about their hardware and settings is quite irrelevant - each term has a specific meaning. They have these meanings for a reason. If you misuse these terms you will (rightly) be given more than a bit of "side-eye" while those doing so likely laugh (at least internally) at you.

Changing your power settings within your Operating System is ... changing your power settings from within your Operating System. That's it.

What does this mean?

It means that - and bear with me in case I am going too fast for you - you are altering how your system uses the hardware within expected norms or within manufacturer's specifications. If doing something that simple and safe causes your hardware to burn out then your hardware was not up to the job - simple as that. Burning out your cooling fans goes under the same canopy, though burning those out ought to be a warning that you're pushing your hardware too hard. It can also mean you need to dust more often.

Some of this goes hand in hand with making sure each program you use is set up properly for your individual machine. Generalized settings/presets/recommendations are nothing more than suggestions and should be tweaked so that your individual PC runs each program to the best of its ability without causing additional stress.

This is sometimes going to mean altering settings using utilities outside the intended program and that's perfectly fine.

Pay attention and be smart about what you do and you won't go burning out your hardware.

Oh yes, and the above is more or less why most computer hardware has a range of usability - a set amount of time (usually measured in years) that the hardware is expected to function, barring defects or other issues. The shortest/minimum time assumes working the hardware at or near the manufacturer's upper limits for normal use (this includes setting your Power Management to the High Performance profile) whereas the longest time assumes you're being extra careful with the hardware.

On average the actual time until a part fails is somewhere between those two values. If a part fails before that minimum time, there is generally a defect, some environmental issue or even user error at fault.

It really doesn't matter how many times some rant, rave and rail against the above - it doesn't change what is.

SOLAR LEGION'S SARCASM BURNS LIKE THE SUN AND IS MANY!

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I don't know if any sharp eyes tethered in this world and not extraterrestrial will have noticed, but on my computer, there isn't even a setting "advanced" because...it's not advanced. It's like an $800- Best Buy or it's an $800 Amazon purchase.

So that means it is not set beyond its capacity.

Furthermore, though various people who repair computers who put adds in the shoppers who don't know what they are doing may speak of "overclocking" or my son may say to "overclock," I'm mindful of a) my electric bill and b) my computer not burning out so it is NOT overclocked.

So the attentive reader would read what I wrote about which is a) a fan b) a better graphics card.

Such "better graphic card" to play SL in a computer that originally had one that wasn't to spec at all needs a fan -- and got one. So it's not about power switches or overclocking but a better card and a fan -- and a fan that still burned out. Then Best Buy wouldn't replace it because it was "after market" even if in their own store.

The end.

In cases like this I have my son buy a fan and put it in. But I also just got another computer because I got tired of having to put in parts to a crappy computer to make it play SL. This one has no overclocking, no added or different fan, no nothing. It's some kind of turbo gaming computer with flashing lights that my son got on Amazon which is really stupid as I don't need anything to be flashing nor do I play games.

As you do.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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6 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

Oh for crying out loud will someone PLEASE ban Prok for here again? I am so tired of hearing the same idiotic ranting time and time again.

It's typical of the forums that your threshold is very high for Solar Region ranting and raging and clicking on every post I write and disliking it. You don't even notice his posts or his ranting in big capital letters etc. You would only notice if I answer back in the same way. But any minute now, a Linden will come running to the whistle of a fanboy, as the pudgy little fingers of legions of solar heros on the AR button will summon them from their slumber.

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On 11/21/2020 at 12:50 PM, Jackson Redstar said:

there is almost no excuse not to build your own these days. There are sites with compatibility charts galore, and dozens of youtube channels for step by step building (even though the latest trends of see through cases and all the led lights inside is a wee bit ,,, lame lol)

It's worth contemplating the idea that Second Life should grow by having legions of people "build their own" means...it won't grow. Hey, go to "New Egg" and get those parts and go wild, kids.

When you go to the dentist, he doesn't tell you to buy a dental pick and clean your own teeth next time. A doctor doesn't suggest you pick up some tools at Home Depot and operate on your hand that weekend. 

It's because in advanced industrial societies, there is what we call "division of labour".

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But any minute now, a Linden will come running to the whistle of a fanboy, as the pudgy little fingers of legions of solar heros on the AR button will summon them from their slumber.

Have you considered that, if a Linden does react against you, it's entirely because of the way you sling insults around and are acting extremely hostile?

Like I haven't insulted you, neither directly or indirectly. Your posts on the other hand are almost nothing but direct personal insults.

I don't generally appreciate the sneaky reactions some people (including Solar) leave on posts, but that absolutely doesn't justify your own toxicity.

The course of this thread can be summed up as:

  1. "Hey, change your power settings, worked for me."
  2. "Actually don't do that, your computer will blow out."
  3. "Actually it's completely safe, with few exceptions."
  4. "Shut up you fat ** arrogant geek, you don't even pay me enough, how the ** dare you!"
Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Have you considered that, if a Linden does react against you, it's entirely because of the way you sling insults around and are acting extremely hostile?

Like I haven't insulted you, neither directly or indirectly. Your posts on the other hand are almost nothing but direct personal insults.

I don't generally appreciate the sneaky reactions some people (including Solar) leave on posts, but that absolutely doesn't justify your own toxicity.

The course of this thread can be summed up as:

  1. "Hey, change your power settings, worked for me."
  2. "Actually don't do that, your computer will blow out."
  3. "Actually it's completely safe, with few exceptions."
  4. "Shut up you fat ** arrogant geek, you don't even pay me enough, how the ** dare you!"

No, let's summarize what this thread actually is about.

1. "Hey, I'm a power user with a fancy computer who got my computer to run faster by changing the advanced power settings."

2. "Hey, the problem is that even when you put in a better graphics card and fan to cool that card putting on those settings is risky and leads to burnout. 

3. "Hey, the Lindens specs are out of date."

4. "You're using a word wrongly even though Qi will explain how it is used generally and specifically in ways you don't imagine".

5. "You should build your own computer using YouTube videos."

6. "There.com understood that to reach their female users, they needed to literally send them graphic cards as they won't have them. But their misogynist CEO disparaged his user base by calling them fat 30-somethings, single with no life."

This was cited to exemplify the male geek put-down available in every thread like this. If you're female, and of a certain age, and think this quotation applied to you, you don't get that it was quoted to illustrated geek culture and how nasty it was. It wouldn't apply to you, whether male, female, fat, or 30, if in fact you knew how to install graphic cards or disparage other's use of the word "overclocked".

Shorter SL forums: Learn to code.

That should do it. Solve the world's problems. If everyone would learn to code, there'd be no virus.

What I truly marvel at is how someone like you and others in these threads endlessly snark and disparage and talk down to people you imagine are stupider than you if they don't have your rote learning set about computers, and if they simply push back, that is "being hostile". That's "a personal insult". There's nothing insulting in anything I've said. Quoting the There.com is a citation of male geek culture; it's not to chime in with him and mock 30-something fat girls. You all are in your toxic code culture of "Benign Dictator" and all the rest for so long that the slightest normal response, the slightest citation of a fact that doesn't align with yours becomes *their* toxicity. It's the same mechanism as the Wokinistas enforcing woke culture so SL gives you good practice for that.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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@Prokofy NevaNo one thinks you are stupid, Prok.

No, we find your inability to react in a sane way to comments made by folk offering solutions to your issues irritating and frustrating.

Some folk react themselves in a snide and intolerant way.  That is a typical attitude found in online fora of all types.

There is a much-used aphorism "don't feed the troll" .  In this thread there must be enough nourishment for a year of trolling.

It has been a dialogue of the deaf and for me it ends here.

Until you learn to listen to constructive criticism and learn from others (some of whom really DO know what they are talking about), this thread is redundant and your issues will remain unaddressed.

Edited by Aishagain
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2 hours ago, Aishagain said:

@Prokofy NevaNo one thinks you are stupid, Prok.

No, we find your inability to react in a sane way to comments made by folk offering solutions to your issues irritating and frustrating.

Some folk react themselves in a snide and intolerant way.  That is a typical attitude found in online fora of all types.

There is a much-used aphorism "don't feed the troll" .  In this thread there must be enough nourishment for a year of trolling.

It has been a dialogue of the deaf and for me it ends here.

Until you learn to listen to constructive criticism and learn from others (some of whom really DO know what they are talking about), this thread is redundant and your issues will remain unaddressed.

There isn't any "constructive criticism" from people who first fail utterly to grasp a simple computer problem because they are so knowier-than-thou, then spend round after round mocking and insulting you because they think you don't grasp the oh-so-specialized meaning of "overclocking". Anyone outside of your bubble can see this.

The problem with this advice -- again -- is that it applies to people who are "in the know" and have "advanced computers". But these are very subjective concepts. So any dweeb may read this and think "ima make my game go faster". As I did probably 12 or 14 years ago when I first heard this.

Let me explain again that I now have a computer that doesn't even have the option to change the power settings as the OP indicate, and naturally as a non-geek I'm not going to be tinkering with BIOS settings. Here it is again -- note that it has no "Ultimate" option at all, so that dummies won't use it on a crappy computer:

So that means I physically cannot make these changes which doesn't bewilder me because I realize that I don't have a hand-built computer from New Egg parts built like artisanal omelletes complete with little turnip shavings on top.

Again -- because it keeps eluding you and flying over your head -- my previous computer simply burnt out having the power settings upped too far than was good for a computer constantly playing SL -- this is a reality and that it is disputed is demented. Next I got that fan and that graphics card -- but that mean the crappy computer in which it was housed plus playing SL a great deal then caused the fan to burnt out. Because it does. And not because there is no exhaust or airflow. My current computer has none of these things, nothing added, nothing subtracted, and nothing boosted. It's same stupid turbo gamer's computer with flashing lights my son got me.

It died already once within a year because it was a crappy cheap computer off the Internet. I remember the company failed to include the gizmo that makes the wifi work and I had to salvage that off the dead computer. The hard drive crashed and some Ukrainians on W. 37th St. replaced it for $250. Most people on this thread would either replace the hard drive themselves or never spend $250 because they would reason that it's almost like buying a new computer. But it's not. A new computer is $700. The Ukrainian guy is $250. This is completely normal and sane. 

My experience is valid, it's common, and it's widespread. Because don't have $2000 for a computer at one point in time nor can we build them; we have $700 and a coupon and a brother or son who can set it up. And that's normal, and that's what Linden Lab needs to work with, not you, because you aren't representative of anything but a tiny percentage of the population.

So again, my current computer was never boosted as to power or overclocked but it still broke down, due to SL or not, who knows because it's a lousy computer of the sort made fully or partly in China and shipped all over and breaking on the way. This is the life most people experience and it is valid experience.

Some 10 years or 15 years ago when I first heard some guy fixing my computer (from an ad in the shopper), I didn't know when he swaggered around and said "overclock" -- he had heard that's what the big boys say to signal they are "in the club" that he was talking nonsense. I didn't know it when my son -- same motivations -- used it when he changed the power switch. I didn't know it when three old aunties of mine discussed it on Sunday, the only day they turn on their computer to look at pictures of grand children. Or whatever. It has a usage that is wrong, but then that happens in life more than you know. And yet He-from-the-Sun-May-His-Purpleness-Be-Magnified-For-Ever thinks that I am gaslighting or moving goalposts or lying or pretending that only know I learned this oh-so-specialized used of "overclock," a word that has likely been around for the centuries since clocks were first invented. 

So you can keep blathering in self-righteousness about how I am not "taking advice" or "not accepting constructive criticism" but everyone *other than youz guyz* reading this gets it. They get it and clap me on the shoulders when they see me at an event. They just don't come on here themselves because they are frightened away.

I don't need this advice from the OP; it is advice that didn't work back when some ignoramus computer guy did it, or my junior high-school son; it won't work now for many who read this and don't get that it doesn't apply to them. I know that my current fan is likely to break; it can be replaced or the computer can be replaced; SL is hard on computers. The end.

 

064e0e2ad9d5843177d3fbf74b86d6c7 (1).png

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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12 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

That's bull*****.

Well, go ahead and give it your best shot, and explain how it is my fault for why a fan burns out within a year when:

o it is brand-new purchased with new computer

o the computer is regularly cleaned with spray

o it is not blocked and has full aeration and ventilation

If the factors are that it plays SL and also BOINC, yet BOINC's measurements are very visible (unlike SL's) and they provide visualization for you, so it's not likely, let me suggest that...a fan burning out isn't because I did something. I didn't. I didn't put the computer even on power maximum as suggested by the OP. So go ahead, make it about me, and make it not about SL. 

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3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, go ahead and give it your best shot, and explain how it is my fault for why a fan burns out within a year when:

Chill out, did I say it was your fault?

I said that's not how power management settings work. You know what mechanical devices all eventually do? They wear out. It doesn't matter how much you baby your computer, the mechanical components will wear out. Some, like your fan, faster than others. Changing the power setting isn't going to radically change that. They will all run the computer within the manufacturer's specifications. The explanation for your crappy fan crapping out short of its rated MTBF is more likely a manufacturing defect in the fan rather than anything you, Windows or Second Life did to it.

When you crank up SL, it's going to use whatever resources it needs, and changing the power settings is not going to let it push the hardware beyond the manufacturer's limits. You can cap CPU performance at less than 100% in the advanced settings you don't see. What you can't do there is exceed 100%.

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42 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Chill out, did I say it was your fault?

I said that's not how power management settings work. You know what mechanical devices all eventually do? They wear out. It doesn't matter how much you baby your computer, the mechanical components will wear out. Some, like your fan, faster than others. Changing the power setting isn't going to radically change that. They will all run the computer within the manufacturer's specifications. The explanation for your crappy fan crapping out short of its rated MTBF is more likely a manufacturing defect in the fan rather than anything you, Windows or Second Life did to it.

When you crank up SL, it's going to use whatever resources it needs, and changing the power settings is not going to let it push the hardware beyond the manufacturer's limits. You can cap CPU performance at less than 100% in the advanced settings you don't see. What you can't do there is exceed 100%.

When this happens within a year of purchase, it's not normal. Yeah, I get it that the fan could be crappy and note I said the computer is crappy.

But when this happens again and again and again over 16 years, you realize it's not about the computer, or at least not all the time.

Your resistance to hearing this is astounding -- but then life is like that more and more.

But what you fail to hear -- it's astounding! -- is that SL is hard on computers. Indeed it is. It requires higher-end graphic cards that require fans. You are making a contradiction in terms because the OP tells people to crank up the settings to make the computer work harder, and yet you imagine that your computer is like an SL sim, that degrades performance when it has more scripts and opens doors more slowly, etc. Sure, the same principle is at work but SL is hard on computers. Everyone who is not blinded by science like you are gets that because no computer lasts with SL. That's why it's particularly hilarious for Lindens to mock us for having computers ready for kindergarten.

Look, you're welcome to have the last word as you need that badly. You need to be right, and you can't hear anyone else's experience contrary to that. I'm going to go to a Linden office hour and for one, ask them if their specs are out of date and if so why (I bet they will say they are not out of date) and b, I will ask them about cranking up settings and the effect of SL on a computer. That will be one more data point -- it may not be the full truth as there is always a lot of politics involved in this question. Then I'll go around to less engage geeks I know and ask them, and something tells me that they will admit faster that SL is hard on an ordinary computer than you will. They don't need to keep SL in a unicorn realm -- you do.

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49 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.  I tried to be reasonable, I see I was wasting my breath.

Indeed.

And these threads keep repeating and repeating because of the astounding insularity of the forums geeks.

The Second Life Wiki (not a product of Linden Lab) can be atrocious, but on this topic, it has a very interesting comment:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Choosing_a_computer

  • There are many differing but valid opinions - Like meals, a computer should be well-balanced: having a powerful CPU but lame graphics card (also known as a "video card") will result in lacking Second Life performance. Don't get caught in "fanboi" wars who are irrationally polarized towards one thing and against another. Take your time to do research and don't buy based on synthetic benchmarks, look for real-world performance measurements. However, certain observations are clearer than others — for example, AMD often positions its CPUs as cheaper alternatives to Intel, which weighs in your overall budget.
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@Prokofy NevaI just read through the Secondlife Wiki article on choosing a computer that you posted.  It is hilariously out of date but the basic philosophy is sound.  And while it may not be "official" it is a near as makes no difference.

It still bothers me that Linden Lab condones such articles which are at least 5 years out of date.

It makes absolutely no difference to what has been said above.

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