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What is the logic of the cloud "uplift"?


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So I heard that the sailing sims were being put in the cloud first and I suppose that makes sense since people who sail are an avid and large group in SL and they want fast sims and less problems with sim seams.

You can get this little halo that turns bright golden when you are on a sim that has already been "uplifted" into the cloud and plays a happy harp song, and which turns grey and plays a sad trombone if you then go to another sim not in the cloud.

The logic escapes me because at first I thought it was just water sims, since I saw the sim Zygaena turn the halo gold -- which has Caldera Pond in it -- but then here I come to find Slosser, which is flat, inland and largely abandoned except for a few parcels with my rentals and a public garden -- is in Heaven. Grote, which has a pond, did not turn it gold.

Now, if you doubt the little halo, you can double check it by looking at "about Second Life" at the top of the screen under "Help" and see the type of sim. If it says "agni" or "secondlife" then it's one of those earth-bound LL servers. If it says "amazon," then it is in the cloud. And sure enough, Slosser is on amazon.

Indeed, what the halo is doing is reading that information and displaying it visually.

I realize that the quad servers that hold SL sims do not track with the contiguous Mainland, i.e. there might be 4 sims on a server that are not contiguous inworld. Still, I wonder how the uplift is sequenced.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

I don't know much about the cloud move.  But did Linden Labs really cut a deal with Amazon?

Amazon has programs in place for large scale ec2 hosting like uplift will be using,  it's either based on a percentage of usage per year or they are billed at a flat rate.   

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Hey!  Thanks so much for bringing up the whole cloud situation.  I was about to create a forum topic, myself, when I found yours had already been done!  Yay!

...First, I want to cite this before I continue: 

...Now, I think it's wonderful that LL will eventually be able to start selling regions again, because of the cloud.  That's a particularly nice silver lining to the dreariness of the pandemic and all.  ...I am a huge fan of SL.  I mean, I've been in this relationship for a little over 12 years now.  I understand that not only is land one of the bread and butter things that is good for SL business, but that an update/upgrade like this has been needing to come to fruition for quite a long time now (especially when you look at other, even slightly comparable online platforms/"games").

And yes, the group chat maintenance yesterday seems to be making group chat work better now, so thanks for that also!

However, I would very much like the opportunity to give some feedback on my personal feelings with the cloud and SL... And to perhaps even see if anyone else may feel the same (even if ever so slightly)... Or to possibly have another, politely explain to me how I may be wrong (and what the actual "look forward" to point may more likely be), if they would choose to be so kind.

Ok, so let's suppose that there may be some majority of residents who work for the rival company of Amazon in RL.  Let's suppose that some of those hard-working folks do not like what things are coming to, and have chosen for the past few years to boycott all things Amazon.  Well... If we're fans of SL (or have even just chosen SL for pandemic socialization, but may become inevitably accustomed to, or even willingly "addicted"), now we have no choice but to utilize Amazon.  Amazon, Amazon, Amazon.  They win.  "...They should take on the gov't!" 🤪🤣

"...Well, ok, but why, Majik?  Why hate on Amazon if they've done nothing but advance us into good?"

Well... Let's take this a step further into the abyss...

I remember when they were just a yellow and black website that sold books.  Now all of the sudden (precluding the pandemic), companies are struggling to keep up with this competition... To the point where robots/drones inevitably replace jobs.  ...Jobs are important for esteem, efficacy, and socialization, especially to those who may be disabled (which to my understanding, make up a vast majority of residents, as SL affords opportunities to those who may not otherwise have them).

"But how can that be?  How will anyone be able to pay for food if all jobs are replaced?"

Ah, well... Aside from pointing to the horseless carriage putting horses out to pasture, and also skipping past the light-hearted movie reference of WALL-E, + other analogies ... Likely, we may globally become a communist type of society.  --Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, as I'm NOT trying to open a political debate type can of worms here, at all...  And I do strongly believe that everyone has the right to live how they see fit, as long as no harm is being done to others.  I just don't personally like advocating that type of possible unfulfillment in my own future, because that is not what I am accustomed to... And possibly because that's not what the SL economy is accustomed to, either.

I realize job security may all be out the window since the pandemic has unfortunately, underhandedly taken many jobs anyway ...but I would like to still have this small glimmer of hope (and not feel guilty for the ironic conflict of interest between my first and second life).

I also know many might say they would feel safer in a cloud from a reputable/stable company, and that's fair enough.  But having the bigger future picture in mind, perhaps LL can eventually take on a mix of all kinds of companies offering a cloud service, not just Amazon.  Not sure how un/likely that may be regarding the technology aspect (as my working theory, on why teleports fail to/from regions that have been assimilated into the cloud and those that have not, is because the newer/antiquated technology doesn't seem to communicate very well with one another).  But it's definitely a well-intended thought.

I do understand that evolutionary advancement is inevitable (and you know, thank goodness we don't have to drag our laundry down to the river and beat it silly with a rock anymore for it to be clean).  ...If it weren't Amazon, it would be some other company leading the future (of possibly our own demise).  However, if we take the road to investing in giving [many] other companies a chance, perhaps we don't have to sacrifice ourselves completely just yet.  It's never wise to put all your eggs into one basket anyway.

At any rate, since Amazon is such a huge world monopoly pretty much at this point, it may eventually split into several different smaller companies (so it's no longer overall dominant).  This is what I've observed happening with utility companies throughout the years, so that is why it seems probable to me.  And perhaps, if such split takes place in enough time, I (and possibly others) may feel more secure in/with our human legacy.  ...But, you know, we could always just, take the initiative ...as the unique, creative, and educated entity that we (as SL) are.

 

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Thank you.

I have a HUGE issue with Amazon, for political and humanitarian reasons.  They're the top ICE collaborator.  Their own employees have asked the company to cut its ties with ICE and DHS, who contracted with the company to create facial recognition software, among other things.  Then there are the labor abuse issues.  People holding their pee and poop in until their breaks so that they can make quota -- and having to hold it until after work due to long lines at the limited toilet facilities.  Or crapping their pants while continuing to work.  It reads like something out of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle".  People have had heart attacks, dying at work, just from running around trying to make the inventory quota.  In one instance, a supervisor covered the dead body with some sort of packaging material tarp, and told people to keep working around the body until it could be removed by the coroner.  If that's not an example of an evil corporation, then what is?

There's been a push among recording artists to not offer their works on Amazon anymore.  Amazon continues to be boycotted by people of good conscience.  I am deeply saddened by Linden Lab's decision to do business with this company, and hope they will reconsider.

Edited by Rabid Cheetah
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23 minutes ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

and hope they will reconsider.

And what they'll choose over Amazon then? There's only 3 cloud providers of such scale: Amazon, Google and Azure (Microsoft). And neither of them are "angels" when it comes to pushing stuff on their workers or consumers. IBM has rather big cloud platform too, but not as big as the top 3, the rest are either niche or regional.

And if you didn't know, LL started the cloud migration over 3 years ago and has been working on changes to the server code all that time, now it's going through the very last stage of moving regions to the cloud with ~15% (as of last official information) already being there and plans to finish moving the rest in a few weeks, while the assets, inventory and bunch of other services were in the cloud for years already.

I'm not defending Amazon by any means (not a fan of them myself), but at this day and age hosting your services on one of the big cloud platforms is most viable solution for the mid-large scale business. Maybe it'll change again someday when there will be some new technology, but I don't think that individual server farms (like LL's datacenter was/is) are coming back.

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17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

So I heard that the sailing sims were being put in the cloud first and I suppose that makes sense since people who sail are an avid and large group in SL and they want fast sims and less problems with sim seams.

I think we need to correct a misunderstanding here. Cloud hosting does not in itself make sim crossings easier, it makes them more difficult. Without knowing the details, I'm fairly sure this is the main reason why it's taken LL so long to move the sim servers to the cloud. Fortunately it seems the LL developers have found a solution and they have also made some other unrelated improvements to sim crossings so hopefully we'll see some improvements in that field.

 

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1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

And what they'll choose over Amazon then? There's only 3 cloud providers of such scale: Amazon, Google and Azure (Microsoft). coming back.

Used to be.. but then people across the world started realizing an America first policy and they are starting there own instead..look for more in the future!

https://us.alibabacloud.com/en

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5 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Thank you.

I have a HUGE issue with Amazon, for political and humanitarian reasons.  They're the top ICE collaborator.  Their own employees have asked the company to cut its ties with ICE and DHS, who contracted with the company to create facial recognition software, among other things.  Then there are the labor abuse issues.  People holding their pee and poop in until their breaks so that they can make quota -- and having to hold it until after work due to long lines at the limited toilet facilities.  Or crapping their pants while continuing to work.  It reads like something out of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle".  People have had heart attacks, dying at work, just from running around trying to make the inventory quota.  In one instance, a supervisor covered the dead body with some sort of packaging material tarp, and told people to keep working around the body until it could be removed by the coroner.  If that's not an example of an evil corporation, then what is?

There's been a push among recording artists to not offer their works on Amazon anymore.  Amazon continues to be boycotted by people of good conscience.  I am deeply saddened by Linden Lab's decision to do business with this company, and hope they will reconsider.

Whenever I study these claims, I see they are based on a few news stories and not widespread practices. And they are blogged or reported by journalists with a given world view, where they want to magnify Amazon's flaws to help make their critique of capitalism. Meanwhile, the Amazon boxes don't stop piling up at their doorman building...

I'm proud of Amazon for refusing to store the stolen files from WikiLeaks, Chelsea Manning, and later Snowden. They should not contribute to crime and not gave to the stampede of journo hysteria around this topic.

 

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8 hours ago, MajikVixen Lorefield said:

Hey!  Thanks so much for bringing up the whole cloud situation.  I was about to create a forum topic, myself, when I found yours had already been done!  Yay!

...First, I want to cite this before I continue: 

...Now, I think it's wonderful that LL will eventually be able to start selling regions again, because of the cloud.  That's a particularly nice silver lining to the dreariness of the pandemic and all.  ...I am a huge fan of SL.  I mean, I've been in this relationship for a little over 12 years now.  I understand that not only is land one of the bread and butter things that is good for SL business, but that an update/upgrade like this has been needing to come to fruition for quite a long time now (especially when you look at other, even slightly comparable online platforms/"games").

And yes, the group chat maintenance yesterday seems to be making group chat work better now, so thanks for that also!

However, I would very much like the opportunity to give some feedback on my personal feelings with the cloud and SL... And to perhaps even see if anyone else may feel the same (even if ever so slightly)... Or to possibly have another, politely explain to me how I may be wrong (and what the actual "look forward" to point may more likely be), if they would choose to be so kind.

Ok, so let's suppose that there may be some majority of residents who work for the rival company of Amazon in RL.  Let's suppose that some of those hard-working folks do not like what things are coming to, and have chosen for the past few years to boycott all things Amazon.  Well... If we're fans of SL (or have even just chosen SL for pandemic socialization, but may become inevitably accustomed to, or even willingly "addicted"), now we have no choice but to utilize Amazon.  Amazon, Amazon, Amazon.  They win.  "...They should take on the gov't!" 🤪🤣

"...Well, ok, but why, Majik?  Why hate on Amazon if they've done nothing but advance us into good?"

Well... Let's take this a step further into the abyss...

I remember when they were just a yellow and black website that sold books.  Now all of the sudden (precluding the pandemic), companies are struggling to keep up with this competition... To the point where robots/drones inevitably replace jobs.  ...Jobs are important for esteem, efficacy, and socialization, especially to those who may be disabled (which to my understanding, make up a vast majority of residents, as SL affords opportunities to those who may not otherwise have them).

"But how can that be?  How will anyone be able to pay for food if all jobs are replaced?"

Ah, well... Aside from pointing to the horseless carriage putting horses out to pasture, and also skipping past the light-hearted movie reference of WALL-E, + other analogies ... Likely, we may globally become a communist type of society.  --Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, as I'm NOT trying to open a political debate type can of worms here, at all...  And I do strongly believe that everyone has the right to live how they see fit, as long as no harm is being done to others.  I just don't personally like advocating that type of possible unfulfillment in my own future, because that is not what I am accustomed to... And possibly because that's not what the SL economy is accustomed to, either.

I realize job security may all be out the window since the pandemic has unfortunately, underhandedly taken many jobs anyway ...but I would like to still have this small glimmer of hope (and not feel guilty for the ironic conflict of interest between my first and second life).

I also know many might say they would feel safer in a cloud from a reputable/stable company, and that's fair enough.  But having the bigger future picture in mind, perhaps LL can eventually take on a mix of all kinds of companies offering a cloud service, not just Amazon.  Not sure how un/likely that may be regarding the technology aspect (as my working theory, on why teleports fail to/from regions that have been assimilated into the cloud and those that have not, is because the newer/antiquated technology doesn't seem to communicate very well with one another).  But it's definitely a well-intended thought.

I do understand that evolutionary advancement is inevitable (and you know, thank goodness we don't have to drag our laundry down to the river and beat it silly with a rock anymore for it to be clean).  ...If it weren't Amazon, it would be some other company leading the future (of possibly our own demise).  However, if we take the road to investing in giving [many] other companies a chance, perhaps we don't have to sacrifice ourselves completely just yet.  It's never wise to put all your eggs into one basket anyway.

At any rate, since Amazon is such a huge world monopoly pretty much at this point, it may eventually split into several different smaller companies (so it's no longer overall dominant).  This is what I've observed happening with utility companies throughout the years, so that is why it seems probable to me.  And perhaps, if such split takes place in enough time, I (and possibly others) may feel more secure in/with our human legacy.  ...But, you know, we could always just, take the initiative ...as the unique, creative, and educated entity that we (as SL) are.

 

Thanks for posting that blog from Oz Linden. I missed that. It's hard to follow the Linden blogs even when they push them on to the splash screen (or maybe they don't push the tech ones?) Anyway, yes, he clears up the misinformation I had about the sim seams -- they will be worse but are on their way to getting better. He doesn't indicate a logic of what is chosen, but indicates you can apply to have your sim put on the cloud ahead of others. I have no idea whether that is a good or bad thing, but I will try it with one sim that seems to have a lot of trouble and see what it does.

 

How do you use the Internet in general? A lot of sites use amazon.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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23 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

I don't know much about the cloud move.  But did Linden Labs really cut a deal with Amazon?

Most of the internet these days is actually on Amazon's cloud servers, in part of in whole.

The 'retail store' of Amazon is actually only a tiny part of the larger business that allows them to pretend they're not as profitable as they really are. AWS (Amazon Web Services) is huge. On a scale that is just unimaginable for many people. But because it's not 'consumer facing' the general public has an overall lack of awareness of it

It's a good cost offsetting measure for people who go that route because setting up your own servers / renting space in a co-location farm is expensive and gets more so the more servers you have.

SL is an ideal candidate because of the vast number of servers it needs.

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Apparently, after the update this week, around half the grid will be uplifted. They are moving sims pretty quickly now that initial testing showed no major issues. If your sim doesn't end up on the cloud tomorrow, it soon will. Check out the latest Lab Gab on YouTube to find out more.

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On 11/3/2020 at 2:29 PM, Rabid Cheetah said:

 

There's been a push among recording artists to not offer their works on Amazon anymore.  Amazon continues to be boycotted by people of good conscience.  I am deeply saddened by Linden Lab's decision to do business with this company, and hope they will reconsider.

There is really nothing to reconsider,  Azure is not a stable enough platform, while it's coming along, it's not half way there.  Google,  they do pretty well, but need better offerings and more mid tier business orientated instead of just trying to make happy the big companies,  Amazon fits the needs of small, medium, large,jumbo companies and  what amazon does at it's warehouses, can not be said for the same at their server farms,  it's a different product and ran by a different set of people,  While I hold the view of you can have one bad part of the company and one good part of the company, I try to not lump the whole company together because of a few bad apples, every company has them.

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On 11/10/2020 at 7:36 PM, Rabid Cheetah said:

Uh huh.  A few bad apples.  Sure.  Tell that to my dead relatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust

 

This is true about many things as the world is interconnected. It's a shame that Austrian telecom is helping Belarus turn off the Internet due to protests. Few people ceased buying Siemens equipment although their surveillance cameras are definitely used for evil in Russia, China, at borders, in prisons, etc. And so on.

Amazon was not involved in the Holocaust as the Internet didn't even exist back then.

When you say "a push among recording artists to not offer their works on Amazon anymore" you need to say which artists, how famous, how many, and how poor?

Because even the most radical authors and artists who hate capitalism and hate Amazon especially may still sell their books there because, well, as Lenin said, they will sell us the rope to hang them and all that.

And why stop at Amazon? YouTube is owned by Google which is no different, it's just that they have that cool geeky patina that snows people.

Since I don't have the goal of overthrowing capitalism and the rule of law, Amazon doesn't bother me. If the Democratic Party prefers to sit on the East Coast and devise new ways to cancel speakers on campuses and ban Young Adult novels instead of going out to Debuque and Kenosha and organizing labor unions and actions at Amazon warehouses, that's on them. 

Say, are you one of those types who cried "Defund the police!" and just deprived tens of thousands of Black and Hispanic cops whose families worked hard to put them in academies, who got good jobs and benefits and have been a credit to their communities, making them better? Oh, ok. Well, they can't get jobs at the Best Buy or even Mike's Pizza, they have been looted and trashed and closed.

 

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