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18 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

All that would do is further distance people in SL who use no chat at all.  It's already bad enough as it is but there are tons of people who never voice chat.  Never have and never will.  Making it easier would only alienate all of those people from those who do voice chat.  Inclusion makes more sense than exclusion.  Personally, I can see the downward spiral of SL local chat starting around the time voice became popular.  I think it was implemented in 07?  Not a ton of people were using it when I started in 09 so when I went places, people were actually talking to each other.  Slowly, over the years, more and more people have private voice chats either through SL or offsite.  Now everyone seems to be in their own private bubble.  Integrating it even more into SL?  Why?  I come to socialize not chit chat with people on discord.  Why bother logging in at all then?  

The difference is people prefer some form of privacy to their voice chat. Local voice chat has never worked and will never work. I for one hate it when I go to a club in SL to listen to music only to get bombarded by people in local voice chat chatting over the music. If I go to a shop I don't want to listen to someone talking about what adult appendage they want to buy.

You might like the way the system is at the moment, but most people prefer to be able to hangout with their friends these days in whatever game they are playing or whatever they are doing. If say my friend decides he wants to play a game whilst still chatting to his friends on Second Life he has two options, join discord or have his comp running 2 different demanding programs at the same time whilst having to keybind one key for discord and then another for his SL voice chat, not to mention the numerous in-game voice chat keybinds.

I for one don't hop on SL to just socialise with a few people that may be online at a time. I would much prefer to be able to talk to all my friends at the same time no matter what they are doing. Sure, I understand that that isn't what everyone likes or wants to do, but having the option there for it to happen doesn't impact in any way SL or detract from socialising in SL. If anything it opens it up far more.

Also you must remember that not so long ago people left SL voice in droves to offsite chat. Not due to not wanting to use second life's voice system but because second life's voice system was so bad that it was like a role play where you would need to roll a dice to see if when you log in second life voice would be working or not. Even today there are still times when voice will just fail to work.

EDIT:

As far as linking discord goes to SL just have it as an option to toggle whether you want to be able to use that or not.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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23 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

The difference is people prefer some form of privacy to their voice chat. Local voice chat has never worked and will never work. I for one hate it when I go to a club in SL to listen to music only to get bombarded by people in local voice chat chatting over the music. If I go to a shop I don't want to listen to someone talking about what adult appendage they want to buy.

You might like the way the system is at the moment, but most people prefer to be able to hangout with their friends these days in whatever game they are playing or whatever they are doing. If say my friend decides he wants to play a game whilst still chatting to his friends on Second Life he has two options, join discord or have his comp running 2 different demanding programs at the same time whilst having to keybind one key for discord and then another for his SL voice chat, not to mention the numerous in-game voice chat keybinds.

I for one don't hop on SL to just socialise with a few people that may be online at a time. I would much prefer to be able to talk to all my friends at the same time no matter what they are doing. Sure, I understand that that isn't what everyone likes or wants to do, but having the option there for it to happen doesn't impact in any way SL or detract from socialising in SL. If anything it opens it up far more.

Also you must remember that not so long ago people left SL voice in droves to offsite chat. Not due to not wanting to use second life's voice system but because second life's voice system was so bad that it was like a role play where you would need to roll a dice to see if when you log in second life voice would be working or not. Even today there are still times when voice will just fail to work.

EDIT:

As far as linking discord goes to SL just have it as an option to toggle whether you want to be able to use that or not.

I didn't mean local voice chat.  I meant local chat chat...like people used to do before voice.  When people actually socialized with each other.  

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40 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I didn't mean local voice chat.  I meant local chat chat...like people used to do before voice.  When people actually socialized with each other.  

Oh I see. Well not sure how my suggestion would make it worse as all I said to do was to make it so that say a club that says join our discord server for chat will be shown in local chat as well and vice versa.

Even if there was no discord linking, like I also said the reason why no one socialises in SL chat these days and uses discord is primarily due to the lack of features in SL chat. Why would I use local chat in SL when it offers no emojis, no meme/gif picture support, no post reaction support etc. I cant post a picture of something without others having to open another window or browser etc whereas discord (or any modern chat program)  allows me to see that pic in chat without even opening something else. A friend cant post a YouTube video in SL local chat and I watch it in that chat. I would have to click a link and let it open a web browser or another window to view it, discord I can watch it in chat hassle free.

You say there is no socialisation in local chat like there used to be and I am saying the reason for this is because local chat is the equivalent to a 1989 IRC program that is purely text based. Any of the offsite chat programs offer a far better chat experience than SL does. People dont want just text chat they want a little fun as well, not to mention ease of use and have it so that it is not immersion breaking.

People just want a different experience and SL due to not being updated doesn't offer that anymore.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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1 minute ago, animats said:

I'm personally OK with the current chat system, but I suspect it's too limiting for the generation that grew up with SMS and Instagram. LL needs to look hard at this.

Its not even about them growing up with SMS and Instagram. Whilst yes like I said emojis etc, there are far more features discord offers over second life. For example discord also allows me to chat whilst playing second life to other people who may be out and about using their phone.

Add to this I could also then stream second life from my pc for someone with discord on their phone to watch me playing second life on their phone with me talking to them in real time. So I could attend a club or live event only for my friend who is picnicking in a park to sit and watch that event whilst contributing to the chat (due to the event using discord chat instead of local sl chat) without even being there.

Times have changed with streaming etc and LL just keep falling further and further behind.

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13 hours ago, SodaGnome said:

One thing I just noticed recently is I rented some land and was reading in depth the land covenant and mind you I rented this land with the idea of a hang out, club, store, bar etc.....and it is zoned full commercial...... the covenant says I can have 2 to 3 visitors max.....

I get that I have just rented some land that has been divided up into smaller pieces....but 2 to 3 avatars? How many can a full sim support? 

 

A lot of this is often because they are renting stacked skyboxes, one on top of the other, sometimes dozens of them. The region next door to mine on mainland has a tower of about 40 of them on the same parcel stretching the full 4000m, from ground to maximum build height. A mainland region can take 40 avatars (I think) so if several of them are occupied at the same time, and several of them have visitors, it can quickly fill the region. Private regions can go higher (up to 75 - again I'm not sure of the exact figure) but the estate owner may set a lower limit if they want to.

Homestead regions can have only 10 avatars. So if your home is on a larger parcel with no stacked skyboxes, it might be Homestead. Though it would be very unusual (and an error on the estate owner's part) for a Homestead to be zoned commercial.

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8 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

As far as linking discord goes to SL just have it as an option to toggle whether you want to be able to use that or not.

There is the word DISCORD on the Firestorm viewer under COMM, what does clicking that do or what is it for?

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On 10/17/2020 at 3:13 AM, ooJenny said:

 When there were 70,000 people online at any given time of day. She had built her own business in SL.  

I have been on and off SL since almost it's beginnings.  The numbers I would see were approximately 35000 for weekdays and 55000 on weekends.  That number stayed fairly consistent, maybe going a little over 60000 k on weekends once in a while and/or even hitting 70k on occassion, but the average for weekends was about 55k.  However, I am kind of agreeing with your Mom....she was right in regards to the weekends.  Not always 70k but sometimes yes it was.    

I'm not disagreeing with your Mom or anything but these are the numbers I remember seeing and seeing often.

I don't even know where the numbers of the current online users is today.   Where do we get a read on that today?  

Edited by FairreLilette
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7 hours ago, Maitimo said:

A mainland region can take 40 avatars
Private regions can go higher (up to 75 - again I'm not sure of the exact figure)
Homestead regions can have only 10 avatars.

sorry but thats not completely right

2385975b83183a00d794969b9babf534.png

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17 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I have been on and off SL since almost it's beginnings.  The numbers I would see were approximately 35000 for weekdays and 55000 on weekends.  That number stayed fairly consistent, maybe going a little over 60000 k on weekends once in a while and/or even hitting 70k on occassion, but the average for weekends was about 55k.  However, I am kind of agreeing with your Mom....she was right in regards to the weekends.  Not always 70k but sometimes yes it was.    

I'm not disagreeing with your Mom or anything but these are the numbers I remember seeing and seeing often.

I don't even know where the numbers of the current online users is today.   Where do we get a read on that today?  

FairreLilette, the Firestorm viewer shows it on the log in page when you start the SL viewer.  Usually it shows around 30,000 in world.  Of course time of day has something to do with that.  I most often log in early mornings eastern time because I work.  There are more on those occasions when I log in in the afternoons, and I never log in at all evenings.

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Wrong? - Nothing. Solution?
-> Link SL technologies and creation with real life qualifications?
Simple to advanced levels of certification, where you can gain proper formal qualifications,
(if you so desire), or just SL based certifications - far simpler/just for fun.
(psst - no one fails, just like RL these days).
-> Tied in with tech companies or educational institutions. (oh yes, scoff laughing lol 😉).
No one can argue SL didn't "set the pace".
I think there is still time left to call in some kudos and put the foot down.
Stake that claim LL! 
In 3d mesh & associated techniques, in web & server code, in graphics & video,
audio, clothing/apparel design?
I think SL deserves this recognition in an ONGOING fashion.

Don't you 👀
 

 

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@ooJennyI assume your mother was active in SL and was part of a community of content creators.

Today, you can hang out with friends if you find friends in your timezone that is using SL as much as you do. I aaume again that the creators know each other well enough for that.

It is possible to log into SL now and go to a club packed with avatars, go to stores with avatars, go to events with avatars. But you must know where they are. And it helps a lot when you befriend someone that you "click" with. Or else you feel alone in a group.

I started SL when your mum was active and it was lots and lots of empty regions, clubs, malls and stores. I found out where to go and where it was empty. Your mother has fond memories of the slice of SL she was active in. It was and is, active pockets in a wasteland.

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4 hours ago, ooJenny said:

FairreLilette, the Firestorm viewer shows it on the log in page when you start the SL viewer.  Usually it shows around 30,000 in world.  Of course time of day has something to do with that.  I most often log in early mornings eastern time because I work.  There are more on those occasions when I log in in the afternoons, and I never log in at all evenings.

Oh, I never closed that yellow sticky note which dimmed that information on my viewer.  I don't get a new viewer every update right away.  I will update to EEP soon though as I want to check it out.  See my screenshot below - you can see it dims a lot of important information I never knew was there as Firestorm always seems to have that yellow sticky note in the way - maybe they should get rid of that.  Thankies for letting me know where the info is.  It used to be on the main Second Life homepage from what I remember.  

Screenshot (119).png

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On 10/17/2020 at 7:17 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

* laughs at post too, in solidarity with Klytina *

I guess you and Klytyna failed business 101 but since it's laughable in Love's and Kyltyna's world - good business sense that is is laughable and I guess Addam's doesn't need that 50% off sale right now it is having and is having on Marketplace.  Nope, Addam's just is having a 50% off sale for no reason.  

As a matter of fact, I could see it coming and waited.  Sssssssssss, I look hot.  Got 20 dollars worth of stuff for 10 dollars and that was just yesterday.  Whose laughing now.  Tis me.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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@FairreLilette Did you get the Addams store credit at the Halloween shp’n’hop?

I’ve always thought SL needs central planning, zoning of regions for certain activities, and LL has actually tried this but can’t control  what people build or where people go to shop or party.

Maybe LL could make a new user created map, which is brought up like a hud, and this map is filled with icons for shops, houses, venues, etc. Sort of a graphical layout of our landmarks where we can group all the stores in one area and houses in another. It’d create a visual map that looks better than just a list of links in our inventory folder.

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1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

@FairreLilette Did you get the Addams store credit at the Halloween shp’n’hop?

I’ve always thought SL needs central planning, zoning of regions for certain activities, and LL has actually tried this but can’t control  what people build or where people go to shop or party.

Maybe LL could make a new user created map, which is brought up like a hud, and this map is filled with icons for shops, houses, venues, etc. Sort of a graphical layout of our landmarks where we can group all the stores in one area and houses in another. It’d create a visual map that looks better than just a list of links in our inventory folder.

I was working but heard about it.  The 50% off sale makes up for my having to work then.  I am re-arranging all my groups and joining the ones I want to wait for sales for so I can get the notices.  I already belonged to Addam's though but there are other stores if they have a 50% off sale, I'm ready and joined up to get the notices.   I feel I can wait for the sales, why not, it's just copy stuff and it's not going to sell out, and some places don't even in SL need to close, they can just go MP only if the worst happens due to the coronavirus.  

As far as another thing that "happened" to SL though is most people in my age group, like those with married age children, are on phones now and living on their phones.  That's part of what happened to SL.  Also, almost everyone in my family from younger to older are currently dating someone they met on Facebook and most of the time it's someone they knew from their past and they are re-connecting.  Facebook is the happenin' place for real life dating which most people prefer.

I came to SL to create and have fun; those were my two reasons.  No other virtual world is as creative as SL.  There are no other artists in my family except me.  My family is mostly literary geniuses.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 10/17/2020 at 5:26 PM, ooJenny said:

Oh, thanks, I will have to ask my Mom why she told me that, since it isn't factual  :)

 

I joined SL 2007. And when I remember correctly there were more people online than today. About 60,000, sometimes more. Though the number of crashes was much higher too.

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On 10/17/2020 at 6:16 PM, SodaGnome said:

Yea so I'm not sure how one opens a dance club or something without owning the entire sim with these restrictions on how many can visit or be there. 

Use your fantasy. Imagine someone rents a small parcel for a few Lindens, builds a club that's visited by tons avatars daily. He has much fun, but unfortunately his club uses much or all server resources. While for the renters which pay thousands for their larger lands is nothing left than lag. Not exactly a fair deal. Anyway, many land company use a simple formular how many visitors are allowed on a land. For example. If you you own 1/2 of the region and the avatar maxium is 100, you can have the 1/2 = 50. If you own a 1/4,  you can have 25. If you own 1/8 of the region, you can have about 13. And so on. In case you have 2046 sqm that's when I calculate right 1/32 of the region. The allowed number of visitors for that size would be 100 /32. There you have the 2 or 3 visitors which you are mentioning.

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I was given a club once , taught how to ban and abandoned basically , after several months standing there on my own the builder returned and i asked "how am i supposed to get people here when if i leave to find them i can only send them to a sim entirely empty of people" , 10 minutes later she had the room filled with her own alts , the conversation was riveting - rolls eyes .

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25 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Whats wrong with sl.. simple its a turd filled with turdy people that make it uncomfortable and less enjoyable for new people.

aka

Its no longer shiny and new and filled with as many helpful people as it used to be.

Geez, thanks Drakonadrgora.  

I kind of doubt that is the reason.  I think it's because people text on their phone now and share real life stuffs like pictures and videos with real life people (family and friends) on Facebook, plus many see SL as 'too hard'.  When I share SL stuff on FB, replies are usually something along the line...'I could never understand how to do that'.  Plus, people like the free of FB and the ease of use.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Geez, thanks Drakonadrgora.  

I kind of doubt that is the reason.  I think it's because people text on their phone now and share real life stuffs like pictures and videos with real life people (family and friends) on Facebook, plus many see SL as 'too hard'.  When I share SL stuff on FB, replies are usually something along the line...'I could never understand how to do that'.  Plus, people like the free of FB and the ease of use.  

Yep, the Make it Easy..I Want It Now!!! culture the world has become.  

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35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Geez, thanks Drakonadrgora.  

I kind of doubt that is the reason.  I think it's because people text on their phone now and share real life stuffs like pictures and videos with real life people (family and friends) on Facebook, plus many see SL as 'too hard'.  When I share SL stuff on FB, replies are usually something along the line...'I could never understand how to do that'.  Plus, people like the free of FB and the ease of use.  

Your welcome. combined with the fact that it has a moderate learning curve, no real goal, people that can be rude or crude, its outdated in graphics and abilities. sl is just old.. its not shiny or new or fun for most people. so there is less reason for most to stay.

current generations want easy to do and learn things, things that are shiny, have good graphics, fun things to do, sl is lacking in several of those categories.

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On 10/17/2020 at 10:59 PM, Drayke Newall said:

For example discord also allows me to chat whilst playing second life to other people who may be out and about using their phone.

Useful reading on that: "How Discord Won". It's an analysis of what Discord did right vs. the less successful competition:

They did so by making the experience 10x better:

  • Discord requires nearly no setup. Starting a server on Discord takes two clicks. Creating channels is two clicks. It works instantly and all the time.
  • Discord is free.
  • It is easy to switch to Discord. Inviting people is two clicks and a paste. Joining a server (once you have an account) is two clicks. It is so simple you don’t even think about it.
  • Non-core features like emoji support, reactions, bots, integrations, video calls, and screen-sharing all work as well as you could ask.
  • Big community servers for games, fanbases, organizations, hobbies, and more.

I've made the point before that others are catching up to SL in the 3D world space. It's worth realizing that SL is also a player in the text/audio chat and group space, and other are way ahead there.

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5 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Your welcome. combined with the fact that it has a moderate learning curve, no real goal, people that can be rude or crude, its outdated in graphics and abilities. sl is just old.. its not shiny or new or fun for most people. so there is less reason for most to stay.

current generations want easy to do and learn things, things that are shiny, have good graphics, fun things to do, sl is lacking in several of those categories.

It has new avatars though but many whom I think would enjoy SL, take a look and think "it's too difficult".  

It's funny, when I logged on this morning, I realized the camera is to my back.  I'm not sure some of my family or friends would even understand they need to turn the camera position around to see their avatar.  Most wouldn't get that right away.  And, that's just the camera position and "the beginning".

So, yes, today's world wants instant, instant, instant, everything at the push of one button and zero learning curve.  lol

Edited by FairreLilette
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