Is it okay to give a friend L with the express intention of them cashing it out for USD?

[Anuuubis 14]

Heya, first forum post here!

 

Just wanted to make sure this is alright to do. I co-own a shop with my partner and we wanted to give a friend a chunk of our earned L with the intention of that friend being able to cash it out for themselves; This is fine, right? I just want to make sure there's no weird legal stuff I'm somehow overlooking.

Thanks!

[Anuuubis 14]

5 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

It likely depends on how much.  If it is a lot it could certainly be flagged as a possible money laundering scheme.  I would check with support (if they can give you an answer) before doing anything. I had a friend who was trying to help someone and almost lost his account. He was "on hold" for about a week before LL decided he wasn't breaking the law. I have no idea if the money actually was given or cashed out. 

 

Also realize that cashing out isn't all that easy these days so the person you would give it to would need to supply a lot of info to Linden Lab BEFORE they could transfer that money out of Second Life.  So you need to ask someone official and do more research. 

 

Oh wow, yikes. Nevermind then, I don't want to have to contact support and go through a whole song and dance just to give someone some money. x:

That's unfortunate.

Edit: To clarify, I'd be sending over $100 in L as a gift/thank you for something. I'm guessing that'd be enough to cause problems, so I'll just figure something else out instead!

Edited October 16, 2020 by Anuuubis

[Alwin Alcott 11,603]

52 minutes ago, Anuuubis said:

Heya, first forum post here!

 

Just wanted to make sure this is alright to do. I co-own a shop with my partner and we wanted to give a friend a chunk of our earned L with the intention of that friend being able to cash it out for themselves; This is fine, right? I just want to make sure there's no weird legal stuff I'm somehow overlooking.

Thanks!

i would cash it out myself and ask him for his paypal....

[Chic Aeon 18,353]

3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i would cash it out myself and ask him for his paypal....

Well whoever cashes it out would have to go through the cash out policy personal info proving who you are bit ===  AND not everyone would want someone to know their  RL paypal email :D.  So seems likely that isn't all that workable  --- but maybe.   Whoever cashes it out would have it as income for IRS if this is in the US.    

[Alwin Alcott 11,603]

24 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

  Whoever cashes it out would have it as income for IRS if this is in the US.    

true ..but if the amount to transfer is thát high... or only the email thát secret ... it might be wiser not to do business at all. BTW it's possible to add several emailadresses to paypal, so could use a temp one.
If things are so secret and private, the whole business in this post starts to smell very fishy.

[Chic Aeon 18,353]

6 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

true ..but if the amount to transfer is thát high... or only the email thát secret ... it might be wiser not to do business at all. BTW it's possible to add several emailadresses to paypal, so could use a temp one.
If things are so secret and private, the whole business in this post starts to smell very fishy.

LOL.  True but even if not fishy  "Chic" has a Paypal email that I got long ago for a machinima job that I never took in the end.  Back then it was a big hassle to get it and I had to talk on the phone with someone. Likely not that way any longer.    I still wouldn't want to give that out. That's just me.  I suspect people that ARE laundering money (honestly I don't fully understand how that works) are doing more than a hundred bucks or why would it be worth it?    But whatever. REALLY better just to avoid the issue I think.    That comment about a friend almost losing his account was a real one :D.  Scary.

[Lillith Hapmouche 3,217]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

$L100

L$ worth of US$ 100... slightly different scale.

[Lillith Hapmouche 3,217]

Cool, but is it also low enough to get past any money laundering alerts within LL's realm?

[Sayrah Parx 19]

Your friend could only cash out L$ sale proceeds through a verified PayPal account regardless.  So you're better off selling L$ and cashing out the proceeds yourself, and then sending them money directly through PayPal instead of going through Second Life/Tilia.

[Anuuubis 14]

Yeahhh I'm honestly just confused at this point and I'm not even going to bother.

Not sure how money laundering is even brought into it when it's money I made legitimately through selling things in the marketplace; isn't money laundering the act of recirculating illegal funds? :s The fact that it's apparently something that can even get brought up if you gift a friend L and they cash it for USD is unnerving.

Also I dunno where $L100 is coming from-- I said $100 in L, as in $100 USD worth of lindens. I just wanted to gift someone something they could either use in-world or buy something nice for themselves irl but so far most responses garnered here have made me back out of that idea completely. I also don't know why it's immediately considered "fishy" to not want to go through the hassle of exchanging paypal info with another resident, when instead I could just give them the L and they could cash it themselves? Makes me feel like I shouldn't have even posted my question/considered it to begin with... Feels bad to get accused for something when the whole point of asking is so I don't accidentally do something wrong, yikes.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Anuuubis

[Mollymews 5,062]

32 minutes ago, Anuuubis said:

Yeahhh I'm honestly just confused at this point and I'm not even going to bother.

i would suggest just doing it.  Giving another person $US100 worth of L$ is not a huge transaction. People pay others more than this regularly each month for rentals and work-for-hires

[Nick0678 2,191]

16 minutes ago, Anuuubis said:

Yeahhh I'm honestly just confused at this point and I'm not even going to bother.

Not sure how money laundering is even brought into it when it's money I made legitimately through selling things in the marketplace; isn't money laundering the act of recirculating illegal funds? :s The fact that it's apparently something that can even get brought up if you gift a friend L and they cash it for USD is unnerving.

Also I dunno where $L100 is coming from-- I said $100 in L, as in $100 USD worth of lindens. I just wanted to gift someone something they could either use in-world or buy something nice for themselves irl but so far most responses garnered here have made me back out of that idea completely. I also don't know why it's immediately considered "fishy" to not want to go through the hassle of exchanging paypal info with another resident, when instead I could just give them the L and they could cash it themselves? Makes me feel like I shouldn't have even posted my question/considered it to begin with... Feels bad to get accused for something when the whole point of asking is so I don't accidentally do something wrong, yikes.

Don't worry about it, if you want to give 100usd to your friend for whatever reason you like, can be services they provided or as a gift because they have fancy nails you can do it. I pay many of my SL associates similar or higher amounts and also have been paid for my services in a similar way from others who don't want to share skrill info or paypal.

Taking them out is not an issue as long as they have provided the necessary paperwork, at least never was for me for more than 5 years.

Just avoid sending people thousands of dollars if you don't make them by your inworld business  because lets not forget this is a game and can't be trusted as much as paypal/skrill.

[Anuuubis 14]

5 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Don't worry about it, if you want to give 100usd to your friend for whatever reason you like, can be services they provided or as a gift because they have fancy nails you can do it. I pay many of my SL associates similar or higher amounts and also have been paid for my services in a similar way from others who don't want to share skrill info or paypal.

Taking them out is not an issue as long as they have provided the necessary paperwork, at least never was for me for more than 5 years.

Just avoid sending people thousands of dollars if you don't make them by your inworld business  because lets not forget this is a game and can't be trusted as much as paypal/skrill.

 

Oh god I'd never think of sending someone thousands of dollars... ever, and I could definitely see how that'd look weird to LL. I'll keep that in mind!

[Chic Aeon 18,353]

It likely depends on how much.  If it is a lot it could certainly be flagged as a possible money laundering scheme.  I would check with support (if they can give you an answer) before doing anything. I had a friend who was trying to help someone and almost lost his account. He was "on hold" for about a week before LL decided he wasn't breaking the law. I have no idea if the money actually was given or cashed out. 

 

Also realize that cashing out isn't all that easy these days so the person you would give it to would need to supply a lot of info to Linden Lab BEFORE they could transfer that money out of Second Life.  So you need to ask someone official and do more research. 

[Lindal Kidd 18,058]

Even $100 USD, or about $L24,000, is not all that much.  In the US, the IRS doesn't even start to take notice until you make more than $400 a year with your hobby.

[Chic Aeon 18,353]

7 hours ago, Anuuubis said:

Yeahhh I'm honestly just confused at this point and I'm not even going to bother.

Not sure how money laundering is even brought into it when it's money I made legitimately through selling things in the marketplace; isn't money laundering the act of recirculating illegal funds? :s The fact that it's apparently something that can even get brought up if you gift a friend L and they cash it for USD is unnerving.

Also I dunno where $L100 is coming from-- I said $100 in L, as in $100 USD worth of lindens. I just wanted to gift someone something they could either use in-world or buy something nice for themselves irl but so far most responses garnered here have made me back out of that idea completely. I also don't know why it's immediately considered "fishy" to not want to go through the hassle of exchanging paypal info with another resident, when instead I could just give them the L and they could cash it themselves? Makes me feel like I shouldn't have even posted my question/considered it to begin with... Feels bad to get accused for something when the whole point of asking is so I don't accidentally do something wrong, yikes.

I don't see that ANYONE has accused you of anything "bad".  People have simply explained what has happened in the past as a warning. You can of course do whatever you like.   

 

MEANWHILE,   Linden Lab decide IN SANSAR that only money that was received as sales through the Store (the Sansar Marketplace name) was able to be cashed out.   If all this gets to be too much of an issue then they certainly could decide to do the same thing here. More problematic coding wise as we have inworld sales here to track and there were none in Sansar.  Honestly --- in this case -- they are simply trying to follow the US LAW.   

 

 

[Lindal Kidd 18,058]

$L100 is less than fifty cents in real money.  I'm sure there would be zero problems in you giving your friend this money.  However, if it was the ONLY money they had, they could not cash it out.  The minimum amount for a cashout is $10.00 USD, or about $L2400.  I think you all are scaring the OP needlessly.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Lindal Kidd