land settings Flying is deactivated, but some can still fly!?

[Subsonic Oh]

We got a zombie shooting sim. Flying is deactivated in region and land options, but today i still saw someone flying, very fast. I think it's not the normal flying. She can even fly through alpha walls! Seems like she's wearing a HUD or so?

Is there a way to make them stop flying?

Scrips and rezzing must stay allowed on our sim.

[LittleMe Jewell]

There is a debug setting to override the No Fly.  If I set that and come in already flying, then I'll be able to continue flying.

 

ETA:  There are scripts that can detect if someone is flying. I've been booted from regions for flying.  I get a warning message and if I don't land quick enough I'm booted out.  You could look into that for your area.

Edited October 12, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[belindacarson]

well anyone can bypass a "no fly" section by using the viewer's built in over ride.

 

you need a security system that will tp them home for flying to stop them.

[Subsonic Oh]

1 minute ago, belindacarson said:

well anyone can bypass a "no fly" section by using the viewer's built in over ride.

you need a security system that will tp them home for flying to stop them.

A pity it's possible to override rules settings

Thanks a lot for the helpful answers.

[belindacarson]

1 minute ago, Subsonic Oh said:

A pity it's possible to override rules settings

Thanks a lot for the helpful answers.

just do a search on the marketplace for one

[Subsonic Oh]

2 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

just do a search on the marketplace for one

I'm exactly doing this right now lol

[Nova Convair]

Flying, walls, closed doors, scripts - with limits you just express your wishes - you don't enforce anything.

 

[Subsonic Oh]

thanks, i guess i found something, testing it with my alt/wife

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/st-No-Fly-Zapper-Tran-permmis/15091410

[Subsonic Oh]

It's working, still struggling a bit with banning, but warning and ejecting (pushing flying people to the edge of the sim) works and super friendly creator, and cheap!

[Lucia Nightfire]

Would be great if we already had this feature: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-40984

[Gabriele Graves]

Umm, no it wouldn't.  Not in my opinion.

[Qie Niangao]

There's a tension between how easy it is to get into an Experience, and how powerful an Experience can be over an avatar.

It's of course trivial to get out of an Experience -- if one knows how.

Sorta don't want to constrain the possibilities of the platform, but I'm not sure the OP wants to probe those (Experience) possibilities. Or maybe they would. Booting the errant flier isn't exactly immersive.

[Gabriele Graves]

The more power over an avatar an Experience has, the less people are going to trust them unless they just use their own for themselves.  Adding new powers in the mix certainly doesn't increase my trust in those provided by others.  I predict that eventually people will start to caution others to avoid Experiences, because if you accept them, all sorts of terrible things can be done to your avatar.  The rumour of your account being hacked may also rise out of this in the same way just clicking on web links are portrayed in some groups regardless of the truth.  Truth and untruth is a powerful mixture to convince people and hard to dispel once entrenched.

Before any more powers are granted to Experiences I would like to see some granularity added so that if you only want to have an Experience for teleport, you can just request that.  There should also be an enforcement of a statement of intent of what each requested power will be used for that will be displayed to the user during the request which is AR'able and result in their Experience key revoked if abused.

Immersion shouldn't be the only consideration here.
 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Gabriele Graves

[Mollymews]

when we are already flying and we cross into a parcel where flying is disabled then the expected behaviour is that we will continue to fly. If it were not then people flying on mainland or similar contiguous estate would get shot out of the sky while flying

what could be changed by Linden is that when we teleport then the parcel restriction on flying is observed. We can I think expect to be restricted in this way on teleport 

[Lucia Nightfire]

3 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

The more power over an avatar an Experience has, the less people are going to trust them unless they just use their own for themselves.  Adding new powers in the mix certainly doesn't increase my trust in those provided by others.  I predict that eventually people will start to caution others to avoid Experiences, because if you accept them, all sorts of terrible things can be done to your avatar.  The rumour of your account being hacked may also rise out of this in the same way just clicking on web links are portrayed in some groups regardless of the truth.  Truth and untruth is a powerful mixture to convince people and hard to dispel once entrenched.

Before any more powers are granted to Experiences I would like to see some granularity added so that if you only want to have an Experience for teleport, you can just request that.  There should also be an enforcement of a statement of intent of what each requested power will be used for that will be displayed to the user during the request which is AR'able and result in their Experience key revoked if abused.

Immersion shouldn't be the only consideration here.
 

Trusting an experience is the same as trusting an RLV relay. Both have their stigmas if you don't have knowledge and/or trust in either and both can be abused if you choose poorly.

Granularity doesn't exist with experiences as much as it doesn't exist in RLV. You're all-in or not. You're allowing the experience or you're not. You're logged in with RLV active or you're not.

Before participating in an experience, you get a dialog of what permissions can be executed. With RLV, you have to read documents from a third party website.

Abuse by either is an ARable offense. Both have logging/tracking of permissions usage.

[Gabriele Graves]

22 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Trusting an experience is the same as trusting an RLV relay. Both have their stigmas if you don't have knowledge and/or trust in either and both can be abused if you choose poorly.

Granularity doesn't exist with experiences as much as it doesn't exist in RLV. You're all-in or not. You're allowing the experience or you're not. You're logged in with RLV active or you're not.

Before participating in an experience, you get a dialog of what permissions can be executed. With RLV, you have to read documents from a third party website.

Abuse by either is an ARable offense. Both have logging/tracking of permissions usage.

I am aware of all this.  The granularity part of my post was about how I would like that "all or nothing part" to change in a future update to Experiences.
I am also aware of what is currently AR'able.  That part of my post was about what I would like to see happen when properly declared intents weren't supplied or adhered to when requesting permission for each granular power which clearly isn't AR'able today because declaring intents via an API doesn't exist yet.

There will be many more people using Experiences than RLV because it is a LL feature which is an integral part of the LL viewer and which LL use themselves.  RLV isn't.  They aren't comparable and the ability for people to choose well with Experiences really requires more information about what they will be used for than is currently given.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Gabriele Graves

[Subsonic Oh]

Just to clarify, people shouldn't fly on our sim because:

It's a zombie shooting sim. You have to fight your way through a forest. Then you reach the harder prison. There you have to find keys to open the last gate to the city. There are even alpha walls to stop people shotcutting their ways or to get a lame sniper location on roofs of buildings. Shooting zombies while flying is stupid and also cheating their XP/levels. It's just not fair to all the other players. Also, it's not immersive at all.

[Mollymews]

13 minutes ago, Subsonic Oh said:

It's a zombie shooting sim. . Shooting zombies while flying is stupid and also cheating their XP/levels. It's just not fair to all the other players

 

a flight detector is a good place to start with this.  Might also want to see if the detector device you have can also detect speed/jump boosters as well. If not the scripter you bought it from would probably be able to add this in as well

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I am aware of all this.  The granularity part of my post was about how I would like that "all or nothing part" to change in a future update to Experiences.
I am also aware of what is currently AR'able.  That part of my post was about what I would like to see happen when properly declared intents weren't supplied or adhered to when requesting permission for each granular power which clearly isn't AR'able today because declaring intents via an API doesn't exist yet.

There will be many more people using Experiences than RLV because it is a LL feature which is an integral part of the LL viewer and which LL use themselves.  RLV isn't.  They aren't comparable and the ability for people to choose well with Experiences really requires more information about what they will be used for than is currently given.

I recommend filing a feature request with details on how you feel it should work, else nothing will happen commenting about it here.

https://jira.secondlife.com/

[Gabriele Graves]

4 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

I recommend filing a feature request with details on how you feel it should work, else nothing will happen commenting about it here.

https://jira.secondlife.com/

Filing a JIRA on this has no bearing on whether I would comment about it here.  I am under no illusions about it for doing so.  I merely gave my opinions in response to your comment/JIRA link contents and in response to Qie's post.

[Qie Niangao]

Even during the feature's beta, I argued that an Experience script should be able to tailor the list of permissions it obtains, but at this point that would mean a fundamental change in how those scripts work, and within existing scripts there are logical dependencies among those permissions that might be hard to tease apart.

It would be very tricky to get any priority assigned to changing this, considering that all-or-nothing is as near to zero risk as makes no difference. This isn't like mobile device permissions where one's real life can suffer consequences. In contrast, for SL Experiences, the very worst that could ever possibly happen would be a mild, momentary, and trivially reversed inconvenience in how the in-world controls operate and in the default view of the virtual world. Doesn't affect anything at all, really. But nonetheless, that exhaustive list of permissions requested is pretty intimidating, regardless of how gently the script tries to introduce the need for this daunting list.

20 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a flight detector is a good place to start with this.  Might also want to see if the detector device you have can also detect speed/jump boosters as well. If not the scripter you bought it from would probably be able to add this in as well

Yeah, and at the same time I wouldn't rule out requiring an Experience on this region. It would simplify the scripting. And if the whole property is all about this zombie game, personally I'd demand that visitors accept an associated Experience. Everybody is already participating in the same immersion, so nobody has grounds to complain or refuse, so there's no reason to permit exceptions.

I'm curious, though, how one would go about reliably detecting speed/jump boosters. With tight enough tracking of avatar motion, I guess one might detect really extreme boosting, but in a crowded sim it would be impractically laggy to do it this way, so I'm not sure where I'd start with this if it were up to me.

[Gabriele Graves]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

In contrast, for SL Experiences, the very worst that could ever possibly happen would be a mild, momentary, and trivially reversed inconvenience in how the in-world controls operate and in the default view of the virtual world. Doesn't affect anything at all, really.

You could make the same case for pretty much any kind of griefing that affects your avatar's appearance or movement.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Gabriele Graves
snipped more from the quote

[Qie Niangao]

5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You could make the same case for pretty much any kind of griefing that affects your avatar's appearance or movement.

Kinda, but for an Experience there's a single button that turns it all off instantly. If that were true of personal griefing I'm not sure it would cause trouble enough to amuse even the griefer. (Even so, I'm much more concerned with regional griefing that affects service to all accounts that want to use that region.)

[Wulfie Reanimator]

2 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You could make the same case for pretty much any kind of griefing that affects your avatar's appearance or movement.

You're not wrong (in anything that you've said), but not everyone can even get an Experience. Any random avatar could be a griefer in disguise, but an Experience is backed by a Premium user who necessary has some kind of payment info on record, and that user is responsible for everything that happens through that Experience.

These factors greatly reduce the likelihood of griefing, as ultimately there's someone with something to lose, unlike your average griefer who can just make a new account for free every time.

Now, that fact doesn't mean that your average user will understand this, nor that even veteran scripters like me can't have an irrational unease with the prompt.

I do believe that more people are more comfortable with RLV than Experiences, only because RLV is so ubiquitous after so many years (without any "scary prompts," no less) while Experiences are still a new feature.

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Qie Niangao said:

Kinda, but for an Experience there's a single button that turns it all off instantly. If that were true of personal griefing I'm not sure it would cause trouble enough to amuse even the griefer. (Even so, I'm much more concerned with regional griefing that affects service to all accounts that want to use that region.)

I am not sure that would be true in the case of a malicious animation.  I can see the way you feel.  Others including me feel differently about it.  So we'll have to disagree about that.