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9 hours ago, Mollymews said:

Sabrina, is not a simple task to port the viewer to another render engine. If it were simple then any number of TPV devs would have done this already, just because they could

the viewer codebase has been opensource for over 12 years now and in all this time nobody has done it and released their effort publicly, not even a port to DirectX

Actually you are right, the proof of concept would be a working viewer. Some work has been done between Unity and Opensimulator but it has been abandoned I think?

 

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2010/06/30/making-history-with-unity-and-opensim/

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They tried what you are suggesting (at the OP obviously). It was called Sansar. In many areas it outdid Second Life by miles.    And you know what?  It didn't work. Why? Because the PEOPLE L

I have been an active member of SL for way too long over 13 years of my life and it has been an amazing ride LL has made some improvements to improve are experience but the improvements are coming so

They did this. It was called Sansar. (And someone else did it independently too, with Sinespace). Both of them failed because there's something that SL needs much more than it needs fancy graphics.

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10 hours ago, Sabrina Tamerlane said:

 the proof of concept would be a working viewer

pretty much yes

i think tho that after the Cloud Uplift is complete and no  longer a major distraction of resources, then we probably see some much more dev effort/resources going in on the inworld experience 

i think too that the Linden dev team would love to be bring some of the features found in other render engines to SL, like cloth and liquid physics, kinematics, etc

is never about professional devs not being able to do any of these things, they can. Is more about the business priorities of the employer in allocating available resources

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On 10/8/2020 at 10:52 PM, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, basically this.  Plus I'm not going to put a thing on my head and block my view.  What if an intruder came into my home?  I cannot risk such a thing.  Plus, I've heard those head things hurt your neck and cause sea sickness and I am very prone to sea sickness.  So, Sansar or VR for me, no.  Plus, about 9 maps to upload for some things...that would cost a fortune in upload feeds.  If people begin to use 24 megapixel cameras with the details already baked into the photograph, it might be worth building such a place as it would be cost efficient.  Nine maps, forget about it.  It's amazing what a 24-megapixel camera can capture.  Then you just meld the photo onto an AO.  

So, I agree with what you wrote pretty much.

However, SL may have to change "some time" as, logically, most things do advance eventually.  Since the cloud and BOM my ffs jumped up about 11 to 13 which is great but I still have some jelly dolls at times but it is running better for the avatars yet kind of a little quirky for building.  I've had to send a report to LL about it.  I pay money for the stuff I build.  I don't want it ruined.  

I dont think you understand the pint of the video it as not a game or something you have to like it was showing off the fact that engine 5 can handle billions of triangles... you put 1 billion tringles in a world in SL I think SL would poop its self and probably crash :P so don't try I don't even think the uploader could handle this it has enough problems with 100K triangles 

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On 10/8/2020 at 10:52 PM, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, basically this.  Plus I'm not going to put a thing on my head and block my view.  What if an intruder came into my home?  I cannot risk such a thing.  Plus, I've heard those head things hurt your neck and cause sea sickness and I am very prone to sea sickness.  So, Sansar or VR for me, no.  Plus, about 9 maps to upload for some things...that would cost a fortune in upload feeds.  If people begin to use 24 megapixel cameras with the details already baked into the photograph, it might be worth building such a place as it would be cost efficient.  Nine maps, forget about it.  It's amazing what a 24-megapixel camera can capture.  Then you just meld the photo onto an AO.  

So, I agree with what you wrote pretty much.

However, SL may have to change "some time" as, logically, most things do advance eventually.  Since the cloud and BOM my ffs jumped up about 11 to 13 which is great but I still have some jelly dolls at times but it is running better for the avatars yet kind of a little quirky for building.  I've had to send a report to LL about it.  I pay money for the stuff I build.  I don't want it ruined.  

I don't think you understand the point of the video it as not a game or something you have to like it was showing off the fact that engine 5 can handle billions of triangles... you put 1 billion tringles in a world in SL I think SL would poop its self and probably crash :P so don't try I don't even think the uploader could handle this it has enough problems with 100K triangles more or less this engine would make SL lag free and no limitations to creators! SL its self would be the same old SL just with out the problems 

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Maybe showing my age, but this reminds me of the time when Apple began upgrading from OS 9 to OS X. There were a few years where there were "Universal" apps that worked on both types of systems, but eventually people stopped developing for OS 9 because it was clear OS X was the future.

I recently rejoined SL after being away for years and I'm sort of struck that the graphics are still more or less the same as they were back then. As someone else pointed out, we mostly come here for features other than graphics, but I think if SL wants to grow, or keep up, it will need to improve the graphics performance... or maybe I need a better graphics card in my PC ;-) Still, I looked at the Creation Portal on the Second Life Wiki and noticed the last time someone edited it was in 2012. Are all of the links that old? Are there any newer articles that could be added, or could older ones be updated? The wiki's theme isn't even responsive or mobile friendly.

I hope the powers-that-be will take a look at the ecosystem surrounding SL and realize it's no longer the new bright and shiny viral sensation it was 10 - 15 years ago. If I were a doctor and Second Life was my patient, I would tell it to get a little more exercise and watch its cholesterol.

FWIW I noticed the latest edition of "Second Life: The Official Guide" is copyright 2008. I haven't gone through it, but I wonder how much of its information still holds up.

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1 hour ago, XinIndiana said:

Maybe showing my age, but this reminds me of the time when Apple began upgrading from OS 9 to OS X. There were a few years where there were "Universal" apps that worked on both types of systems, but eventually people stopped developing for OS 9 because it was clear OS X was the future.

I recently rejoined SL after being away for years and I'm sort of struck that the graphics are still more or less the same as they were back then. As someone else pointed out, we mostly come here for features other than graphics, but I think if SL wants to grow, or keep up, it will need to improve the graphics performance... or maybe I need a better graphics card in my PC 😉 Still, I looked at the Creation Portal on the Second Life Wiki and noticed the last time someone edited it was in 2012. Are all of the links that old? Are there any newer articles that could be added, or could older ones be updated? The wiki's theme isn't even responsive or mobile friendly.

I hope the powers-that-be will take a look at the ecosystem surrounding SL and realize it's no longer the new bright and shiny viral sensation it was 10 - 15 years ago. If I were a doctor and Second Life was my patient, I would tell it to get a little more exercise and watch its cholesterol.

FWIW I noticed the latest edition of "Second Life: The Official Guide" is copyright 2008. I haven't gone through it, but I wonder how much of its information still holds up.

I think you bring up some good points (to which I have no clue as to their answers), especially on the dates of articles and the less than friendly Wiki. As to the graphics? Hm. Maybe, but I started in 2009 and the graphics/viewers have improved a lot. I take mainly unedited, raw screenshot SL photography. In other words, I can view and walk around in SL exactly as my photos show.  I am currently using Black Dragon viewer or Firestorm (I've never used the LL viewer). Here's a shot from a recent exploration, (@ lotus palace) ymmv :) :

 

lotuspalacehotel 091720Prexize_001.png

ETA: No, I don't have a fancy computer. I have a 2nd-hand desktop, that *was* a good computer back in its day. AMD Phenom II X6 1090T w NVIDIA GeForce  GTX 970. I started out in SL on a decent laptop.

 

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On 10/10/2020 at 3:56 PM, Tresia Beck said:

I don't think you understand the point of the video it as not a game or something you have to like it was showing off the fact that engine 5 can handle billions of triangles... you put 1 billion tringles in a world in SL I think SL would poop its self and probably crash :P so don't try I don't even think the uploader could handle this it has enough problems with 100K triangles more or less this engine would make SL lag free and no limitations to creators! SL its self would be the same old SL just with out the problems 

I didn't watch it with the sound on...but it looked like a Lara Croft Quest game where upon there are enough "quest" games and most of us here do not want a quest game.  However, yes, I'm sure you were showing how things could be done differently but that video looked like a quest game meets National Geographic and there was no art in it.

However, it's not just triangles and it's not just textures, it's all the scripts.  Now with BOM we can eliminate the scripts that all the appliers had which is terrific; however, builders will probably start to make HUDs again for the BOM stuff as it's seen SL is basically too difficult for the average user and the average user needs everything at the touch of one button which lags up the whole place.  HUDs were originally made for builders and landlord's so they could quickly go through their textures to see what looked best on a build without having to search their whole inventory or for landlord's to go through different texture possibilities for a rental home such as wallpapers.  Then HUDS came along for everything which is tons of scripts.  If builder's will leave out the scripted HUDS now that BOM is here, it is running better since BOM.  

Whatever the graphics are going to be in the future, I believe it's nearing time to at least have 1024 texture size if builders will agree to eliminate some of these 'all has to be one button' scripts.  People can learn to detach and attach without a HUD.   It is not difficult to detach and attach items.  Good grief.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 10/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, Tresia Beck said:

I have been an active member of SL for way too long over 13 years of my life and it has been an amazing ride LL has made some improvements to improve are experience but the improvements are coming so slowly and I fear the cost to bring SL to the point it needs to be at is way too costly to even consider...

Normally when a games engine gets too old you stop supporting it and make a new game to replace it witch tends to be the cheaper rout but with SL you cant do this :(

I just dream of the Day Secondlife takes on a hole new life but the real question ?is it even possible!!!?  

I ask again is it even possible for SL to upgrade to unreal engine 5?

Apparently they have what it takes in longevity, I mean its no pacman but it has sustained it fanbase.

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7 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

If builder's will leave out the scripted HUDS now that BOM is here, it is running better since BOM.

The main purpose of BoM was to remove multiple texture and mesh layers, nothing to do with scripts. Check any of the bodies that are BoM, most if not all still have multiple layers (albeit less) due to BoM neglections, all have scripts that are still about the same impact as they were in the past. A general script in the body still has to provide tinting, colour options, layer options, alpha options, alpha save options, applier options etc.

This despite the fact that if BoM was done properly and not half a** you would have the need for none of the fore mentioned scripts.

7 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Whatever the graphics are going to be in the future, I believe it's nearing time to at least have 1024 texture size if builders will agree to eliminate some of these 'all has to be one button' scripts.  People can learn to detach and attach without a HUD.   It is not difficult to detach and attach items.  Good grief.  

Or LL could pull their finger out and update their viewer to incorporate all of this to remove the need for any HUD entirely. Why for instance does LL still not incorporate the AO 'HUD' into its viewer. Firestorm have had an AO in viewer (as complicated as it is) for years that LL could have built on further to allow for an easy AO system.

For example they could have made it so that their viewer AO allows for AO creators to sell just a simple LL organised notecard with all animations provided through the viewer as UUID's. This would mean that no animations would be transferred to the user (unless necessary) to clutter inventory (a large inv is an issue for sim crossings) and be a plug and play system whereby you just open a menu in your outfit menu called AO's select the AO notecard, load it, and everything just works. No extra AO HUD script needed.

Body HUD's could have been incorporated into the viewer where when BoM was introduced you could go to your wardrobe/outfit manager and it comes up with a standardised tinting overlay system per layer, an alpha system where they have built into the viewer alpha layers that you just select and it applies to whatever mesh body you wear. Not to mention providing material capabilities to BoM. The need for body maker alpha HUD's should have been obsolete with system alphas now usable. No Body HUD needed.

The free swim in LL water HUD could be removed if LL just incorporated it into their viewer. No Swim HUD needed.

Heck, they could even programme a user customisable in viewer menu system that would allow a creator to use and develop a HUD system that shows within the viewer that is saveable separately. Buy the item with a no mod and no transferable 'HUD menu' notecard included and simply go to the HUD section of the viewer and select and load the HUD notecard and it just shows as a button on your bottom bar of the viewer you can click on. The only time an attachable HUD should be necessary is if it is there to improve immersion.

For mesh clothing options they could develop a simplified clothing fitted mesh system that allows a person to adjust clothing independently from the body fitted mesh system. Then in the outfit section of the viewer have toggles to adjust the clothing so it doesn't clip with the body and it saves to that specific outfit. Allow the clothing creators to designate it as 'clothing fitted mesh' and hey presto removes the need for Alpha systems to the body almost entirely.

Have a gesture section on the viewer whereby all created gestures are purchasable in this menu and inside of the viewer and once bought are selectable through this menu. Not only removes inventory clutter but also organises it. All in all the marketplace should be entirely inworld not as a website breaking immersion, but that's another topic all together.

There are so many things LL can, should and should have done that would remove so much of the unnecessary HUD's and load on the system improving the SL experience and longevity, however for whatever reason they just don't do it. Just simple things like this would help hugely without even looking at graphics.

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56 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

All in all the marketplace should be entirely inworld not as a website breaking immersion, but that's another topic all together.

You have a lot of stuff in your post and some of it would be awesome but I wanted to say something about your Marketplace comment.

In my post, I was trying to say there are scripts for everything.  It is not difficult to learn how to wear a skin or wear an eyeshadow or change a lipstick by wearing it WITHOUT a HUD as again that was not the purpose for HUDS in the first place.  HUDS were for builder's, not for objects to buy.  And, what I meant is at least with BOM, it at least gets rids of the applier scripts.  However, I'm sure builders are going to put the BOM stuff into a HUD and the whole mess is going to start over again with everything has to be scripted and all one button to push.  It's really ridiculous because no it doesn't.  

I wanted to say something in regards to Marketplace though, if they (LL) put a check where builder's can check optimized or unoptimized, some of the optimized content can be found that way, weeding out a lot of the unoptimized content for user's that want more low lag items because they are perfectly capable of dressing themselves without the need of a push of one button for everything...I mean the one button push is even on lipstick.  It's nuts all these scripts.  It's time to see if optimized content would get the business over unoptimized but LL would need to add that option into the Marketplace.  LL hasn't changed Marketplace much over the years though.  

EDIT:  When the texture HUD was invented a long time ago it was for builder's so they could rez it and see and whole bunch of textures at once without having to dig through their inventory to find textures.  Now, it's really a mess with scripted everything.  It's almost like a low lag revolution has to happen and I kind of doubt seeing that happen.  Meanwhile, even though with BOM my fps jumped up about 11 on average, people will probably ruin all of it by putting BOM stuff into a HUD and saying SL is too difficult to learn how to dress yourself.  No it isn't.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You have a lot of stuff in your post and some of it would be awesome but I wanted to say something about your Marketplace comment.

In my post, I was trying to say there are scripts for everything.  It is not difficult to learn how to wear a skin or wear an eyeshadow or change a lipstick by wearing it WITHOUT a HUD as again that was not the purpose for HUDS in the first place.  HUDS were for builder's, not for objects to buy.  And, what I meant is at least with BOM, it at least gets rids of the applier scripts.  However, I'm sure builders are going to put the BOM stuff into a HUD and the whole mess is going to start over again with everything has to be scripted and all one button to push.  It's really ridiculous because no it doesn't. 

Fair enough and noted. Also Applier HUD's for BoM are already around.

13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I wanted to say something in regards to Marketplace though, if they (LL) put a check where builder's can check optimized or unoptimized, some of the optimized content can be found that way, weeding out a lot of the unoptimized content for user's that want more low lag items because they are perfectly capable of dressing themselves without the need of a push of one button for everything...I mean the one button push is even on lipstick.  It's nuts all these scripts.  It's time to see if optimized content would get the business over unoptimized but LL would need to add that option into the Marketplace.  LL hasn't changed Marketplace much over the years though.  

The entire marketplace needs an update. It looks like something from 2008. Unfortunately as mentioned from someone above most of SL's websites other than the main hasnt been updated in years.

As to optimised or unoptimised content flags on the marketplace, who would determine this? It is already well know that LL's own ARC is garbage and wrong, with promises for years to update it yet like usual it hasn't. LL certainly wont go through each MP item to see how optimised it is, which leaves only two methods. Firstly would be to have it selectable by the creator, however this opens it up to abuse. Secondly would be to have the polygons and load data on the items sale page on MP but this would mean people will need to know exactly what that data means which most SL users don't.

Whilst it would be nice, it just wont happen. You still have people arguing that a mono script which shows in the script usage as 64kb (it doesnt show less I believe) is bad.

As to the prevalence of scripts, a lot of that has to do with decisions LL have made for the worse. Them not updating LSL for years has meant people having to script more to get the same result a simple LSL update could do. LL in many cases are their worst enemy.

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11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Firstly would be to have it selectable by the creator, however this opens it up to abuse. Secondly would be to have the polygons and load data on the items sale page on MP but this would mean people will need to know exactly what that data means which most SL users don't.

Oh absolutely I mean a check box that would need to be checked by the creator if the content is optimized.   So let's say there is a hypothetical guideline for this.  Now, a creator checks optimized.  Well, how about putting a demo so the potential buyer can check the item out?  It's the right thing to do rather than let people buy blindly.  I simply believe it is not that difficult to add a demo of any item on Marketplace, even furniture.  It really isn't.  I've been doing it.  Soon all my items will be demos - all, and I have some furniture.  I have furniture that has demos now.  

There is an easy way to read triangles (polygons) and texture size in FIRESTORM so give people a notecard in a demo.  You just turn the feature on.  I believe it's ADVANCED menu then RENDER METADATA and then check triangles and/or texture to see how many polygons and/or what the texture sizes are.  

EDIT:  No, it's not ADVANCED, it's DEVELOPER menu, which may be under ADVANCED...I'm not sure.  p.s.  Sorry for my sloppy typing.  I've just been working a lot.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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36 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Oh absolutely I mean a check box that would need to be checked by the creator if the content is optimized.   So let's say there is a hypothetical guideline for this.  Now, a creator checks optimized.  Well, how about putting a demo so the potential buyer can check the item out?  It's the right thing to do rather than let people buy blindly.  I simply believe it is not that difficult to add a demo of any item on Marketplace, even furniture.  It really isn't.  I've been doing it.  Soon all my items will be demos - all, and I have some furniture.  I have furniture that has demos now.  

But once again you are relying on the person to be truthful. I to agree a demo should be possible for everything, however its just not going to happen. People would argue against it somehow such as "if I offer a demo it can be copybotted" etc. We all know that to be wrong but they will just not offer a demo for furniture etc.

The only possible way to encourage optimisation is to firstly improve the upload systems LL offer (they wont) and secondly for LL to offer incentives for people to do so such as lower marketplace fees for optimised and higher for unoptimised. Unfortunately once again they wont do the latter.

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3 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

"if I offer a demo it can be copybotted" etc.

Probably but it isn't difficult to put a demo.   

You know we are a push-button society, but I don't think push-button society was Philip Rosedale's vision for Second Life.  Yet, here we are with push button everything like we are a bunch of dummies.  SL should teach people how to change without a HUD after initial landing.  

And as far as BOM and my saying there will be HUDS again most likely...I'm not talking about the Huds that come with the mesh bodies or the heads...I'm talking about the additional skin makers and make-up makers.  With BOM most of these will be the tattoo symbol or the little yellow person symbol where you wear the skin or the tattoo....right?  But, my fear is there will be a way to think up HUDS for the tattoo and yellow person skins too.  

 

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17 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

However, it's not just triangles and it's not just textures, it's all the scripts.

The amount of scripts around you has no effect on how well your viewer can render images on your screen. You're talking about two totally different factors.

The way that the graphical rendering is written by the programmers at LL is what's the biggest reason everybody suffers more or less the same. No one else has made a serious attempt at rewriting the SL viewer with modern technology for modern hardware.

My toaster may be inherently slow at calculation things, but your military-grade gaming station is only going to get diminishing returns on performance because of how the code inherently works.

Sure, scripts do also contribute to sim lag, but I think that's a much smaller problem that's harder to fix and isn't as easy to appreciate as high viewer framerates. (Having your actions delayed or movement rubberbanding is not very noticeable when your framerate is in the teens.)

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The amount of scripts around you has no effect on how well your viewer can render images on your screen. You're talking about two totally different factors.

The way that the graphical rendering is written by the programmers at LL is what's the biggest reason everybody suffers more or less the same. No one else has made a serious attempt at rewriting the SL viewer with modern technology for modern hardware.

My toaster may be inherently slow at calculation things, but your military-grade gaming station is only going to get diminishing returns on performance because of how the code inherently works.

Sure, scripts do also contribute to sim lag, but I think that's a much smaller problem that's harder to fix and isn't as easy to appreciate as high viewer framerates. (Having your actions delayed or movement rubberbanding is not very noticeable when your framerate is in the teens.)

Yes but some things need a 1024 texture or it looks lousy.  We don't need all lipsticks scripted.  All this scripting which I feel is lagging the whole place up is not needed.   I don't want a low resolution BOM skin, they look lousy on today's equipment.  That's why I say we need a way to get to 1024 texture size at least.   I'm pretty fed up with all the scripting but in Tinyland we've already had or have a revolution.  Tinies, for the most part, (the ones who know about the revolution) wear low lag optimized content - no scripts or very little perhaps once in a great while and 512 textures or smaller.  I'm pretty fed up with all the scripting - it's not a need for each and every eyeliner to be scripted in order to apply it, etc, etc, etc....  

And, furthermore, I was in SL years ago for the second time and there were NOT all these HUDS for everything.  SL ran fine, no jelly dolls.  Plus, users knew how to use copy and modify.  Copy and modify is supposed to be like this:  you copy the item you wish to modify; next you modify it, and next you delete the scripts of your modified object while you keep a copy of the original which you can then copy and modify again.  People aren't doing that in today's SL.  It's a script free for all.  I have been so frustrated with it I was going to start a thread with the title STOP SCRIPTING EVERYTHING but then realized it would probably do little good as there is no information for the general SL users who don't visit the forums on how to have a better lag-free SL.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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47 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes but some things need a 1024 texture or it looks lousy.  We don't need all lipsticks scripted.  All this scripting which I feel is lagging the whole place up is not needed.   I don't want a low resolution BOM skin, they look lousy on today's equipment.  That's why I say we need a way to get to 1024 texture size at least.   I'm pretty fed up with all the scripting but in Tinyland we've already had or have a revolution.  Tinies, for the most part, (the ones who know about the revolution) wear low lag optimized content - no scripts or very little perhaps once in a great while and 512 textures or smaller.  I'm pretty fed up with all the scripting - it's not a need for each and every eyeliner to be scripted in order to apply it, etc, etc, etc....  

You can be fed up with scripts but that doesn't make scripts as bad as you may think. I say this as someone who pays a lot of attention to script counts, averages below 30 scripts per avatar with HUDs attached, and would absolutely love for everything to become modifiable again.

The fact that different shades of lipstick come in separate appliers does not mean your avatar is laggy, because more than likely you are never wearing those appliers after the first click. Scripts in your inventory don't actively contribute to viewer lag nor sim lag.

What are you on about texture sizes anyway? SL has 1024 textures and even BOM supports it.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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22 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

What are you on about texture sizes anyway? SL has 1024 textures and even BOM supports it.

I never said SL does not support 1024 textures.  However, many 'complain' it's an unoptimized object or creation if it contains textures larger than 512.  As far as my builds, I use 1024's sparingly but I am not going to use 512 textures for my BOM skins.   There are just some things that need a 1024.  However, I use all sizes in different builds...my BOM fairy eye make-up for instance which I am making which you wear and then detach from yourself (no HUD or scripts) are going to be 512 textures.

I still say that yes scripts do cause lag and I don't want to go around and around with you on that Wulfie because you know darn well we are supposed to copy, modify, delete scripts.  So, don't keep quoting me about it and that scripts don't cause lag.  Thank you.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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52 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I never said SL does not support 1024 textures.  However, many 'complain' it's an unoptimized object or creation if it contains textures larger than 512.  As far as my builds, I use 1024's sparingly but I am not going to use 512 textures for my BOM skins.   There are just some things that need a 1024.  However, I use all sizes in different builds...my BOM fairy eye make-up for instance which I am making which you wear and then detach from yourself (no HUD or scripts) are going to be 512 textures.

I think you are confusing what people mean in regards to 1024 textures being unoptimised. No one I know that has argued about optimisation regards 1024 textures as unoptimised. They are a necessity in building. What people do argue insofar as 1024 textures goes is that their use on small objects are unoptimised.

I'll use your lipstick analogy as an example. Placing a 1024 texture on a stick of lipstick that is a small object as far as texture space goes is unoptimised. Textures should always be placed relative to the surface area of the object. The smaller the object the smaller the texture. In the lipstick example a 32 sized texture is more than ample (I would say overkill). In a furniture chair example depending on the complexity of what the texture is trying to convey a 256 size texture is ample size (this is for say a leather look - a floral pattern may justify a 512 texture to ensure that the detail isn't lost in the stretching of the material).

Generally, most would say that 1024 textures should only be used for high detailed skin textures and very large objects such as background scenes etc or where you are using the 1024 texture as a uv mapped texture covering multiple areas of the object.

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I still say that yes scripts do cause lag and I don't want to go around and around with you on that Wulfie because you know darn well we are supposed to copy, modify, delete scripts.  So, don't keep quoting me about it and that scripts don't cause lag.  Thank you.  

Any sim that states that you need to remove all of your HUD's and scripted items have done two things:

Firstly, have not understood how scripting works. This is evident by them calculating mono scripts running at less 64kb as the full 64kb. A mono script can run at less than 64kb as it only uses what it requires but will still show as 64kb or whatever amount has been set by llSetMemoryLimit(). So for example those big signs sims have saying 'x' person is using 3200kb (50x64kb) of script memory could be using 50 mono scripts running at a specific time only 400kb (50x8kb). The same would go for a single mono script showing as an allowance of 3200kb but only using 500kb at any given time. The larger size is always however taken as it is always using that amount of memory when it isnt.

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Secondly, is usually a case that the sim owners are themselves impacting the sims performance more than any avatar could by having to many scripts on the sim. Its fine for them to say remove all of an avatars scripts but they themselves have objects on the sim with resize scripts in them, landscaping with scripts for texture changes in them, houses with rez scripts for object, dynamic weather scripts, etc. If they optimised their sim content they could have 50 people on a sim and see no lag at all. My response to those kind of people is for them to remove all the unnecessary scripts on their sim first then I will remove the little amount of scripts running on my avatar.

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You also have to remember that there are many other things that can cause lag one being the physics of a sim which is entirely forgotten most times. For example, a person walking through a grass field set to phantom on a sim will reduce the sims performance in its physics allowance even though it doesn't stop a person from moving like a hard object would. The more people walking through the grass at the same time the more impact it has and more lag. If those sim owners just linked that grass to an object that actually needs physics like a rock and set the physics of the grass to 'no physics' it can improve performance.

The same thing can be done for furniture or landscaping or anything where you might need an invisible prim for a shadow or for a animation extra seat in old AVSitter scripts. Setting that prim as non root and 'no physics', linked to the chair as a whole can help with sim performance.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I still say that yes scripts do cause lag and I don't want to go around and around with you on that Wulfie because you know darn well we are supposed to copy, modify, delete scripts.  So, don't keep quoting me about it and that scripts don't cause lag.  Thank you.  

You don't have to act so defensive. I am not trying to deny that scripts can cause lag for both the viewer, network, and the sim, depending on what they do or how many of them exist. I've been a scripter for almost a decade, I'd be insane to try making a claim like that. What I am saying is that scripts are not as bad as you seem to think they are. The way you're wording your posts is pretty aggressive about your opinion -- unnecessarily so.

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I never said SL does not support 1024 textures.  However, many 'complain' it's an unoptimized object or creation if it contains textures larger than 512.

You didn't say it, but I wasn't sure if you were trying to imply as if we couldn't use 1024 textures at all or something else. I'm glad that's cleared up.

But those people who call all 1024s unoptimized are ignorant and their opinion should be discarded.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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