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Prokofy Neva
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7 minutes ago, sunnyrio said:

because in real life there are thousands times more things you can do.

Oh hell, yes, and better. But so many things I can't do in real life, but can be be simulated here. Maybe not brilliantly, but with other people just looking to have fun, enjoy the experience, make mistakes, help out.......no goals, no pressure, no competition (unless you want to join in that - it's out there). 

Just like in Real Life, join a few groups, attend a few functions/events, get yourself known, learn the flavour of the group and stay or go. Things start to fall into place after a little while.

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Missing? Like what?

As for the camera - Disable Camera Constraints (sorry, cannot remember if there's a menu entry for it or not in the Linden Lab provided Basic Viewer so you may have to go tracking down a Debug or Advanced menu entry for it).

Mind you this will not help you if you're right up on a wall and looking at any angle that would place your camera fully outside the structure - there's no 'fix' for that other than not being in that position at all.

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32 minutes ago, sunnyrio said:

Never thought about a profile or knew such a thing existed

Blank profiles are a kiss-of-death in SL. You will be regarded as a person who doesn't want to be known in any shape or form. Put a bit about yourself in there - no need for any RL details, just your likes (and any definite no-noes) - maybe your abilities too?

Right-click your avatar, select profile from the pie chart and fill a few details in. Don't forget to save it with the OK button!

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On 10/9/2020 at 7:02 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

You're welcome to go fly around Grote and Slosser and see if it triggers for you. But it might not. Maybe you don't have the same AV (AVG). Maybe some other factor like ISP or browser or who knows what in combination triggers this. But all the areas have been policed for URLs, etc. and they aren't the cause and all have been erased anyways and it still triggers.

There's lots of media around that location, including some weird stuff hidden underwater.
I didn't get any warnings from my antivirus (Avira) but a lot of the MOAP media there is not locked down so anyone can change the media URL & point it to a dodgy website.

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4 hours ago, Odaks said:

It really isn't a "game" as such, at all, despite what some people think. I wonder sometimes what people's expectations are when they join. There's the thread running at the moment about the onboarding experience. Perhaps this should include "what were you expecting/looking for" in the process?

 

Of course it's a game!  It's a program run on a computer for the purposes of entertainment, the very definition of a computer game!  You don't..... think it's real do you?  You do know those avatars are just computer generated?  You realise that what goes on in there isn't the same as real life?  When you have sex in the game you aren't actually pregnant when you close the program. It's a multiplayer game.  Just because more than one person is in it doesn't stop it being a game.

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22 minutes ago, sunnyrio said:

Of course it's a game!  It's a program run on a computer for the purposes of entertainment, the very definition of a computer game!  You don't..... think it's real do you?  You do know those avatars are just computer generated?  You realise that what goes on in there isn't the same as real life?  When you have sex in the game you aren't actually pregnant when you close the program. It's a multiplayer game.  Just because more than one person is in it doesn't stop it being a game.

In the sense that most gamers think of games, it's not A game.  Of course we don't think it's real, don't be silly but..as quoted:

Linden Lab, the company that created the platform that is Second Life, is emphatic that their creation is not a game. “There is no manufactured conflict, no set objective,” says spokesperson Catherine Smith. “It’s an entirely open-ended experience.”

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3 hours ago, sunnyrio said:

a program run on a computer for the purposes of entertainment, the very definition of a computer game! 

That definition will easily scoop up just about everything and anything you can load; "games" being merely a fractional part.

@RowanMinx provides a succinct answer. To be a "game", within most people's definition, there must be some or all of directions, aims, objectives, targets, achievements, scoring, etc. Second Life has none of these whatsoever, except where scripted/built by residents themselves as a subset experience. Nothing of that nature is provided.

Second Life is truly, as Catherine Smith states,  "an entirely open-ended experience".

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8 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

There's lots of media around that location, including some weird stuff hidden underwater.
I didn't get any warnings from my antivirus (Avira) but a lot of the MOAP media there is not locked down so anyone can change the media URL & point it to a dodgy website.

There may be "a lot of media AROUND that location," but what's operative is *what is on each individual parcel*. I've gone through every parcel where this occurs and erased the URL, put media to "none" and looked for deeded items. Yes, I'm aware as you fly around, the media from a previous lot may still snag you as you go on to a new lot. But going to all adjacent lots where this occurs, I don't see anything that could cause this -- yet it persists, and shows in my logs.

I'll see what this "weird stuff underwater" is. Thanks for checking.

UPDATE: Not sure what you mean by "weird". If you mean UNDER water, there is only the anc trampoline, fish, plants, a treasure chest -- nothing with MOAP. In fact I'm not seeing any MOAP at all on the parcels where I get the AVG triggered. If you mean under the water literally, I took off surface patch and water -- can't see anything. So IM me with more specific comments if you have time.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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15 hours ago, sunnyrio said:

You forgot five even more important things:

11. Most places I visit are so dark I have to override with midday so I can see where I'm going.

12. In places with walls, like er.... any building, the camera is often in a different room to the avatar if you're looking over their shoulder.

13. There's so few people using Second Life for the size of it you seldom meet anyone.

14. You very quickly run out of things to do.

15. The graphics look like something from 20 years ago, even on full settings on a decent machine.

I think I'll hold off playing for 5 years and see if they improve it.  I can think of 20 better games than this.
 

This is an interesting list. I was sticking to technical problems; you're going over into socio-cultural problems, but that's fine.

I totally agree with you about the dark. I feel most sims are taking their cue from the pitch-blackness of an anxiety or Lux Aeterna skybox where you completely disappear into hellacious death even if you use one of those handy bright "nipple" camper lights the Moles supply. The worst is when turning on "midday" does no good at all. This is a question of personal taste, I guess, and a sign of the times; I don't *think* it's a technical issue.

I think the camera issue can be adjusted. At least long ago I adjusted it from the default because it drove me crazy. I forget where it is but it's on the menu somewhere.

I often feel there are too many people in SL. But then that's because I run a rentals company and go to events. I like SL solitude myself, I like to fly around and explore or build by myself. 

I never run out of things to do, it's always unfinished. But I think all this has to do with whether you find something to "stick" to in SL. And maybe you can't, in which case it's not for you. It's hard to find like-minded persons. 

As for the graphics, I have a Best Buy computer so I don't expect anything really.

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16 hours ago, sunnyrio said:

11. Most places I visit are so dark I have to override with midday so I can see where I'm going.

12. In places with walls, like er.... any building, the camera is often in a different room to the avatar if you're looking over their shoulder

with Linden viewer

on 11 then it helps to set menu: Advanced \ Show Debug Settings \ EnvironmentPersistAcrossLogin = TRUE

on 12. When we stand close to a wall then the camera will move forward until the wall is behind the camera. When we sit on a  chair against a wall then the camera doesn't move forward as it does for walk, because it is up to the creator of the chair to script the camera to suit the particular chair/animation pose

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14 hours ago, sunnyrio said:

I tried Firestorm and didn't like it, it had a few things missing and was less easy to use than the standard viewer.

It's not just tiny rooms, you only need to be close to a wall and turn round, and the camera goes outside.

I don't like the cam close to my head, it's more realistic if I can see the avatar.

Never thought about a profile or knew such a thing existed.  Actually I think I saw something when I clicked on another player once.  But I can't find yours on this website though.  Where do you look?  And I've no idea what to write in one anyway.  My hobbies in real life?  Is that of any interest inside the game?

Yeah well I never did like chatrooms.  It's not like real life is it?  I'll discuss a topic on a newsgroup or forum, but I've never seen the point in "friends" in a virtual world.

I've explored what others have built and it's not really that interesting.  Mainly because of the limitations of the engine.  You can't do much apart from look at, sit on, and have sex on everything.

I'm not boring in real life, because in real life there are thousands times more things you can do.

Then leave.

For the forums: Why try to get someone to stay when their being in Second Life will benefit neither themselves nor the rest of Second Life?

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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16 hours ago, Odaks said:

That definition will easily scoop up just about everything and anything you can load; "games" being merely a fractional part.

@RowanMinx provides a succinct answer. To be a "game", within most people's definition, there must be some or all of directions, aims, objectives, targets, achievements, scoring, etc. Second Life has none of these whatsoever, except where scripted/built by residents themselves as a subset experience. Nothing of that nature is provided.

Second Life is truly, as Catherine Smith states,  "an entirely open-ended experience".

Making it a sandbox game. SL is infact a game. A game nowadays includes everything and all that is not a program, a program being a tool or work-application such as photoshop, blender, paint etc. As already described anything aiming for entertainment is a game unless it is some kind of visual or audio media (such as music, videos, pictures etc). Games being part of media as well.

SL calls itself a Virtual World but its really just a Sandbox MMO (note just MMO, since its massive multiplayer online and its type is a sandbox). A virtual world is nothing but the old-school name for a sandbox, prior to the point where sandbox became a real category (probably around Minecraft which didn't have a goal either until they later added an endboss which just serves as basic "guidance" for progression since the actual game is about the sandbox, doing whatever you want, building simple or complex things... just like in SL). It still annoys me that so many people try to defend this whole "SL IS NOT A GAME" mentality. What does it change that SL is a game? Nothing. Infact SL itself defends against this claim and so far this has only ever hurt SL. SL would do itself much better if it embraced being a game and looked at some other games to get some inspirations how to solve certain problems. 

Edited by NiranV Dean
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36 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

Making it a sandbox game. SL is infact a game. A game nowadays includes everything and all that is not a program, a program being a tool or work-application such as photoshop, blender, paint etc. As already described anything aiming for entertainment is a game unless it is some kind of visual or audio media (such as music, videos, pictures etc). Games being part of media as well.

SL calls itself a Virtual World but its really just a Sandbox MMO (note just MMO, since its massive multiplayer online and its type is a sandbox). A virtual world is nothing but the old-school name for a sandbox, prior to the point where sandbox became a real category (probably around Minecraft which didn't have a goal either until they later added an endboss which just serves as basic "guidance" for progression since the actual game is about the sandbox, doing whatever you want, building simple or complex things... just like in SL). It still annoys me that so many people try to defend this whole "SL IS NOT A GAME" mentality. What does it change that SL is a game? Nothing. Infact SL itself defends against this claim and so far this has only ever hurt SL. SL would do itself much better if it embraced being a game and looked at some other games to get some inspirations how to solve certain problems. 

Yep, all.of that is true.  However, it is NOT what the typical gamer thinks of as a game.  They really are 2 separate types of games if you just have to call SL a game and the SL type will probably never appeal to the other type.

But imma stick with, IT'S NOT A GAME.  (Caps only cause you did it first)

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Regarding the game/no game debate/argument, as a newbie, I find this argument odd. I personally saw Second Life as a game before I started going through the forums because it looked like one to me - like a sandbox, open-world sort of game. There seemed to be all these destinations to see, different ways to dress up your avatar...

If you had told me something along the lines of "Second Life is a virtual world where you can chat with other people", I'd be pretty confused about what a virtual world actually entailed. I saw the chat and community function mentioned as the main aspect of Second Life, but to be frank, if someone's looking to chat, I'd think they'd turn to social media like Facebook first, where the UI is much more intuitive. Or maybe they'd go to a forum like this one.

I am sure there is a history and culture as to why people seem to prefer calling it a "virtual world", but in my opinion, this term is extremely dated. It is not often used in gaming circles nowadays, at least the ones I frequent - it would be better termed as a sandbox and/or open-world game. 

Maybe it's a generational thing? I'm a university student and none of the people I know my age play Second Life, but many of them are big into video games, mobile/online/on consoles. I think our generation has come to expect different things when we spend time online 'playing'/exploring a virtual world, when looking at the other options available out there (including things like good graphics, lack of lag).

I think the lack of purpose in Second Life would be fine for many of my friends, so long as they're given some sort of directive about what kinds of options are available in-world, and so long as Second Life gives them a reason to stay and chat over any other games they may have on the go.

Oh, and there is such thing as a pure sandbox game without objectives. The Sims is one that immediately jumps to mind. It's also one of the best-selling video games of all time, and is the best-selling PC franchise ever. Even if it isn't necessarily able to attract everyone in the first-person shooter crowd, it clearly sells extremely well.

Edited by simplemint
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This is a good time to pause for breath and let me thank everyone who has replied so far.

Inevitably, I think, some deviation from the topic is occurring but hopefully there are still to come some more of "things to do" in Second Life.

I suppose that debating the weaknesses of the platform does count as a "thing to do" but that's not what I had in mind when I started this off!

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2 hours ago, Odaks said:

This is a good time to pause for breath and let me thank everyone who has replied so far.

Inevitably, I think, some deviation from the topic is occurring but hopefully there are still to come some more of "things to do" in Second Life.

I suppose that debating the weaknesses of the platform does count as a "thing to do" but that's not what I had in mind when I started this off!

I think you meant this topic since this one was started by @Prokofy Neva

 

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On 10/12/2020 at 9:17 PM, Solar Legion said:

Missing? Like what?

As for the camera - Disable Camera Constraints (sorry, cannot remember if there's a menu entry for it or not in the Linden Lab provided Basic Viewer so you may have to go tracking down a Debug or Advanced menu entry for it).

Mind you this will not help you if you're right up on a wall and looking at any angle that would place your camera fully outside the structure - there's no 'fix' for that other than not being in that position at all.

I can't remember what's missing, I tried firestorm to adjust little things like texture quality and to remove that annoying dot above my head, but it was replaced by another couple of annoyances.  Camera control or something was less easy to use.

The fix for the camera would be for the viewer to not render (or even better make 50% transparent) any object between the camera and your avatar.  If you can't see what you're avatar is seeing, the camera is pointless.

On 10/12/2020 at 9:27 PM, Odaks said:

Blank profiles are a kiss-of-death in SL. You will be regarded as a person who doesn't want to be known in any shape or form. Put a bit about yourself in there - no need for any RL details, just your likes (and any definite no-noes) - maybe your abilities too?

Right-click your avatar, select profile from the pie chart and fill a few details in. Don't forget to save it with the OK button!

I never even knew there was such a thing as a profile until I hovered over someone and it said "no sex please"!  Why wasn't I asked to fill this in during installation?

 

On 10/12/2020 at 11:30 PM, Whirly Fizzle said:

There's lots of media around that location, including some weird stuff hidden underwater.
I didn't get any warnings from my antivirus (Avira) but a lot of the MOAP media there is not locked down so anyone can change the media URL & point it to a dodgy website.

Not sure why people say things like "dodgy website".  You can't get a virus by visiting a site, you have to download something, by your own choice of clicking on something on that page.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 1:42 AM, RowanMinx said:

In the sense that most gamers think of games, it's not A game.  Of course we don't think it's real, don't be silly but..as quoted:

Linden Lab, the company that created the platform that is Second Life, is emphatic that their creation is not a game. “There is no manufactured conflict, no set objective,” says spokesperson Catherine Smith. “It’s an entirely open-ended experience.”

Lots of games don't have an objective.  What you're quoting is just embellished advertising.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 5:38 AM, Odaks said:

That definition will easily scoop up just about everything and anything you can load; "games" being merely a fractional part.

@RowanMinx provides a succinct answer. To be a "game", within most people's definition, there must be some or all of directions, aims, objectives, targets, achievements, scoring, etc. Second Life has none of these whatsoever, except where scripted/built by residents themselves as a subset experience. Nothing of that nature is provided.

Second Life is truly, as Catherine Smith states,  "an entirely open-ended experience".

Absolute twaddle.  A game is a program run on a computer for fun.  It can be solitaire, chess, a car racing game, a fighting game, anything.  But it's for amusement so it's a game.  A word processor is not a game, it's used for productive purposes.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 6:43 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Add to the list of annoyances:

  • endless "is it a game" debates

Which will continue until people stop believing this is something special.  I'm guessing all these believers are also religious.  It takes that kinda mindset.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 7:52 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

There may be "a lot of media AROUND that location," but what's operative is *what is on each individual parcel*. I've gone through every parcel where this occurs and erased the URL, put media to "none" and looked for deeded items. Yes, I'm aware as you fly around, the media from a previous lot may still snag you as you go on to a new lot. But going to all adjacent lots where this occurs, I don't see anything that could cause this -- yet it persists, and shows in my logs.

I'll see what this "weird stuff underwater" is. Thanks for checking.

UPDATE: Not sure what you mean by "weird". If you mean UNDER water, there is only the anc trampoline, fish, plants, a treasure chest -- nothing with MOAP. In fact I'm not seeing any MOAP at all on the parcels where I get the AVG triggered. If you mean under the water literally, I took off surface patch and water -- can't see anything. So IM me with more specific comments if you have time.

Gimme a link to that location.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 7:58 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

This is an interesting list. I was sticking to technical problems; you're going over into socio-cultural problems, but that's fine.

I totally agree with you about the dark. I feel most sims are taking their cue from the pitch-blackness of an anxiety or Lux Aeterna skybox where you completely disappear into hellacious death even if you use one of those handy bright "nipple" camper lights the Moles supply. The worst is when turning on "midday" does no good at all. This is a question of personal taste, I guess, and a sign of the times; I don't *think* it's a technical issue.

I think the camera issue can be adjusted. At least long ago I adjusted it from the default because it drove me crazy. I forget where it is but it's on the menu somewhere.

I often feel there are too many people in SL. But then that's because I run a rentals company and go to events. I like SL solitude myself, I like to fly around and explore or build by myself. 

I never run out of things to do, it's always unfinished. But I think all this has to do with whether you find something to "stick" to in SL. And maybe you can't, in which case it's not for you. It's hard to find like-minded persons. 

As for the graphics, I have a Best Buy computer so I don't expect anything really.

It's a technical issue when you can't see what you're doing!

You've sorted the camera so a wall between the camera and your avatar isn't in the way?  I'd love to know how.

You like solitude but you run a company!?

 

 

On 10/13/2020 at 8:24 AM, Mollymews said:

with Linden viewer

on 11 then it helps to set menu: Advanced \ Show Debug Settings \ EnvironmentPersistAcrossLogin = TRUE

on 12. When we stand close to a wall then the camera will move forward until the wall is behind the camera. When we sit on a  chair against a wall then the camera doesn't move forward as it does for walk, because it is up to the creator of the chair to script the camera to suit the particular chair/animation pose

11. I'll try that.  So it'll keep my midday choice forever?
12. How did you get the camera to behave like that?  Mine does not move forwards of its own accord.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 11:04 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Then leave.

For the forums: Why try to get someone to stay when their being in Second Life will benefit neither themselves nor the rest of Second Life?

What an absurd attitude.  Why not be helpful like others and make suggestions.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 11:09 PM, RowanMinx said:

Yep, all.of that is true.  However, it is NOT what the typical gamer thinks of as a game.  They really are 2 separate types of games if you just have to call SL a game and the SL type will probably never appeal to the other type.

But imma stick with, IT'S NOT A GAME.  (Caps only cause you did it first)

Where do you draw the line?  Chess - game, solitaire game, F1 racing - game.  We can all agree there.  But what about The Sims?  Do you have some weird set rule that you use?

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15 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

There's two I can think of  Virtual world

Which is a subset of "game".  It's loaded into my PC's memory for my amusement, and I interact with it, which means it's a game.  If I didn't interact it would be media, like watching a TV program.

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