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Why SL instead of OpenSim?


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1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

First and foremost, OpenSim is software that you can use to host SL-work-a-like regions on any computer of your choice and use an SL viewer to login to.
Many people use these as a sandbox on their own computer to play around with their own stuff free of the land costs of someone else's grid and SL.
It doesn't even need the internet when used this way.

These grids can be connected to other Opensim "grids" on the internet and it is possible for people to travel between grids with their own grid-independent account.
This is called the Hypergrid.  These grids can also be isolated from other grids to provide a stand-alone service over the internet.

Some people take this software to create their own grids to provide an SL-style service to other free and/or paying customers. 

There is nothing shady or illegal about the Opensim software itself.

Some of these grids try very hard to keep everything there professional and legit but just as in SL (where LL tries very hard to keep everything legit too) or any other internet service, you are often fighting the illegitimate things that your users are doing on your service.
There are also grids using this software who just don't care about what is legit and not from their users and turn a blind eye.
There are also grids that set out, or eventually turn to scamming their paying customers and stealing content.

Hope that helps.

What's the point, though? All your inventory is in SL. Yeah, you can have as many OpenSim regions as you want, and they're about as useful as a netbook without Internet, right?

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14 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

What's the point, though? All your inventory is in SL. Yeah, you can have as many OpenSim regions as you want, and they're about as useful as a netbook without Internet, right?

It all depends on what you want to do.  We wanted to learn how to terraform a set of islands a particular way which we couldn't do in SL without great cost.  We also built our own massive city using prims which again comes at a large cost in SL.  We scripted such things as clocks, vehicles, lighthouse beams, doors, other automated items.  We had a go at creating system clothing , skins and make-up, etc.  This was all before the viewer supported mesh.  My RL partner and I co-created all that we did there and it was a lot of fun.  There are no upload costs and no internet needed, so it can be really fast with no lag.  We created boats for the islands and because those regions were part of a megaregion, there were no region crossing issues.  So the answer is that it can be used to scratch a creative itch and have fun in a way that would have higher costs in SL.  After all it is a sandbox and you are limited only by your imagination and skills.

It isn't for everyone, it is time consuming and in the end we felt we had done what we set out to do, took videos and pictures of it all and stored it all away to focus on other things.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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2 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

First and foremost, OpenSim is software that you can use to host SL-work-a-like regions on any computer of your choice and use an SL viewer to login to.
Many people use these as a sandbox on their own computer to play around with their own stuff free of the land costs of someone else's grid and SL.
It doesn't even need the internet when used this way.

These grids can be connected to other Opensim "grids" on the internet and it is possible for people to travel between grids with their own grid-independent account.
This is called the Hypergrid.  These grids can also be isolated from other grids to provide a stand-alone service over the internet.

Some people take this software to create their own grids to provide an SL-style service to other free and/or paying customers. 

There is nothing shady or illegal about the Opensim software itself.

Some of these grids try very hard to keep everything there professional and legit but just as in SL (where LL tries very hard to keep everything legit too) or any other internet service, you are often fighting the illegitimate things that your users are doing on your service.
There are also grids using this software who just don't care about what is legit and not from their users and turn a blind eye.
There are also grids that set out, or eventually turn to scamming their paying customers and stealing content.

Hope that helps.

I still wouldn't go to a place I don't trust.  But, I will ask one question...is it secure?  I wouldn't give money to this such as $5 dollars a month as said in the OP.  No way, Jose.  

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2 hours ago, Chroma Starlight said:

What's the point, though? All your inventory is in SL. Yeah, you can have as many OpenSim regions as you want, and they're about as useful as a netbook without Internet, right?

Speaking of no inventory, you/me/anyone can request permission to build on the Aditi grid from SL.  You will have no inventory but you receive lindens to upload for free.  It's for building test purposes, the Aditi grid.  You can even upload and work on your mesh for free on Aditi.  There is a Wiki about it and it's from LL but you have to submit a request to receive permission for entrance to Aditi.  

One thing I don't like about Aditi though is it's too bright for me.  It's just an open sandbox with sky and I could not find a good lighting to build there.

This OPEN SIM sounds like the Aditi grid, but the Aditi grid is completely free to build.  Again, you have no inventory but you receive lindens to upload.  After I was admitted, I was given 15K lindens to (upload) build on Aditi.   And, it's secure as far as I know.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Speaking of no inventory, you/me/anyone can request permission to build on the Aditi grid from SL. 

This is the beta grid. This (and testing new Linden Magic) is it's entire purpose. It's a mix of sandboxes, test regions and a smattering of regions copied from the main grid.

It is run as part of SL so is trustworthy.

If you run out of L$ you can request more.

Any inventory you have there is copied from your main SL account,. It may be a little out of date, Anything you create stays on the beta grid so will need to be created again on the main grid. All L$ transactions on the beta grid stay on the beta grid. See http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Preview_Grid

As far as the brightness .. you can change your local environment settings the same as you would in regular SL, to anything you like.

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11 hours ago, Mowri Panache said:

Just a question I’ve always had; 

What makes you choose Second Life over OpenSim? They both run with similar / same graphics, offer primitive and mesh building and customization as well as scripting. OS is infinitely cheaper to run a sim on (entire regions for $5 / month vs Secondlifes $200+). So what makes YOU chose second life and not Open Sim?

For the record, I’ve chosen second life as well. I just want to hear other people’s reasoning.

 

Because Open Sim is dead???

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11 hours ago, Mowri Panache said:

Just a question I’ve always had; 

What makes you choose Second Life over OpenSim? They both run with similar / same graphics, offer primitive and mesh building and customization as well as scripting. OS is infinitely cheaper to run a sim on (entire regions for $5 / month vs Secondlifes $200+). So what makes YOU chose second life and not Open Sim?

For the record, I’ve chosen second life as well. I just want to hear other people’s reasoning.

 

OpenSim wasn't even a pipedream when I first joined SL. I stick with SL because there are more people which means a better chance of meeting an honest friend. On the other hand, there is less of a chance of meeting an honest friend in SL than there is RL. Honest friends tend to be extremely rare in my experience.

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38 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You will have no inventory but you receive lindens to upload for free.

Your main grid inventory is duplicated on the beta grid, eventually, barring hiccoughs.

Unfortunately, your beta grid inventory isn't duplicated on the main grid.

Edited by KT Kingsley
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I've tried OS, Inworldz, Avination maybe another and they've all been dead and you don't have your SL inventory. I think Avination was the one popular SL creators were flocking to and you could transfer you L$ to their C$ in SL the problems Avination & Inworldz for me there was no where to go other than a 'welcome' region you weren't pointed to anywhere and i didn't really see anything other than the region i was in on the map, OSgrid was a little more active but i can only remember being able to stay in the initial region i landed in with no problems. couldn't tp anywhere or go in the shopping area without getting logged or the viewer crashed so soon lost interest 

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43 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

As far as the brightness .. you can change your local environment settings the same as you would in regular SL, to anything you like.

I tried lots of light but I failed.  I am far-sighted so I need glasses for the computer but it was either too dark or too light no matter what I tried.  I think I would need to build a box with walls that I make and build inside that on Aditi.  It saves on lindens as far as uploads everybody because what Aditi is is as Coffee says, it's a testing grid and you receive lindens to build on it.  

Thanks on the inventory correction from the posts above.  I thought it had no inventory that's why you can't spend your lindens on anything but uploading to test how it looks, etc.  I just can't remember having an inventory for some reason.  lol

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4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I still wouldn't go to a place I don't trust.  But, I will ask one question...is it secure?  I wouldn't give money to this such as $5 dollars a month as said in the OP.  No way, Jose.  

For any type of company, there are those who are trustworthy and those who are untrustworthy.  Opensim grid operators are conceptually are no different.  Opensim is open source software and freely available.  The fact that a company is using Opensim to build a virtual world is no different that company using apache software (a common opensource web server) to build a web site.  "Opensim" isn't a place run by a hosting company.  The name isn't even really "Opensim", that is a shortened version of the full name "Opensimulator".

When the OP says "Opensim" they are either referring to the costs of those types that commercial Opensim grid company is charging for land or the costs of paying for hosting with an internet/cloud hosting service but generally for their own use and perhaps their friends to use as well.  I am not 100% clear which one from what is written, most likely the former.

At no time do you ever put your RL info and/or payment information in to Opensim, it never sells you anything and it never asks you for that type of information.

There are (at least) several options for using Opensim:

1) Run Opensim inside your home network.  Nobody who doesn't share your internet connection can connect unless your home network security is abysmally bad.  There is nobody to pay, nobody gets your RL or payment information.

2) Host with a hosting provider (such as Amazon, Azure, Google, etc.).  People do this because they can share with friends and it keeps everything out of their home network as most don't have the data caps, bandwidth or enough security to allow people in at home (just like for a web site).  You are paying Amazon, etc for using server space and bandwidth.  Only Amazon, etc. gets your RL and payment information.  The security is only as good as is provided by your hosting company and how you set it up.  You have to be sure you trust your hosting provider.

3) Commercial grid company using Opensim to run their virtual world.  The ones I knew about let you use it for free but you bought land if you wanted it (basically the SL model).  Opensim doesn't come with services like payment processing, web sites and front door security, it just deals with running the virtual world behind the front door.  The grid company has to build that stuff themselves and it will only be as good as they are able and willing to provide it.  They are the ones implementing security and they are the only ones potentially getting your RL and payment information for the services they are selling you.  This is where you need to be sure you trust the company.

I do know that there have been grids in the past which some recognisable fairly well known content creators did trust, created content there and that people rented regions from.  Most of them end up not being financially viable and closed, at least one ended up "archiving" all the content and taking it with them which upset the content creators there.

Running a grid like SL with software that isn't as mature, as a small business, isn't an easy thing to make work even when people are trustworthy though and that is why there is a near 100% failure rate.  The fact that LL can keep something like SL viable after nearly two decades is a near miracle in itself.

I have no idea of the current state of play with third-party grid operators and how trustworthy any of them are but then I also have no idea how trustworthy most small businesses are on the internet either.
 

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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I tried to spend some time on OSGrid but there I encountered way too many people that were proud to have been banned from Second Life.

I have nothing additional to add to this conversation about the software called OpenSimulator, as I haven't examined it for a long time.

I can't say I have ever examined OpenSim because that's not my sort of simulating.

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I tried a few of the alternative grids including 3rd Rock and Inworldz, but they got boring very quickly with hardly anyone there and hardly anything to buy. 

If I was more of a content creator or a region-builder, and could make my own mesh objects, I'd probably use Opensim and get my own self-contained region as a kind trial-run area. But I am a club owner and clubs need customers, so Opensim is really of no use to me as long as SL continues to exist.

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6 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

If I was more of a content creator or a region-builder, and could make my own mesh objects, I'd probably use Opensim and get my own self-contained region as a kind trial-run area. 

OOH - Thanks for the idea. I probably would find that useful.

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6 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

I tried a few of the alternative grids including 3rd Rock and Inworldz, but they got boring very quickly with hardly anyone there and hardly anything to buy. 

If I was more of a content creator or a region-builder, and could make my own mesh objects, I'd probably use Opensim and get my own self-contained region as a kind trial-run area. But I am a club owner and clubs need customers, so Opensim is really of no use to me as long as SL continues to exist.

One always has the option of getting a copy of Ferd Frederix's Outworldz Dreamgrid installer that has the option of installing any of 100+ preconfigured sims with all free and licensed content. It's fully modifiable with plenty of options. There is a Mewe group wherein many of its users are building and creating for inworld using different meshing tools.

6 hours ago, Rob Huntsman said:

I wish opensim was a thing. I really do, because the performance all around is better then SL plus land is even affordable. However, what binds me to SL is all the merch, and players play SL. Whereas Opensim are just many dead sims.

There is plenty of free and paid content in Opensim just like Secondlife. Even a hypergrid marketplace (Kitely) that is able to ship to any hypergrid enabled grid or standalone. To advertise or promote one's region in Opensim on the Hypergrid, one can pick up a beacon from Opensim World that then ties it to the site so others can find it. There is also a sidebar listing the live traffic of the most popular regions and events for that moment.

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Opensim is just software, and it's fine if you want to run your own small grid to do "SL stuff" in some limited fashion but there are a few reason why it's not a realistic alternative to SL.

  • There are many grids out there but no one has built an infrastructure that can rival with SecondLife.
  • Opensim is far from being feature complete, script wise, it can be difficult to do things because some code features don't work properly or are simply not implemented.
  • LL doesn't provide a lot of protection for creators, but most Opensim grids essentially do not offer anything in this regard.
  • Currency is a pretty important SL feature, and even if you ignore the ability to cash out, even if it is a mere "play token", being able to trade land and assets under some sort of shared value system is important in SL and essentially not implemented on Opensim.
  • Starting a grid from zero is rough when you have virtually no edge over SecondLife, which has a 16 years headstart, content, and paid developers.

At the end of the day I don't think competing solely on price is realistic for an OpenSim grid, it would have to bring actual features and I suspect the price edge might disappear if they have to actually spend money on development and infrastructure.

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