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Sandra8675

By Sandra8675,
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steeljane42

steeljane42

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

My opinion is that even when free, Windows 10 isn't worth it's price.

Sure, we all have our opinions. I feel the same about MacOS (OS itself and pretty much everything Apple does) so wouldn't touch it again even if it was free.

3 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

And yet when LL did invest in creating a Linux viewer there were far fewer people using it.

As if investing into something ever was a good indicator. LL did invest far more into Sansar, too. Lots of money that could have been used on SL, viewer development and features. Including native Linux viewer support and not having silly 512MB VRAM limit on the official viewer (I personally don't care, since I don't use it, but some people do), as well as actually finishing revamping the cache system, not releasing half broken EEP and so many other things.

But that's what companies do. They invest into things, some because they promise good results, some for completely unknown reasons. And then they drop that if they see that investing into it further is just a waste of money and resources.

Edited by steeljane42
typos
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Gabriele Graves

Gabriele Graves

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

As if investing into something ever was a good indicator.

Well, you said this:

23 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Too low market share to bother with supporting it.

So I was pointing out that when that market share was much lower than now, LL felt it was worth the bother, so that statement doesn't fly.

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steeljane42

steeljane42

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

So I was pointing out that when that market share was much lower than now, LL felt it was worth the bother, so that statement doesn't fly.

It's still too low now, though. And the rest we can only speculate about. Maybe someone at LL thought the growth will be much bigger than it was, maybe the stats they have show that despite market share increase in general, SL has(had) less users on Linux than before (would be interesting to see some stats from TPVs, mainly Firestorm, but not sure they are allowed to share them).

It also could be the usual lack of developers/resources in LL, but for example Rocket League (a game) dropped Linux/Mac this year after having native clients for both for ~5 years. And it's not a dying game that no one plays, quite the opposite. And while it's a game, so can't really be compared with SL, it has Epic (17B$ capitalization from the last report) behind it, which definitely has more than enough resources to support anything they want. They chose not to, despite higher market share these days, so it's exactly the case of having too low market to bother with supporting it.

On that I'm going to leave this discussion, no point in repeating my opinion. Everyone are free to use whatever they like, Windows/Linux/MacOS/FreeBSD or whatever else there is, just no need to be surprised when the least popular versions gets dropped first for any kind of reason.

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Gabriele Graves

Gabriele Graves

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

It's still too low now, though.

You keep saying that like it's a truism.  Too low for who?  LL at this point in time, sure, LL in the future?  Who knows? focus changes, management changes, the technical landscape changes.  For other companies?  Some, clearly not all.  However many data points you bring out to show people stopping their development for Linux, there are far more companies writing software for it each year.  They wouldn't do that if your statement was true.  Microsoft has released their Chromium-based Edge browser for Linux just this week.

Your statement that it is too low to bother with is just your opinion too.  That's fine but that is all it is.

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Punnybone

Punnybone

Posted
Posted

Which alternate viewer is the best solution when inadequate video drivers are the reason you can't run the regular SL Viewer? I tried Singularity and ran into the same problem. So, I'm asking, which one/s can I use without the same issue coming up? TIA

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animats

animats

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Punnybone said:

Which alternate viewer is the best solution when inadequate video drivers are the reason you can't run the regular SL Viewer? I tried Singularity and ran into the same problem. So, I'm asking, which one/s can I use without the same issue coming up? TIA

"Inadequate video drivers"?

SL will run on machines that are way below the level needed for modern games. What computer do you have?

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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Punnybone said:

Which alternate viewer is the best solution when inadequate video drivers are the reason you can't run the regular SL Viewer? I tried Singularity and ran into the same problem. So, I'm asking, which one/s can I use without the same issue coming up? TIA

You can try the Cool VL Viewer.  It isn't on the list only because the creator didn't want to provide some of the private data that LL wants to be included in their list.  It is perfectly safe though - the viewer has been around for almost forever in SL.

Read about it here:  http://sldev.free.fr/

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Punnybone

Punnybone

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, animats said:

"Inadequate video drivers"?

SL will run on machines that are way below the level needed for modern games. What computer do you have?

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know much about it. All I know is it's an HP Compaq that we got thru Comcasts "Internet Essentials" program.( I tried calling Comcast to get more info about it, figuring it must be in my account history somewhere, but all that got me was endless recordings, robots, and dead ends. :( )

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animats

animats

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Punnybone said:

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know much about it. All I know is it's an HP Compaq that we got thru Comcasts "Internet Essentials" program. ...

Useful graphics resources:

 

 

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Punnybone

Punnybone

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, animats said:

OK, at this point you need more Windows help than I can give. Any Windows expert want to take over?

Are you at a current Windows 10 with current updates?

If he's getting 30FPS on the WebGL Aquarium, something is doing OpenGL reasonably fast.

Yes, it's Windows 10. And it does updates fairly frequently, so, afaik, it has all the current updates. 

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. :)

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KjartanEno

KjartanEno

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Punnybone said:

Which alternate viewer is the best solution when inadequate video drivers are the reason you can't run the regular SL Viewer? I tried Singularity and ran into the same problem. So, I'm asking, which one/s can I use without the same issue coming up? TIA

Assuming your video drivers are up to the task, what actually happens when launching the SL viewer? What happens when launching Singularity? FWIW, I use Singularity 1.87.8193 due to issues I have with the official release. You might instead use Alchemy viewer. I cannot help with Windows 10 issues.

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Punnybone

Punnybone

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, KjartanEno said:

Assuming your video drivers are up to the task, what actually happens when launching the SL viewer? What happens when launching Singularity? FWIW, I use Singularity 1.87.8193 due to issues I have with the official release. You might instead use Alchemy viewer. I cannot help with Windows 10 issues.

I get a similar message when trying to open the official SL viewer or any other viewer I've tried: "Second Life is unable to run because your Video Card Drivers did not install properly, are out of date, or are for unsupported hardware.  Please make sure you have the latest video card drivers and even if you do have the latest, try reinstalling them.

If you continue to receive this message, contact the Second Life support portal."

I also got some sort of message while downloading Singularity, saying that the graphics package couldn't be downloaded.

I'll give Alchemy a try. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

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Punnybone

Punnybone

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, panterapolnocy said:

Is it this error by any chance?

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_intel_fix_32bit

Also:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/technology/personaltech/checking-the-graphics-card-specifications-on-your-computer.html

Yes, it's an error message very similar to that one. Pretty much verbatim, other than "singularity" or "second life" in place of "firestorm".

I followed the instructions in that NYT article. Unlike what they said, it didn't give me "the brand of the graphics card and its memory amount listed", but it did say "Total Available Graphics Memory        1695 MB
                Dedicated Video Memory                          64 MB". 

If that helps any?

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animats

animats

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Punnybone said:

When I tried Alchemy, I got the following message: "This version requires a CPU with AVX support." :(

That problem just hit Star Citizen players.

AVX, Advanced Vector Extensions, means the CPU supports some extra instructions Intel and AMD put in back in 2011. But they're not in some newer low-end Intel CPUs. See this list on Wikipedia. This is called "product segmentation".

It's possible to recompile a viewer to run on CPUs without the AVX feature. The original poster clearly has working OpenGL, since he can run Aquarium in the browser.

You might try downloading and running the 32-bit version of Firestorm. Normally there's no reason to do that on a 64-bit CPU, but it's worth a try in this situation.

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