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Appropiating Culture in SL If you're a tattoo maker with ethnic products for sale, please read.


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Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That was a play on words... 

OOh French toast sounds devine right now.. With a side of bacon.

I know it was  Greece/grease and yes, make me some too please

 

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1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Comin right up. 4 slabs and 6 slices ok? Whipped cream and syrup or berries?

Air Fryer French Toast Air Fryer Recipe

Syrup, please.  Dangit!  We have no bacon.  

/me drools a little on her keyboard

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13 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Comin right up. 4 slabs and 6 slices ok? Whipped cream and syrup or berries?

Air Fryer French Toast Air Fryer Recipe

I wouldn't mind a bacon tattoo or a patterned shirt.

But I'll settle for a bacon 'stache.

baconface.thumb.png.4ef5496afccbb42031423bd7e9ebd8ff.png

Edited by PermaRuthed
added a picture
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While there are people on the internet who seem to cry "cultural appropriation" at everything (and thus turning it into a comical SJW thing that gets mocked), I think there is genuine merit to the concept itself. I believe at the root of the issue, it's about respect -- and respect should be given when using/borrowing from other cultures. Thanks to the internet, we all have more access and exposure to different cultures than ever before, and I think it's awesome to break down barriers and learn to appreciate each other, even incorporate each other's things into our own lives. But I believe its when people take aspects, symbols, language, etc from a culture with ignorance and disrespect that it can end up hurting that culture.

I for one had never heard of tā moko so it was really interesting to read OP's explanation! I think we just need to learn more about the people we borrow ideas and designs from. Maybe include a notecard with the item that has a fun little blurb about Maori tā moko, and maybe a link to learn more, or a link to a charity/donation for them. I think if we can all agree to respect each other and everyone's cultural traditions, then "appropriating" wouldn't be an issue anymore : )

That said, it sounds like there could be a potential business in SL for custom/unique Maori tattoo designs! I'm sure there are people who would be willing to pay a higher price for a totally custom design unique to their character's story! That would be cool as hell.

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On 10/22/2020 at 3:52 PM, Maitimo said:

Telling people "Don't steal use the sacred symbolism of MY culture" is an entirely different thing from telling people "Don't use symbolism of any other culture besides your own."

While some cultures do object to it (such as the Maori in the OP, as well as several Native American Nations), not all cultures do, it's certainly not a "one-rule-fits-all" situation.

And frankly, telling a person that only their own cultural symbolism is acceptable/good enough kinda smells a bit like racism in itself. 

Please explain the difference between "you can't use my culture" and "you can't use any other culture."

Why do you think it should be considered okay to use one culture but not another?

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8 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Please explain the difference between "you can't use my culture" and "you can't use any other culture."

1.  You can't use my culture - implies that they don't care what other cultures you appreciate, you just can't use their culture.

2.  You can't use any other culture - implies you can only appreciate your culture and no others.

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1 hour ago, LilNosferatu said:

I believe at the root of the issue, it's about respect -- and respect should be given when using/borrowing from other cultures.

   But respect is yet another cultural barrier. Heck, even within Europe you're likely to present poor table manners by simply crossing a border to the neighbours, even though we all consider ourselves 'western cultures'. In Germany you can't have your hands under the table, in Spain you can't drink water when eating soup, in France you can't put your bread on the table, in Germany and France you must fold lettuce rather than cutting it, in Sweden you must observe the turns at the smörgåsbord.

   Part of being respectful is to not hold everyone to your cultural expectations, too - which is probably as difficult as learning foreign customs for sure - but trying to meet each other halfway rather than zealously chastising anyone who eats sushi with a fork or walks into your home with their shoes on (which in Sweden is basically the equivalent of relieving yourself in the kitchen sink).

   Do I giggle when I see someone who've written FRNKRNURF in runes? Yes. Is it even more hilarious if it's tattooed into their skin? Hell yeah. Do I get upset that my ancestral heritage is being raped because someone thought the runes were cool enough to carve into their flesh? No, that'd be silly. "But Orwar, runes haven't been used for a millennium, it's too far back for you to care!" - no, runes were in fact used up until the 19th century in parts of Sweden. "But Orwar, you're a white, heterosexual man, you're inoffendable!" - that's both prejudice and a myth.

ULJ-jh1fx4ma7L6splwvmWXKewV4aAoPfwytffQu

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2 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

1.  You can't use my culture - implies that they don't care what other cultures you appreciate, you just can't use their culture.

2.  You can't use any other culture - implies you can only appreciate your culture and no others.

I understand this, it was a rhetorical question. If that's the point they're making, I completely reject it because of its hypocrisy.

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6 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I understand this, it was a rhetorical question. If that's the point they're making, I completely reject it because of its hypocrisy.

It is hypocrisy, and denying the other side of their culture...the European side, as there are no full blooded Maori in NZ.

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22 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Please explain the difference between "you can't use my culture" and "you can't use any other culture."

Why do you think it should be considered okay to use one culture but not another?

"You can't use my culture" is the owner of that culture asking for it not to be used. Such as for instance the OP in this thread.

"You can't use any culture" is someone with no claim to ownership of any of the cultures they're talking about.

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1 hour ago, Orwar said:

 Do I giggle when I see someone who've written FRNKRNURF in runes? Yes. Is it even more hilarious if it's tattooed into their skin? Hell yeah. Do I get upset that my ancestral heritage is being raped because someone thought the runes were cool enough to carve into their flesh? No, that'd be silly. "But Orwar, runes haven't been used for a millennium, it's too far back for you to care!" - no, runes were in fact used up until the 19th century in parts of Sweden. "But Orwar, you're a white, heterosexual man, you're inoffendable!" - that's both prejudice and a myth.

ULJ-jh1fx4ma7L6splwvmWXKewV4aAoPfwytffQu

I laughed so much thinking that someone paid for that tattoo over there.
Σ(Greek) = S(Latin), Π(Greek) = P(Latin), Φ(Greek) = F(Latin)
He actually wrote VSPF, VFDF, VFCF instead of Veni, vidi, vici or Ηρθα, ειδα, ενικησα.

Anyway whatever makes people happy.

Edited by Nick0678
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When you talk to a parrot, it does not understand what you say, and yet it remembers the sound, and repeats it without any further understanding. It is not performing some kind of theft, it is merely repeating a familiar sound it enjoys. I think you're setting yourself up to be upset when you expect that people are going to stop copying what they see or hear, because it's just a natural thing for humans to do.

I sympathize with the loss of income, but I think for things like that is why we have things like Intellectual Property rights, trademarks etc, you're never going to stop profiteers with an appeal to emotion especially in year 2020 where everything is an appeal to emotion people are just not going to be receptive to it and just think it's another one of those social justice loons making up new reasons why we're all horrible people again.

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Second Life was advertised like that: if you want to be "someone else" than who you are then come to Second Life and make yourself a new personality... Does it mean if you are sailor in real life you can become an architect or does it mean you can become someone with different skin color, gender, or even a non-human? Naturally it can be done wrong, the purpose is to to leave your comfort zone and explore new things...

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I'm sad that I read through this and saw so much blatant ignorance.

I am Samoan, full blooded. I've watched tribal tattoos get thrown all over Secondlife with absolutely no regard, no knowledge, and no willingness to explain the meanings behind any of them.

Now onto the more pressing subjects, does this mean I do not want my culture 'appreciated' at all? No, that isn't the case at all. It's a very simple concept, so I implore you all to delve into understanding it. Tribal tattoos in my culture, Fa'a Samoa, (The Samoan way), isn't just lying down to get tattooed by an artist. You have to earn these tattoos. So by all means, yes, I do mean do not go into some random tattoo parlor and ask for a tatau (tattoo), as that also isn't traditional. If you are going to 'appreciate' my culture, do it the correct way and the way we would honor it within our own culture. A tatau isn't just a tattoo, you are given the right and honor to have one by Samoan elders. No, you do not have to be Samoan, but if you truly want the tattoo, do it the right way and know the history behind why we get those to this day.

As for 'dreads' yes, they have been found 30,000+ years ago, you can all have 'dreads'. 'Locs' are an entirely different concept, as African Americans were shamed and insulted in regards to their hair, to the point that historically they were called 'dreads' as a slur. (Look it up, I am not a history book.)

You can become someone else, that's what Secondlife is. If you're going to become someone else for the fun and beauty of it, do some research and pay respects to the cultures you are 'appreciating', do things the right and traditional ways, etc. In those senses, nobody will be offended and we can all live happily as we 'appreciate' one anothers cultures.

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On 9/26/2020 at 10:39 AM, MelodicRain said:

Hardly a new issue.

I could literally go into Photoshop, spend 60sec typing 猪脑子 (pig brains), export it as a PNG, upload that into SL as a tattoo, and idiots will buy it cause "the characters look exotic".

When I lived in Korea, the most popular T-shirt among a lot of friends and people on the street said "My Boyfriend is in the Arny"

Being from San Francisco; I always just figured Arny was just a really popular guy who got a lot of action in the barracks.

 

(splitting the humor post I made apart from the rant one that follows)

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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Appropriation is a subject that kinda really ticks me off.

I'm multiracial, very very very very mixed - and I don't look like 'any' "race". My very act of breathing is an act of cultural appropriation against somebody...

Who's culture should I follow? I don't look like any of them enough to pass somebody's test...

In my life I have at times gone 5 feet this way and been abused for not acting 'this enough', and then another five feet and been abused for stealing something from that very culture I was just called out by the first person over...

Screw the lot of them, single-minded "this race must act and look like that" people...

The nappy curls of my natural hair, is an act of appropriation against one set of people because my tone isn't dark enough, or so a person even lighter toned than I has said to me (on an SL blog no less). The way I walk, the way I talk, the way I hold my glance, the faith I hold, the poverty I came from, the well-off status I now have, that I am too educated, that I was once not educated enough. If my avatar is too dark, is she is too light. Where I live, where I used to live...
- I've been attacked over all of it.

 

Because I'm mixed race and I don't fit into anybody's stupid little narrow minded racist box.

It's a global world people. Everyday, more and more of you give birth to people like me. We're replacing you narrow minded idiots.

And I'm to mad to stop living just because somebody thinks me being alive is appropriating the space of one of my ancestors or one of my inspirations they can't see on my skin.

 

"Appropriation" has become nothing more than a backlash against diversity masking itself as social justice when it's really a call for segregation.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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I dont get the butthurt at all. Not even a bit.
The world is quite large. There are hundreds of countries and nations, and even more ethnic groups. Thats way too much for a single person (in this case, the tattoo creator) to know any single detail about.

Im german, live in bavaria and got the typical german grandma name "Theresa". What do you think people joke about my name? And because there is a silly song from the 80s, and diary products, my name will often used to say something funny about tractors or about butter, or the all time classic "Mother Theresa".
Why not? Thats what people have stored in their minds.

Talking to a strangers and telling them where i come from, makes 80% of them mentioning the famous munich octoberfest (beer, party, throwing up), even though i live 160 kilometers away from, close to a city what has a huge history of fine gold-beating arts. Why would i expect anyone to know such details and pay attention to?

A little bit more serenity would do wonders...

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