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Why doesnt Slink Physique Male Mesh Body get the same love from clothes makers as some other brands?


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I had to take a couple of years off from SL, and when I got back, I wanted to get some new clothes and update my look.

 

However, I found pretty quickly, that my body, the Slink Physique Male Mesh Body, didn't have as many clothes available as some other bodies out there. When I bought it, it was doing great, but now it seems other bodies have taken over.

 

Anybody know why this is?

Edited by RobertEroicaDupea
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1 hour ago, RobertEroicaDupea said:

I had to take a couple of years off

Anybody know why this is?

The Slink body is older, and not very popular anymore because others came in and were more attractive to many users.
The smaller the userbase, the less creators will keep spending time on it to rig and design for a brand.
I think there are many clothes still available, just not as many at the new events, you'll have to dig on MP and inworld stores.
Don't think the older clothes are bad.. there isn't changing a lot last years, new items are mostly just copies or "more of the same" .

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Mainly just the change of the new. Signature brought out Gianni, the male fashion bloggers jumped on it, creators rigged for it, and people bought it. The SL mesh body part industry is always moving forward as creators come out with new things. It's happened in the female head and body market, too.

For the more mainstream male bodies it went roughly thus:

  • TMP releases the first male mesh body. Clothing starts to be sold with standard sizing/fitmesh and TMP rigs.
  • The Adam and Slink bodies are released. Slink catches more creator support. Clothing starts to include standard sizing/fitmesh, plus rigs for TMP and Slink. Some creators begin to drop the standard sizing.
  • Signature releases the Gianni body. Clothing starts to include rigs for Slink and Gianni. Many creators begin to drop standard sizing, although fitmesh lingers a while longer. TMP support - while still available - starts to wane considerably.
  • Belleza releases the Jake body. This is the point where everything changed. Jake is less 'always in the gym' than Gianni, and at this point a large number of creators dropped Slink support in favour of Jake. By now TMP support is mostly gone, as are standard sizing and fitmesh. At this point, many creators are rigging only for Gianni and Jake.
  • Signature releases the Geralt body. A few creators pick up on it, but it never achieves the level of support that Gianni did.
  • Meshbody releases the Legacy body. Here things take another big change. Legacy has a similar shape to Slink Physique, and that gets picked up by many guys who made the move to Jake (because of the lack of support for Slink). Creators start including rigs for Legacy, and we're now at the point where many creators are rigging for Signature, Jake, and Legacy.

However, as mentioned at the start of this post, the SL mesh body part industry is always moving forward. One thing I've noticed in the past couple of months is a small number of creators are beginning to drop support for Gianni and are rigging only for Jake and Legacy. This may seem surprising - since Gianni is constantly updated, while Jake is very slow to update and still has some issues - but having spoken to a few people I've been given to understand that rigging for Gianni can be tricky, as the body is 'double-rigged' to not only the position bones (e.g. arm length) but also to the volume bones (e.g. torso muscles). So, to rig correctly for Gianni involves twice the amount of work.

That makes sense to me, since I wear Gianni most of the time but have 'skinnied down' my arm and torso sliders to reduce the muscle volume, and I've noticed that some jackets and shirts make my arms look stick-thin, whereas others don't. The stick-thin clothing must be rigged to that second set of volume bones. The vast majority of my Gianni clothing doesn't do that, so clearly those creators don't bother with the additional volume bones.

I do share your sadness over the dropping of support for Slink. Siddean has always innovated, and always been at the fore of mesh body design. She was the first to release mesh hands, then heeled mesh feet. The first to release a BoM-only version of her body. To my eyes, her mesh hands for men are still the best in looks and haven't been equalled.

You will still find Slink-rigged clothing out there, and some big name creators are still offering it in their new releases.  But if you only shop at the big menswear events you'll mostly find support for Gianni, Jake, and Legacy these days.

That's not to say you can't shop at the major events if you want to continue wearing Slink. You'll be surprised how much clothing you can fit on a body it's not rigged for. It's only the more close-fitting items such as the shoulder straps of a tank top, the sleeve edges and lower hem area of a tight t-shirt, or the cuffs of a form-fitted shirt that really require the exact rig. A loose shirt/t-shirt, or a jacket? You should be fine with rigs for Belleza Jake, or even Signature Gianni. (You might also want to try any Legacy rigs.) I would advise you to ALWAYS try a demo first, check which body rig seems to fit the best, and then move around in the demo. Don't just sit on a pose stand; instead see what the clothing looks like as your AO runs through its various animations. That's when you'll spot any minor clipping that you might not see while in static T-pose.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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26 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

That makes sense to me, since I wear Gianni most of the time but have 'skinnied down' my arm and torso sliders to reduce the muscle volume, and I've noticed that some jackets and shirts make my arms look stick-thin, whereas others don't. The stick-thin clothing must be rigged to that second set of volume bones. The vast majority of my Gianni clothing doesn't do that, so clearly those creators don't bother with the additional volume bones.

Which seems a bit lazy to me. I've been using Avastar for nearly 4 years, and Blender for much longer. Copying the weights is simply part of the job any clothing rigger should know, and there's no extra effort to copy the volume bones, unless the rigger is ... lazy? I could think of other words. I've done some clothing for my own projects, but I do not consider my quality or sense of fashion good enough to sell for a wide audience. Even so, I do know how to push & pull vertices, copy weights, and fix joints for animations. If a clothing maker can't copy volume bone weights in Blender, then I have to wonder at their competence.

As for Slink, I've owned the body since 2016. It occurs to me that it was designed in an era when standard sizing clothing was fairly common, and so it conformed closely enough to the standard male body to take advantage of the available clothing. Whether one finds the newer bodies more attractive is always a subjective thing. My opinion on most male bodies is that they are silly with their bulging muscles and veins. At least Slink looks a bit more realistic to me. Support the creators who bring you quality products for the body you prefer. There is still a large amount of good clothing available for Slink.

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The answer seems simple to me. It's not the most typically attractive shape. Jake, Gianni and Legacy are all massive beefcakes (Gianni and Jake in particular) whereas the Slink is more "average but toned man".

Much the same reason as to why the Slink Physique and other modestly curvy bodies for the ladies aren't as popular as the more pillowy ones.

A huge chunk of residents opt for maximum sex appeal.

(for the record, as a woman, I by far prefer the slink... :P)

Edited by Cinos Field
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The same thing happened to Slink Hourglass and Physique, support has really gone down in the last year and a half. Its down to a couple creators at the big events. People love shiny in SL.

I saw a guy with a Slink body last week and he was wearing it. He looked really nice. You get used to seeing so many Gianni, Jake and Legacy bodies of guys you forget other bodies exist.

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I still like my Gianni body and I'll be very disappointed if creators start dropping it; though with Signature's recent price-hike I'm not surprised that it's losing popularity fast.

One of my alts has Jake, which is less muscular and does slim down pretty well, much better than Gianni does. Another alt has the Ex-Machina Davide body which is much slimmer and really lovely, it just has next-to-zero in the way of clothing support. On the other hand, Skell is right; male bodies are much more forgiving of fit and it's perfectly possible to wear a lot of clothing made for other bodies. My Davide alt usually ends up wearing TMP/Legacy fits, and sometimes Jake.

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27 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

though with Signature's recent price-hike I'm not surprised that it's losing popularity fast.

Just saying... during the Signature shopping event, all Signature bodies including Alice are on sale.

Alice is at 1500 L, the guys at 2750 L.

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As an observer of the bodies... Slink has a feature that ends up being a flaw. It has the male bits built in.

- But they are small and non-functional.

So... they're only good for display on an 'M' rated nude hangout where you want to look less endowed than the other guys - that's usually not a goal of most men.

I think I measured it once as a 2-incher... now many guys get bigger when they get erect, but that's a LOT of growth room needed and the shape is not that which you tend to see on a guy that 'expands'...

I imagine that, if it did have the ability to 'get to performance position' in almost all SL animations it would fail to enter... the animations we have for 'adult action' tend to assume a male of about 8-12 inches... what you might call "professional men"... Bigger than most guys...

I sized an alt with a bento bit to 7 inches, and he looked more than doubly endowed than the slink body did...

- The use case of this look is... missing...

And then there's always the risk that, because it's always there, your alpha setting will show it while you're sitting there in an office hour with a linden on a G-rated region...

 

These days guys either - don't do adult stuff so don't get a body that has such a part... or do do adult stuff so get a body that doesn't have such a part so they can buy one 'third party' that has all the 'utility' they need...

 

Maybe that wasn't the first thing on most guy's minds when slink was a thing... but it's the first thing I noticed when I saw guys with that body - "how will I make use of him in SL when that isn't working..."

I'm very particular about the animations so even though I prefer a LOT of motion, I still find myself discarding half the animations in any pre-gathered collection, and then buying 1 here, 1 there, and that 1 over there from other sets by my preferred animation shop (BodyLanguage) until I've got all the ones I want... and then doing it all over again a year or so later when I feel the need for a change. BodyLanguage does have some very still animations... but I'm at a loss to specifically name them as they're the ones I end up clicking next on.

 

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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The situation with the bodies is rather depressing.  My partner loves the Aesthetic body even though he doesn't wear it like a musclehead, but it's harder to find clothes for it.  I understand that people's time is valuable but I really wish there would be more offerings for other bodies, at least as one-offs.  If a creator can make a freebie, they can make a body for people with other brands.

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Thanks for all the replies :)

 

Yeah, I get it, not everybody wants to spend the time rigging for a mesh body, but I wonder how anybody knows how well a mesh body has been selling anyway.

Oh well, I did have a Jake that I bought a long time ago, and at that time, there weren't many clothes for it. I'll get it out of the closet now and try to update the skin and find clothes.

Thanks again!

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8 hours ago, RobertEroicaDupea said:

Oh well, I did have a Jake that I bought a long time ago, and at that time, there weren't many clothes for it. I'll get it out of the closet now and try to update the skin and find clothes.

Jake is on v2 by the way. Check to see if your Jake has an update. I gather it's also long overdue for an update also... Jake v2 came out while Nixon was still in office... O.o

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Haneru Qi said:

Every body but Slink bodies kinda look like that dude from the Applegate Farms commercials - to me, at least.  And agree:  we need more Slink fitments!  Applegate-cow1.gif

Yeah... one of the reasons male alts don't get much time from me - I like Bishonen looking men, not the body builder look...

 

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10 hours ago, RobertEroicaDupea said:

Yeah, I get it, not everybody wants to spend the time rigging for a mesh body, but I wonder how anybody knows how well a mesh body has been selling anyway.

That's part of it but I also heard there were some issues with the women's Slink body in that you had to have all the feet and hands to receive the updated version for free or something like that.  There are some people who feel they are ripped off if they have to pay for an update, which I agree with.  I think the BOM updates should all be free but then again it's just my opinion and I am not the creator of any bodies or heads.   So, maybe there were certain issues with the Slink male and updates also...?

As far as you returning now or people starting now, they can buy the BOM stuff now but those who had certain items before have to buy certain items again.

I think the male athletic and the swimming shape for the Legacy male body is the absolute sexist body but Legacy has had issues with no free updates also that people can and do get fed up with certain things.  

Maitreya gave us free updates for BOM as did Catwa.  I personally love Maitreya for the female and far less triangles, and I can get Maitreya to look very realistic in long shots.  However, for photography, I do think Legacy is pretty good but the male Legacy Athletic is far better than the female, imo, and a great one to have for photography for the males.  

Although with SL in the cloud and with BOM now, my computer performance is far better than it was!  So, maybe eventually Legacy with all it's million triangles will not be so difficult to run.  Yet, photography in SL is very, very popular.  It depends on what you want to do with your SL.  Clubs, mingling or photography for example.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

That's part of it but I also heard there were some issues with the women's Slink body in that you had to have all the feet and hands to receive the updated version for free or something like that.  There are some people who feel they are ripped off if they have to pay for an update, which I agree with.  I think the BOM updates should all be free but then again it's just my opinion and I am not the creator of any bodies or heads.   So, maybe there were certain issues with the Slink male and updates also...

 

This is not the case, for the record; the Slink Redux with BoM was a free upgrade. For all the body parts - and it also updated much faster than the competition.

Edited by Cinos Field
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6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

That's part of it but I also heard there were some issues with the women's Slink body in that you had to have all the feet and hands to receive the updated version for free or something like that

A redelivery of what you had resulted in receiving the Redux (BOM) versions of what you had, so if you had hands and only 1 or 2 of the feet types, that was what you received in the Redux (BOM) re-delivery - for free.   

You only needed to buy additional feet if you didn't already own deluxe feet set, and you wanted to have the hands and feet already attached to the Redux body (not having to separately attach them) and to have the functionality for them integrated into the BOM HUD for the body.  It was certainly not a requirement and did not have to be done at all, if someone had been happy before with having the feet and hands as separate attachables.  Otherwise, it was a nice little incentive to upgrade to the bundle version for a small cost - if desired. 

 

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1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

This is not the case, for the record; the Slink Redux with BoM was a free upgrade. For all the body parts - and it also updated much faster than the competition.

Oh, that's good to know.  If it wasn't the BOM update, it was the bundle then where you had to have all the hands and feet?  Because, what I heard is the hands and feet are now attached on the Slink...is that correct?  Anyhow, I'm not a Slink user...it was just said on the forum here that you had to have all the hands and feet for something?

It's also been said on the forum here with Legacy you have to pay for a whole new BOM body and I'm not sure if that is true or not or even if that has changed or what...?

EDIT:  Funny that, Moira you and I posted at the same time.  Thanks for giving more info on that.

I'm staying with Maitreya though.  I am confused in regards to all the hands and feet with Slink in the first place.  Plus, Maitreya is the one for me.  

As far as dudes, the best male body is the Legacy Athletic, swimmer shape.  Oh my gah, it's gorgeous that Legacy Athletic.   It's the highest triangle body though and rough to run; it depends on one's machine.  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It's also been said on the forum here with Legacy you have to pay for a whole new BOM body and I'm not sure if that is true or not or even if that has changed or what...?

With the new legacy bodies - you can apply BOM onto even a demo.

BOM is just an applied texture - so any body that allows appliers can allow BOM Compliance. being native BOM however - by removing (or having the ability to take off / remove) all the onion layers is another matter. I do not know if Legacy does this...

Maitreya 5.x+ and I gather Slink Redux both let you wear the body without any onion layers - unless I am misinformed about Slink Redux.

 

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18 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

That's part of it but I also heard there were some issues with the women's Slink body in that you had to have all the feet and hands to receive the updated version for free or something like that.  There are some people who feel they are ripped off if they have to pay for an update, which I agree with.  I think the BOM updates should all be free but then again it's just my opinion and I am not the creator of any bodies or heads.   So, maybe there were certain issues with the Slink male and updates also...?

That makes sense as to why people stopped supporting it. People felt ripped off....

 

Then went out and bought a 5000L body.

 

Seriously though. I upgraded when Slink started selling the hands feet and body in one package, so when they switched over to BoM I got everything. Putting on and taking feet off when you change shoes is super annoying. I hadn't thought about people not upgrading.

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Ah yes but Slink Female redux BOM is the ultimate combination which Slink had figured out some 8 months before others.
Some major brands STILL haven't implemented BOM in its most effective use.
Which is a good guide for my little RL business.
Even if you make a lesser product peeps will still flock to it lol. (which I don't). 

*woodywoodpecker laugh~! 🤪😜

Edited by Maryanne Solo
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The Slink Physique (female, obviously) was the first mesh body I bought. I love it. I much prefer its shape over the other major brands, and I even didn't mind the somewhat inadequate alpha cuts. And when the Redux came out, I embraced it enthusiastically, because it was so cutting edge in some ways. The biggest problem, I think, with the Redux is that they did not, initially anyway, supply an adequate range of alpha layers to replace the cuts, with the result that using it became a bit of a pain -- making your own layers, or finding old ones that would work. That's been alleviated a bit, since they've come out with new sets.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but I seem to be seeing more clothing rigged for Physique now than I did even a few months ago? It got to the point that I bought a Lara just because it was becoming impossible to buy new clothes -- but more and more, I'm seeing things rigged for the Slink, I think?

Am I wrong?

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On 9/17/2020 at 5:56 AM, Janet Voxel said:

That makes sense as to why people stopped supporting it. People felt ripped off....

 

Then went out and bought a 5000L body.

 

Seriously though. I upgraded when Slink started selling the hands feet and body in one package, so when they switched over to BoM I got everything. Putting on and taking feet off when you change shoes is super annoying. I hadn't thought about people not upgrading.

I'm not sure what you mean here Janet but I also didn't make myself very clear cuz I've been working 12 to 13 hour days so let me explain what I meant.

I meant for creators to upgrade.  Creator's probably have most of the bodies depending upon how their store is doing as it's a very competitive market for SL with around 20k items a week for new listings which is a lot.  So, if CREATOR'S have all the bodies, it would be quite an expense to pay for upgrades because some of us work for hobby style peanuts compared to the corporates here on SL.  So, when I said some may not want to pay for upgrades, I was speaking about creator's.  I can't afford all the bodies; I'm the hobby type creator.  I make Maitreya items exclusively and have just started making Legacy male.  

I mentioned the Legacy Men's Athletic Body swimmer shape as the best because it is.  It makes me 'ready' lol and no other male avatar mesh body in SL ever did 'that' to me before.  This mesh swimmer shape Athletic body is smoking hot.  I also mentioned it because the guy is new and can get the BOM version whereas I think people who had the Legacy before have to buy the BOM version without any kind of free update for it.  

I'm probably still not making much sense but as far as Slink, I never ventured into because I am confused by all the hands and feet.  In the future, when I have time, I will look into it but right now I just do Maitreya female and Legacy male.   Legacy female, maybe in the future too.  It's a lot of cost for creators.  

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