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Can a parent override LL TOS on minor dating adult?


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6 minutes ago, Kytteh Wytchwood said:

As for her using a child avatar, she uses the toddleedoo avatar. She isn't the only person who is a child avatar on the Moderate sim. The others are over the age of 18 but there could be more minors on the sim who play as a kid, that I don't know, who could be a minor in real life. This minor, whom I have made a thread about, told me it's not only an adult clan and implied there are more minors like her in the clan/ Moderate sim.

It is not against the TOS for child avatars (such as toddleedoos) to be on moderate regions (or even adult regions, if allowed by the region owner) as long as they are not involved in any sexual activity or situation. 

If you have good evidence that the person behind an avatar is under 18, meaning that they gave an incorrect birth year when creating their account, that is against the TOS and something that you can file an Abuse Report about - be matter-of-fact with your report, clearly stating the evidence that leads you to believe so - just the direct facts - and if you don't get the automatic response, submit it again.    

As far as the boyfriend and 'going on cam' with each other, unless that is happening in SL and you have proof that it was of a sexual nature, I don't know what you would expect LL to do about it.  Using a camera in general, when communicating over the internet,  doesn't in itself indicate sexual activity.

 

If you believe that the region owner is knowingly allowing RL underage accounts, and if the contents of the Discord communications/posts make you uncomfortable and the Discord community appears to condone that behavior you find problematic, then I'd suggest finding a different region and community to be involved with.  

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5 minutes ago, Moira Timmerman said:

It is not against the TOS for child avatars (such as toddleedoos) to be on moderate regions (or even adult regions, if allowed by the region owner) as long as they are not involved in any sexual activity or situation. 

 

 

Edited by Kytteh Wytchwood
accidentally wrote my reply in the quoted section
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I only brought up the child avatar brand because users were speculating in my thread about using an adult body to seem young. There is a huge difference between a young looking girl and a toddler avatar. 

Edited by Kytteh Wytchwood
hmm, somehow my edit didn't go through correctly and I now have 2 posts for 1 post.
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My first red flag would be a kid coming to SL and wanting to play as a kid rather than their own age or older.. Especially a teenage girl..

To me it comes off as an adult trying to play themselves off to someone else as they are an RL minor..

I mean it's possible that a teenage girl came to SL to play a toddler.. I'm just saying, in all my life, I've never met a teenage girl that didn't want to be treated older than they are..

Heck, I didn't even start lying about my own age in the opposite direction until I hit 30..No wait, I was 25, yup 25 at the time!!

hehehehe

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I had a look at your thread and i can understand your worry and frustration but things are very simple.

Regarding toddledoo or baby/teenage/minor looking avatars in general they are not allowed to participate in any sex related activities and of course if you see any you should report them, they are of course allowed to do everything else.

Regarding the part if the person controlling an avatar in SL is a minor or not, nobody knows and of course LL can't know either.
 
Linden Lab is not the Secret Intelligence Service so realistically speaking has no clue who is who except a credit card number or whatever paperwork (when necessary in order to enable specific features such as skill gaming, withdrawing funds etc) so If i can verify that this avatar is used by Prince William, Duke of Cambridge they will consider that his "Royal Highness" is behind the monitor acting as Nick0678. So don't expect much, you can only prove and report SL related activities that clearly violate the TOS.
 
If you do have very solid evidence that you are witnessing a crime (online grooming/predatory behaviors) you should file a very analytical report in your country's Cybercrime authorities and they will take the appropriate actions.
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Greetings all!

Linden Lab does not give permission to users to violate the Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions. Those are legal contracts between Linden Lab and each user.  Any user who states they were given permission to violate the Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions is mistaken. 

https://www.lindenlab.com/tos
https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

Second Life age requirements are 16 and older. Anyone under 18 but over 16 is not permitted on Moderate or Adult rated regions. 

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

2. ELIGIBILITY TO USE SECOND LIFE
2.1. Age Requirements for Use of Areas of Second Life

"Under 18 Users. If you are less than eighteen (18) years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if greater) and over sixteen (16) years of age, then you may access the General area of Second Life in accordance with our Content Guidelines and Maturity Ratings."


Child Avatars are absolutely permitted on any rated region, including Adult Rated Regions.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Child_Avatar

"Note that child avatars are allowed on PG, Mature, and even Adult public parcels, provided with the latter that they are adult verified."

Age Play is absolutely NOT permitted in Second Life. 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

"real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors are not allowed within Second Life."

If anyone believes that another user has violated any Linden Lab or Second Life policy, they are strongly encouraged to submit an Abuse Report so that the Governance Team members can investigate the report as quickly as possible. 

If you have submitted an Abuse Report you should receive a confirmation email to the email address on file for your account. If you did not receive a confirmation email you should check to ensure that the email address on your account is current and valid. If it is a current and valid email address, then check your spam folders as email from Second Life will sometimes be filtered as spam due to the sheer volume of emails that are sent out on a daily basis from Second Life. 

If you still do not have, or cannot find, confirmation of your report, then you should submit another Abuse Report against the user, just in case. 

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14 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings all!

Linden Lab does not give permission to users to violate the Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions. Those are legal contracts between Linden Lab and each user.  Any user who states they were given permission to violate the Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions is mistaken. 

https://www.lindenlab.com/tos
https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

Second Life age requirements are 16 and older. Anyone under 18 but over 16 is not permitted on Moderate or Adult rated regions. 

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

2. ELIGIBILITY TO USE SECOND LIFE
2.1. Age Requirements for Use of Areas of Second Life

"Under 18 Users. If you are less than eighteen (18) years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if greater) and over sixteen (16) years of age, then you may access the General area of Second Life in accordance with our Content Guidelines and Maturity Ratings."


Child Avatars are absolutely permitted on any rated region, including Adult Rated Regions.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Child_Avatar

"Note that child avatars are allowed on PG, Mature, and even Adult public parcels, provided with the latter that they are adult verified."

***** is absolutely NOT permitted in Second Life. 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

"real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors are not allowed within Second Life."

If anyone believes that another user has violated any Linden Lab or Second Life policy, they are strongly encouraged to submit an Abuse Report so that the Governance Team members can investigate the report as quickly as possible. 

If you have submitted an Abuse Report you should receive a confirmation email to the email address on file for your account. If you did not receive a confirmation email you should check to ensure that the email address on your account is current and valid. If it is a current and valid email address, then check your spam folders as email from Second Life will sometimes be filtered as spam due to the sheer volume of emails that are sent out on a daily basis from Second Life. 

If you still do not have, or cannot find, confirmation of your report, then you should submit another Abuse Report against the user, just in case. 

Thank you for your reply Dakota with the valuable information about TOS regarding this matter. I'll look for the email and if not found, I'll submit another AR.

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On 9/13/2020 at 6:32 AM, Nick0678 said:

If you do have very solid evidence that you are witnessing a crime (online grooming/predatory behaviors) you should file a very analytical report in your country's Cybercrime authorities and they will take the appropriate actions.

Unfortunately I don't have much proof, except for an mp3 file of the man singing and sounding older than 20 and information given to me by the minor about their activities outside of SL. I don't know if they have engaged in inappropriate sexual activity via images and video. I only know she bought an adult female biped furry to match him as he is a furry. Furries are usually more sexually active than regular human avatars. It's only speculation on my part on that. I was kicked out of the clan tonight. They went searching for any posts I have submitted on the forum, I was told, to see if I spoke about this situation Im guessing. One of the clan members who was stalking my profile here for posts I created, found this post and alerted the other clan members. Very weird and creepy.

I feel I was gotten rid of because there are more rl Moms in there, bringing in their rl daughters onto the Moderate clan sim. I don't know their daughter's ages but think they didn't want me to see any info shared in their discord, if they are minors.

The woman who told me this, about seeing my forum thread here and told me to get my belongings and leave, states she doesn't care about the relationship between the minor and adult. She also said to keep out of their business. Then stated she is now of legal age in her state for consent. I do know which state she lives in, through her and her rl Mom sharing their rl info through their clan discord server. She turned 17 early this Sept so it's now legal for her in her state, but SL has its own rules that doesn't have the same rulings as other state laws. She thought that was a valid reason for it to be okay. The man met her before she turned 17. The minor's acct is 4 mo old. She either has only been on sl for that short amount of time, or it's an alt and perhaps she knew him longer. Again, speculation. The facts, she was dating him at age 16. Yes it is frustrating when coming across this, especially when the real parent and the adults who band together as an sl family around this young girl, don't mind her relationship nor that she visits sims outside of G sims.

Edited by Kytteh Wytchwood
edit:added in more info
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On 9/13/2020 at 2:56 AM, Ceka Cianci said:

My first red flag would be a kid coming to SL and wanting to play as a kid rather than their own age or older.. Especially a teenage girl..

To me it comes off as an adult trying to play themselves off to someone else as they are an RL minor..

I mean it's possible that a teenage girl came to SL to play a toddler.. I'm just saying, in all my life, I've never met a teenage girl that didn't want to be treated older than they are..

Heck, I didn't even start lying about my own age in the opposite direction until I hit 30..No wait, I was 25, yup 25 at the time!!

hehehehe

I've only come across kids who want to be toddlers/ babies, that were 14 and under. I came from a game called smallworlds before I was told about SL. there was a large adult community there besides the teens. It was 13 and up but many under aged minors would lie on sign up. I reported countless accounts of children. they always feel guilty and have the need to confess their guilt to adults. 

Anyhow, it's very common for young teens and younger to play as a family, being a baby and looking for parents to spoil them with game products. 

I do agree with you that it's strange for a 16 yr old to want to be a toddler. Teens at that age always want to be an adult. I've come across many rl teens being adult avatars in SL and not being in G sims. again the guilt confessions in SL, while I did an AR with their info. 

I wish there were a way to make it where you have to enter credit card info and maybe have a check with the bank for authorization to access the game with the viewer. The bank check would alert the parents and prevent their child/young teen from accessing SL.

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17 minutes ago, Kytteh Wytchwood said:

I wish there were a way to make it where you have to enter credit card info and maybe have a check with the bank for authorization to access the game with the viewer.

...which would exclude a whole bunch of people, who come from cultures/countries where having a credit card is not the norm. Would have excluded me, for example, when I joined SL. SL had age verification years ago. Not for general acess, but for entering A rated regions. They tossed that away, probably for a good reason. And honestly, such messurements are over the top. I can't see how SL is supposed to be overrun by children and teenagers, when its actually more popular with an older userbase. And comparing SL to what else is on the web and what you get confronted with elsewhere (even when not going to adult sides), it seems weird to put up this kind of obstacle, that will be an obstacle for adult users aswell.

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M'kay ... A few things:

  1. You do not use 'tickets' to report Abuse, you use an Abuse Report
    1. You will receive nothing whatsoever concerning any action(s) taken as a result of your Report
  2. The only restrictions on Child Avatars concern particular content/context (which ends up as a censored phrase here in the forum)
  3. Linden Lab can and will do nothing about things which occur outside of their services
  4. Avatar Species is rather irrelevant to any of this
  5. No Account Holder below the age of 18 can access Regions rated above General - not if they were truthful when signing up
    1. More stringent Age Verification was attempted a few years back and then abandoned after a great deal of push back and other issues

I do hope you get the gist and I do not have to try and continue the above list.

File your Abuse Report and move on.

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In most countries, the dating age is 16 years old. Do we turn a blind eye in RL at this? No, we don't. There is not really a way to say you can or cant date at 16 or 18. It is up to the parents discretion however if a minor is younger to say whether they can or not play SL. If we started to judge every single little thing that was wrong in the world, you would get such a headache believe me. Perhaps we should focus more on the real issues at hand that are the most major to peoples lives. Building a better future for a better tomorrow, means sometimes we learn from other countries or states what their laws are or how they handle things. Solutions are needed , not more butting in to others private lives. People need a real way of living other than just made up stories.

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7 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:
On 9/13/2020 at 2:32 PM, Nick0678 said:

So don't expect much, you can only prove and report SL related activities that clearly violate the TOS.

That's not quite true. The Lindens have told us for years, when in doubt, AR it and let THEM decide if it's actionable or not.

I am sure Linden Lab will do whatever a corporation is able to do within the limits of it's product.

Anyway not much left to discuss about this thread, anything can happen, especially nothing. (worst case scenario a new account will be created)

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On 9/17/2020 at 7:51 PM, Solar Legion said:

M'kay ... A few things:

  1. You do not use 'tickets' to report Abuse, you use an Abuse Report
    1. You will receive nothing whatsoever concerning any action(s) taken as a result of your Report
  2. The only restrictions on Child Avatars concern particular content/context (which ends up as a censored phrase here in the forum)
  3. Linden Lab can and will do nothing about things which occur outside of their services
  4. Avatar Species is rather irrelevant to any of this
  5. No Account Holder below the age of 18 can access Regions rated above General - not if they were truthful when signing up
    1. More stringent Age Verification was attempted a few years back and then abandoned after a great deal of push back and other issues

I do hope you get the gist and I do not have to try and continue the above list.

File your Abuse Report and move on.

Actually you can if you want. Seems counter productive to using the abuse report in the viewer but there is option when creating a ticket for abuse reporting

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:37 AM, RowanMinx said:

No one is getting thrown in the slammer ffs.

Sadly, in real life, people ARE being thrown in the slammer and put on sex offender lists, for life, for being say a senior in high school that turns 18 yet continues to engage in sexual activity with their 16-year-old sophomore partner.  A month or two ago, it's just two horny underage teens.  But now, one of them is classified as an adult, so when parents find out what their sweet and innocent 16-year-old "child" has been up to, the 18 year old goes to prison for pedophillia, and when they get out they have to knock on all their neighbors doors and say, "Hi, I just moved into the neighborhood and am required by law to inform you that I'm a registered sex offender."  As I recall, such scenarios happen to POC more than their White counterparts, but I could be mistaken on that -- it was a while ago that I saw a documentary about that and other prison reform issues.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting first thread I read returning back to the forums. lol To the OP Ima say this. Sounds like a similar situation to a degree I and some friends were faced with and bottom line you can't control what other people do let alone what some idiot parents let their kids do. What you absolutely can do and should do is distance yourself from the situation as far as humanly possible and call it a day. I'd find new friends and use that block and mute feature your viewer comes with mate. If you got to question whether someone is old enough to be doing what ever it is they are doing on here and whether or not it is legal and/or a violation of the TOS then you already have your answer and personally speaking I'm not risking an account ban because of something someone did on a sim that I was on and even more importantly I ain't going to jail for nobody. lol So if I were you I would cut them people loose right now. I'm just saying. lol ;)

Edited by Velk Kerang
Corrections.
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/12/2020 at 5:09 PM, Kyrah Abattoir said:

You won't be updated on what happens after your report is treated due to privacy reasons.

I stated, automatic reply. That means, to automated, as in a system robot, sends me to no-reply email that my ticket was received. Automated. Created by code. I didn't say a fast reply. You don't associate the word automated to manual delivery by a human who types to you.

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On 10/7/2020 at 3:48 PM, Velk Kerang said:

Interesting first thread I read returning back to the forums. lol To the OP Ima say this. Sounds like a similar situation to a degree I and some friends were faced with and bottom line you can't control what other people do let alone what some idiot parents let their kids do. What you absolutely can do and should do is distance yourself from the situation as far as humanly possible and call it a day. I'd find new friends and use that block and mute feature your viewer comes with mate. If you got to question whether someone is old enough to be doing what ever it is they are doing on here and whether or not it is legal and/or a violation of the TOS then you already have your answer and personally speaking I'm not risking an account ban because of something someone did on a sim that I was on and even more importantly I ain't going to jail for nobody. lol So if I were you I would cut them people loose right now. I'm just saying. lol ;)

That is why I sent an AR on all 3 people involved. I didn't see the no-reply automated email in my inbox folder. Seems like no one is seeing that Dakota Linden responded to me. That means my thread is concluded and no more replies needed by the community.

I found out her account was deleted. 

I am not associating with this group of people.

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On 9/17/2020 at 1:51 PM, Solar Legion said:

M'kay ... A few things:

  1. You do not use 'tickets' to report Abuse, you use an Abuse Report
    1. You will receive nothing whatsoever concerning any action(s) taken as a result of your Report
  2. The only restrictions on Child Avatars concern particular content/context (which ends up as a censored phrase here in the forum)
  3. Linden Lab can and will do nothing about things which occur outside of their services
  4. Avatar Species is rather irrelevant to any of this
  5. No Account Holder below the age of 18 can access Regions rated above General - not if they were truthful when signing up
    1. More stringent Age Verification was attempted a few years back and then abandoned after a great deal of push back and other issues

I do hope you get the gist and I do not have to try and continue the above list.

File your Abuse Report and move on.

This post was not needed by you nor your attitude. Try reading the thread before replying. Try reading my initial post because you got it wrong. Automated reply, as in, the confirmation email my AR was received from in-world. I mentioned my ticket history, because it was completely wiped clean. The 3 people I did an abuse report on, were not there. I didn't see the confirmation email in my inbox. Since you refused to read my thread, you didn't see Dakota Linden reply to my thread. I'll be listening to her, not you.

I brought up the furry subject because she completely changed from her teen avi look to that of a sexualized avi. Influence from the man she was dating.

I know minors cannot access G sims. That is the main reason why I did an AR on her.

I was also concerned for her well being. 

Plus the clan has mostly over sexualized adults in it, wearing scantily clad clothing with plenty of cuddle furniture and adult furniture in people's personal rooms in the castle. 

She shouldn't have been there, and I reported her and the people involved.

I understand completely and you will not have to do another list as you are just a user, not Linden staff, who wrote in my thread.

Stop the attitude, the forums isn't the place for it, as per the community guidelines.

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On 9/17/2020 at 1:51 PM, Solar Legion said:

M'kay ... A few things:

  1. You do not use 'tickets' to report Abuse, you use an Abuse Report
    1. You will receive nothing whatsoever concerning any action(s) taken as a result of your Report
  2. The only restrictions on Child Avatars concern particular content/context (which ends up as a censored phrase here in the forum)
  3. Linden Lab can and will do nothing about things which occur outside of their services
  4. Avatar Species is rather irrelevant to any of this
  5. No Account Holder below the age of 18 can access Regions rated above General - not if they were truthful when signing up
    1. More stringent Age Verification was attempted a few years back and then abandoned after a great deal of push back and other issues

I do hope you get the gist and I do not have to try and continue the above list.

File your Abuse Report and move on.

I didn't clarify because I figured it was obvious.

All abuse reports must be done in-world first on the profile(s). Then you can submit a ticket with files to attach for proof against the party(ies) involved. That is where I submitted my proof of her rl age from the discord server. I had checked back on the tickets later on and I saw they were removed. Usually I get a no-reply email that my ticket has been closed. I didn't get that email nor had I gotten the confirmation automated no-reply email that my inworld AR's were received. Thus, Dakota Linden stated in my thread that it could have gone to my spam folder. She also stated if it was not found there, to submit another AR in-world. I spoke to someone who knows the people in the clan and she had told me the minor's acct had been banned by Linden staff. I already knew her account was deleted when I used an alternate account to search for her and only 1 group came up that she had created. Her account is gone. Don't be rude to people when you give feedback and re-read just to make sure you aren't misunderstanding. It seems a lot of people who replied to my thread, got confused about the word, "automated". I never said I expected a personal reply. I know that every AR sent inworld gets an automatic no-reply email to let me know my AR was received. 

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Hello all!

Thank you for participating in the Community!

Please file Abuse Reports if you find behavior that you believe violates Second Life's Terms and Conditions as stated previously by Dakota. Abuse Reports allow our Governance Team to investigate more thoroughly! You can find more helpful information about how to file Abuse Reports here: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/filing-an-abuse-report-r25/

Be kind to one another,

Obi Linden

 

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