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Now I have bought some land, I have a few questions...


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I recently changed my payment method from Paypal to a credit card, and I did not have to agree to anything (as in: "please provide us with gov approved ID otherwise you can't go further"), so it looks like giving money to LL is easy, it's the taking money away part that requires verification... LOL. Oh well, regulations are what they are, and at the end of the day, they are put in place to protect people. I hope.

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On 9/12/2020 at 11:47 AM, Chic Aeon said:

I switched to renting using lindens but not because of the savings. You CAN still rent cheaper than paying premium for tier -- if you shop around.

You can find some very good themed land, and some absolute nightmare estate land with horrid land lords. Just like - you can get amazing mainland and some very bad blighted spots (and none of us here are debating on that topic. Just on costs).

But in terms of cost, yes - the right rental can be cheaper.

What's been an issue for me has been than everytime I do this I eventually forget or am unable to log in at some key point and don't make the payment - and find my land has been taken back and rented out to someone else.

If there was a way to automate it, I might have considered estate land more seriously. Though at present I am good with the locations I currently have. If you can be sure to remember to pay the rental box, it's not a bad option.

A big bonus for premium is you can set it to automated payment and forget it - this can also be a downside. Explore the grid and you can find a lot of venues that seem to be paid for by people that have not logged in for years but who's accounts are not old enough to be those extremely rare 'lifetime free premium' accounts.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

If there was a way to automate it, I might have considered estate land more seriously. Though at present I am good with the locations I currently have. If you can be sure to remember to pay the rental box, it's not a bad option.

 

Well all of the rentals I have ever had (and that's a lot over the years) let you pay up to eight weeks ahead. Of course you are taking a chance that the land will still BE there LOL.  Before my personal ethics battle with Tilia I usually paid three days ahead of my due date. Now since money isn't really MONEY any longer for me, I pay my house and flat rentals a month ahead (hey all three for a month is $1200 lindens and I am staying there as much to be "supportive" as to have an occasional blog post backdrop with only a quick teleport ).  My sim I am always at least paid a week ahead.  I also always pay mine on the same DAY usually (say Friday) so it is easier to remember.  

 

I haven't ever lost a rental by not paying. They send you so many notices and I have those coming to my email. I HAVE paid for a week that I didn't use now and then when I decided to move on a whim (a not to unusual happening). 

 

My region is of course estate land. My residences are on mainland.    

Edited by Chic Aeon
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22 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I haven't ever lost a rental by not paying. They send you so many notices and I have those coming to my email. I HAVE paid for a week that I didn't use now and then when I decided to move on a whim (a not to unusual happening).

Yeah it's not a concern for most people, but it gets me every time. There is one rental I managed to not lose this way - but I should have, they gave me an extension - and some months later I left when they started remaking the design of the regions and then eventually went out of business (they rented somewhere between 10-20 regions without having a solid business plan outside of "people will rent these spots" - too bad because they had exactly the theme I wanted. Basically think of the 'Eden' estate regions but without the ban on Nekos).

If you're a tad forgetful of these things, or if your SL email goes to a giant spam box because 999 out of every 1000 emails are just telling you that DJ SpamsALot has 10 minutes left in the set... then you'd be in my boat and wishing there was an auto-payment system for these things...

 

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On 9/13/2020 at 9:44 AM, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Oh well, regulations are what they are, and at the end of the day, they are put in place to protect people. I hope.

In this case, it's to protect people from terrorists, Magnitsky Act-sanctioned thugs, large scale tax evaders, and other money launderers. The paperwork can be burdensome -- trust me,Tilia reporting is the very least of it -- but on balance, FinCEN is your friend.

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On 9/12/2020 at 2:47 PM, Chic Aeon said:

I think there was some misinformation (not this post) along the way up there but hopefully that will get sorted out.  So anyone not clear please double check :D.  

 

But I did want to reply to this idea in the first paragraph. While the stipend argument is often put forth by those that buy lindens, I have never purchased lindens and it still applies.  Back when membership was $72US (and some folks are still paying that for awhile) a 4096 with four avatars (not all me) paying premium cost in total $5.00 ish a  month depending on conversion value -- that is TOTAL not each.  When premium went up I did the math (this all based on YEARLY PAYMENT which I didn't see mentioned but VERY important).  It was still cheaper to do the "alt" method than to pay the land fee.   This if you never spend any of the stipend and then just convert to US and add a tiny bit (hopefully from earnings) and let your USD balance pay the tier. 

 

I switched to renting using lindens but not because of the savings. You CAN still rent cheaper than paying premium for tier -- if you shop around. So it also depends on what other premium perks you care about and if you really need COMPLETE power over your plot.  And if you want to agree to the Tilia documents too of course :D. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, with a correction here. Now that the Linden has been at 241 for cashout for a very long time, if you sell your Lindens ($300 per week or $1200 per month) and annualize your account, you will then get US $4.80 for your stipend which goes to paying what costs $8.25 a month annualized (disregarding VAT), your best rate. So it's not true your account "pays for itself". It pays what it pays -- $4.80 -- still leaving you with US $3.20 per month to come up with, or $38.40 per year.

The phrase that "the premium pays for itself" came about when the stipend was $500L per week and $2000 per month, not $1200.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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On 9/14/2020 at 4:26 PM, Qie Niangao said:

In this case, it's to protect people from terrorists, Magnitsky Act-sanctioned thugs, large scale tax evaders, and other money launderers. The paperwork can be burdensome -- trust me,Tilia reporting is the very least of it -- but on balance, FinCEN is your friend.

It's such a delight to me to see "Magnitsky Act" as something that is like a household word now, and not only passed as law in the US, but passed as law in many other countries and not just the EU, with that or a similar name. I worked on that for years and years when it was an exoticism and when we had to teach congressional aides about international human rights law and all the rest. John Kerry was a real brake on progress, as was Obama, both of whom tried to stop it,  and Kerry literally was the last vote "yea". 

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On 9/13/2020 at 4:05 PM, Chic Aeon said:

Well all of the rentals I have ever had (and that's a lot over the years) let you pay up to eight weeks ahead. Of course you are taking a chance that the land will still BE there LOL.  Before my personal ethics battle with Tilia I usually paid three days ahead of my due date. Now since money isn't really MONEY any longer for me, I pay my house and flat rentals a month ahead (hey all three for a month is $1200 lindens and I am staying there as much to be "supportive" as to have an occasional blog post backdrop with only a quick teleport ).  My sim I am always at least paid a week ahead.  I also always pay mine on the same DAY usually (say Friday) so it is easier to remember.  

 

I haven't ever lost a rental by not paying. They send you so many notices and I have those coming to my email. I HAVE paid for a week that I didn't use now and then when I decided to move on a whim (a not to unusual happening). 

 

My region is of course estate land. My residences are on mainland.    

I'm not understanding what you could have a personal ethics battle with Tilia *for*. It seems like just a service, like PayPal.

People often want to pay months and months ahead in my rentals, but one drawback to that is that if the Lindens set a sim back in time not exactly what it was in the rolling re-start, it can make the rental script refund only a month and not 3 months. At least the open source script that I have, Hank Ramos' script which has been revised a dozen times at this point. Perhaps Casper has solved this problem, I don't know. This behavior is not consistent enough to define as a bug and fix it; it doesn't always do that. Fortunately people have the record of payments in "my accounts" as I do, and they can get a manual refund.

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On 9/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, AdminGirl said:

Yeah I think I read that somewhere too and I think it's 72 hours. I'd play on the safe side as well. Knowing me, if I leave it for more than 30 mins, I'm likely to forget until it's too late!

I don't know if this is automatic. I do know that if you inadvertently (or deliberately, it doesn't matter) leave a group with land insufficiently tiered, a Linden will come in and tell you to cover that tier immediately, or your land will be seized.

Yes, it seems like the window is 72 hours. But if you have a lot of tier involved, they may appear sooner, within 24 hours. 

Either they spot check, or a panel comes up for them with an alert. If you are the owner of the group, you will see the red alert if you check your land menu

They want to discourage people from buying land by undertiering one group and then keeping it in a land sales group that they flip land with quickly after a purchase.

They discourage this practice by now requiring that you cannot bid on the auctions without sufficient cash immediately on hand, and they automatically tier you up if you win -- you don't get to wait or choose if you will tier up and abandon the auction.

But here is what the OP has to be careful with -- people who seemed like your friends or your good customers with whom you were in good communication, who suddenly dump their tier and disappear.

This can happen accidentally -- they didn't realize that happened when they didn't pay their bill after two months. If they are an individual owner, the land is automatically seized. In a group this process is not automatic but it still will occur. Or perhaps they had a crisis in RL and couldn't attend to their bills -- anything is possible. Now you as the group owner are responsible.

So once someone does that to your group, you are vulnerable. If you don't make a habit of checking your group menu frequently, someone could pull tier, and the next thing you know, a Linden is notifying you, or worse, if you weren't online to get their notice, your land is simply seized. So you have a 1536 group land and one 512 pulls out, a 512 will be arbitrarily taken -- unless you hurry to the website and buy the additional land to cover it. Or, if you are in a community situation, you are faced then with having to evict that deadbeat and look for a new tier donor. There is that risk and you have to stay on top of it because no one else will for you.

This discussion seems not to contain the other information that you do get a 10% bonus of tier on group land. So for 1536 you will automatically get 153 extra tier; for 4096, 409 extra tier etc. And that creates a buffer that -- if you have enough land -- will give you a safety valve in case someone pulls 512. Or you can use it to buy extra prim land.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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  • 1 month later...

This one time, not in band camp, my computer broke unexpectantly -- as opposed to the date I had pencilled in on my calendar for the power system to blow.  This caused me to be unable to play SL for several weeks, as I had to ship the machine to the manufacturer for repairs, then await its return.  During this time all my e-billing accounts went past due, from credit cards, to Second Life premium and tier fees, to my subscription to Hot Naked Pixel Chicks magazine.  All of these issues were swiftly resolved once I had my computer back.  Except one:  The place I rented.  The landlord fully understood my situation and would have given me the land back had it not been snagged by someone else.  Since then she's been looking for an automated rental system that gives a longer grace period for late payments, as she wasn't happy either about a robot deciding to evict people.

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